Just-Bought YBL-835GD

[Jhereg]

I was fortunate to visit Dillon Music on a day off, to try bass trombones.




I had a King Duo Gravis previously owned by Tommy Bridges. Yesterday at Dillon's I tried out the YBL-835GD and a Shires Q. I played for about 2 hours straight, and made sure to alternate both the 835 and Q with the King so as to not fool myself about what I was hearing. Both were excellent horns and much easier to play than the Duo Gravis. I was able to get more volume overall on the Shires, and was cleaner in the high register on the Shires. But the Yamaha had better and faster response for me personally and felt more centered. Overall I felt very comfortable on the Yamaha, and decided to get it. My only regret at the moment is that I didn't bother to try the YELLOW brass 835D that they had in stock (more on that below.)

Duo Gravis (left) and YBL-835GD (right)


Today I played the new Yamaha in rehearsal for Beauty and the Beast for the first time. Three different musicians came up to me unsolicited to say, "This one sounds warmer," which were the MD, trumpet, and violin. No one was complaining, they were just telling me the difference that they were hearing.

Buuuuut now I'm worried about it
Is it TOO warm? Too big of a change? Should I have tried the yellow brass version? Is this horn a good fit for this show?
Am I overthinking? (YES.)

Do you suppose the yellow vs gold brass would really have made THAT much of a difference? Or is it more likely simply the difference between two very different instruments? The King is definitely lighter and the brass seemed thinner, so I'd think that would contribute to lack of warmth compared to the 835.

Anyway, more details. I bought the Duo Gravis sight unseen, out of necessity. It's a very good trombone, the slide especially is fantastic. But I am pretty sure the previous owner made modifications to the horn which would help him as a tuba/bass trombone doubler. The first thing I noticed was that the receiver/leadpipe had been modified to take a tuba mouthpiece; my standard bass trombone mouthpiece was INSIDE the receiver all the way up to the decorative throat tooling. I don't think that's a standard Duo Gravis feature(?) He also said something about having had the slide shortened (yeah idk). Bottom line is, I'm a tenor player first and foremost, and small bore tenor at that, so even though I eventually got used to this horn it still always felt like I was fighting a lot to get the sound I wanted. I kind of knew that a new horn was somewhere in my future.

I've reached out to Yamaha to ask about purchase price for JUST a yellow brass cut bell section. Please note, I'm NOT going to buy one right now, just bookmarking the idea it in case the whole warmth thing turns out to be an actual issue.

As a final note, considering that Beauty and the Beast was a tuba/bass trombone doubling book for a very long time, I would think that warmth would be desirable for this show, providing better blending between myself and the French horn/tracked tuba.

I love my new bass, it is SO much easier to play that it is actually a relief. But I'm feeling insecure because I have little experience with assessing bass trombones (really wish I'd been able to bring someone to listed at Dillon's.)

Feel free to chime in with thoughts, opinions, expertise.

[Burgerbob]

I'd play it for a while and see if you actually have an issue with the sound. Might just take getting used to.

[jmjtrombone]

Trust yourself, in your playing and your decision to purchase the Yamaha, the musicians coming up to you to compliment your playing is affirmation that you made the right choice.

[Jhereg]

I'd play it for a while and see if you actually have an issue with the sound. Might just take getting used to.

Personally I have ZERO problem with the sound. I am worried that others might have issue, I guess. Which I realize is silly, but this is the best gig I've ever had and I don't want to make things hard for anyone around me.

[Jhereg]

Trust yourself, in your playing and your decision to purchase the Yamaha, the musicians coming up to you to compliment your playing is affirmation that you made the right choice.

Thank you for this. I have a lot of self-doubt and tend not to see compliments at face value, and I need to work on that. I'm sure if there were an actual issue with the sound change, the MD or audio dept would tell me.

Again, appreciate the affirmation. Apparently I needed some today.

[Fridge]

Quit overthinking this. Just play.

Fridge

[Finetales]

Not much is brighter than a Duo Gravis! The 835GD has a nice middle-of-the-road sound, appropriate for any setting. Definitely not too dark for what you're doing! But as it's darker than the Duo Gravis you're used to, you might need awhile to get used to what you're hearing out of the Yamaha's bell.

If you like it and the other musicians like it, worry not! I'm sure you sound wonderful on it.

[tbonesullivan]

Not much is brighter than a Duo Gravis! The 835GD has a nice middle-of-the-road sound, appropriate for any setting. Definitely not too dark for what you're doing! But as it's darker than the Duo Gravis you're used to, you might need awhile to get used to what you're hearing out of the Yamaha's bell.

If you like it and the other musicians like it, worry not! I'm sure you sound wonderful on it.

THIS. I think there is a reason some of the most well-known Duo Gravis players had the Silversonic version like Alan Raph. The regular yellow brass bell Duo Gravis is a very bright horn that can effortlessly peel the paint off of walls. I also believe it was designed with a deeper insertion depth and a "stepped" mouthpiece receiver for a more continuous taper through the mouthpiece and leadpipe.

Anyway, the Yamaha is a great horn, and if you like the way it plays, and people like how it sounds, I would say you're overthinking things.

[Jhereg]

Quit overthinking this. Just play.

Fridge

OMG a fridge is talking to me :p

(Seriously though you are right)

[Jhereg]

Not much is brighter than a Duo Gravis! The 835GD has a nice middle-of-the-road sound, appropriate for any setting. Definitely not too dark for what you're doing! But as it's darker than the Duo Gravis you're used to, you might need awhile to get used to what you're hearing out of the Yamaha's bell.

If you like it and the other musicians like it, worry not! I'm sure you sound wonderful on it.

Ah ok thanks! I knew very little about the DG when I bought it and didn’t take time to learn (was working a lot.) Didn’t know it was on the bright end of the bass trombone spectrum. Thanks

[Jhereg]

THIS. I think there is a reason some of the most well-known Duo Gravis players had the Silversonic version like Alan Raph. The regular yellow brass bell Duo Gravis is a very bright horn that can effortlessly peel the paint off of walls. I also believe it was designed with a deeper insertion depth and a "stepped" mouthpiece receiver for a more continuous taper through the mouthpiece and leadpipe.

Anyway, the Yamaha is a great horn, and if you like the way it plays, and people like how it sounds, I would say you're overthinking things.

Oh, great to find that out. Thank you for the insight! They are indeed two very different horns, then.

You are right, it’s overthinking and insecurity on an instrument that’s still new to me. The Yamaha feels significantly more comfortable and stable to play, so I’ll JUST PLAY. But appreciate y’all listening, and the reassurance.

[Burgerbob]

So I talked to your coworkers. I have a horn they all love, special price for you only $7250!

[pfrancis]

In my experience Yamaha feedback - behind the horn is a bit different. Amongst things I use regularly I have both a 613H and an 891ZD, they are great. Takes a moment to acclimate to either for me coming from my Shires large/medium bore tenor, but only a moment.

Trust your ears and the sounds you make on the new horn.

[Jhereg]

In my experience Yamaha feedback - behind the horn is a bit different. Amongst things I use regularly I have both a 613H and an 891ZD, they are great. Takes a moment to acclimate to either for me coming from my Shires large/medium bore tenor, but only a moment.

Trust your ears and the sounds you make on the new horn.

This whole “behind the horn” thing is new to me, thank you for that insight. I did read some other posts here describing that behind v in front sound. To me when I’m playing, it sounds direct and dense and projects well, maybe a little darker than others I’ve heard but the loud notes still crunch nicely.

The words my coworkers used today were “warm” and “broad,” and that worried me because I’d been looking for a more direct, more dense sound. But I think it is still those things in addition. I hope it is. It sounds and feels that way to me.

[Rusty]

I’m currently playing Beauty and the Beast here in Australia, and using a Yamaha 822g (gold bell) Doug Yeo bass, and it works great, the bass stuff leans more to the orchestral side so a darker warmer sound isn’t out of place. Using an 882 with yellow bell on tenor which also fits well.

The gold bell can certainly still be punchy and direct when needed!

[tbonesullivan]

Oh, great to find that out. Thank you for the insight! They are indeed two very different horns, then.

You are right, it’s overthinking and insecurity on an instrument that’s still new to me. The Yamaha feels significantly more comfortable and stable to play, so I’ll JUST PLAY. But appreciate y’all listening, and the reassurance.

No problem. "new instrument regret" is real, but if your fellow musicians like the sound, I'd say it's working out just fine. Much more important is that it plays easier for you than the other horns, and just feels better. That is ALWAYS a good thing, because it allows you spend less time fighting your instrument to get the sound you want.

[Jhereg]

I’m currently playing Beauty and the Beast here in Australia, and using a Yamaha 822g (gold bell) Doug Yeo bass, and it works great, the bass stuff leans more to the orchestral side so a darker warmer sound isn’t out of place. Using an 882 with yellow bell on tenor which also fits well.

The gold bell can certainly still be punchy and direct when needed!

Aww nice!! And hi!! It’s Adelaide currently, yes?

I’ve got an all-yellow Bach42A on tenor, but have had that for years so there’s no second guessing haha. It is great to hear that a similar model (and probably similar sounding) bass trombone is working for you. As everyone here has said, I gotta chill out and trust my own musicianship.

Thank you so much for this info, and hope you’re enjoying playing this show! Personally I love the reprises, but the Mob Song is also great fun on bass

[Jhereg]

No problem. "new instrument regret" is real, but if your fellow musicians like the sound, I'd say it's working out just fine. Much more important is that it plays easier for you than the other horns, and just feels better. That is ALWAYS a good thing, because it allows you spend less time fighting your instrument to get the sound you want.

I think they like the sound, I hope! It seemed that way

To be fully honest, playing the Yamaha is a relief. I feel so, so much more comfortable on it. And I need to trust that. Thanks again, I feel a lot better!

[LeoInFL]

I noticed from the Yamaha website that the 835/835G both come with a gold brass main tuning slide. Is a yellow brass tuning slide available? i think that would brighten your sound a bit (if down the road you want to experiment).

[Jhereg]

I noticed from the Yamaha website that the 835/835G both come with a gold brass main tuning slide. Is a yellow brass tuning slide available? i think that would brighten your sound a bit (if down the road you want to experiment).

That’s a good question, I will ask when they get back to me about the yellow bell flare (another option I was researching for future brightening-as-needed.) Thanks!

[sirisobhakya]

I noticed from the Yamaha website that the 835/835G both come with a gold brass main tuning slide. Is a yellow brass tuning slide available? i think that would brighten your sound a bit (if down the road you want to experiment).

You can just order the tuning slide of YBL-830. It is a drop-in replacement.

I don’t know whether a 835 can be ordered with yellow brass tuning slide from the get go, though.

[musicofnote]

Very interesting take - shows that different people can experience similar things differently, not better or worse, just differently.

When I was searching for a replacement for my 822g, I tried out 835GD, 835, Shires Custom and Shires Q (Q36GR).

Two different Q's and they both played the same, just the slide on the one was inoperable and the seller didn't want to even look at it "Typical demo instrument slide". That means, very even response from pedals up to high b-flat. The Shires Custom was like playing under a wet blanket - the sound just fell on the floor, refused to develop in the room. The 835 felt too bright and screechy with a similar response feel to the 835GD which had a very agreeable sound from pedals up to about f above the staff, but then the response there simply closed up, like I was unable to play g or above. The Shires Q's sailed up there up to c.

And the response from listeners was similar - more even body and uniformity of sound, not like I was switching horns between registers from bass to tenor to alto going upstairs. And now, after about a year, the initial stiffness in the valves is gone, the slide is now every bit as good as that old 822g slide was. Very happy. I too at first thought "maybe I could have gotten used to that 835GD", but now it's all good on the Q36GR.

[sirisobhakya]

I noticed from the Yamaha website that the 835/835G both come with a gold brass main tuning slide. Is a yellow brass tuning slide available? i think that would brighten your sound a bit (if down the road you want to experiment).

That’s a good question, I will ask when they get back to me about the yellow bell flare (another option I was researching for future brightening-as-needed.) Thanks!

As far as I see from the part search system, Yamaha only sells the entire bell, cut or non-cut, as one piece. I would also like to experiment with gold brass flare on my 835D.

[Jhereg]

Very interesting take - shows that different people can experience similar things differently, not better or worse, just differently.

When I was searching for a replacement for my 822g, I tried out 835GD, 835, Shires Custom and Shires Q (Q36GR).

Two different Q's and they both played the same, just the slide on the one was inoperable and the seller didn't want to even look at it "Typical demo instrument slide". That means, very even response from pedals up to high b-flat. The Shires Custom was like playing under a wet blanket - the sound just fell on the floor, refused to develop in the room. The 835 felt too bright and screechy with a similar response feel to the 835GD which had a very agreeable sound from pedals up to about f above the staff, but then the response there simply closed up, like I was unable to play g or above. The Shires Q's sailed up there up to c.

And the response from listeners was similar - more even body and uniformity of sound, not like I was switching horns between registers from bass to tenor to alto going upstairs. And now, after about a year, the initial stiffness in the valves is gone, the slide is now every bit as good as that old 822g slide was. Very happy. I too at first thought "maybe I could have gotten used to that 835GD", but now it's all good on the Q36GR.

I also noticed that above F, the Yamaha closed up. But the Shires Q was slow/fluffy on attacks compared to the Yamaha, across the register. This show has a lot of sfzp and fp pedals, I VERY MUCH don’t need to be questioning whether I’m going to get those each time they come up. In fact that was why I was trying to ditch the Duo Gravis; the tuba mods on it were making everything very hard for me, very conical-sounding. I wasn’t getting centered tone, at least not “behind the bell.”

So I decided to take the Yamaha despite the high register shortcomings. Either I will learn how to crack that with more time on the horn (or a different mouthpiece for high stuff) or I will meanwhile have what I need for this specific show, and a year or two from now when I’m a more experienced bassist I can visit other shops, try more horns, and swap for something that will better fit whoever-I-am as a player in the future. But for now, I needed something to bridge that gap and make it so I’m not having to exhaust myself just to get a clear crisp cylindrical-sounding hit. And that was the Yamaha.

I probably should have tried the yellow brass re: worrying about the gold being too warm, but everyone is right, that’s probably not what my fellow musicians were saying.

[Posaunus]

I also noticed that above F, the Yamaha closed up. ...

So I decided to take the Yamaha despite the high register shortcomings. Either I will learn how to crack that with more time on the horn (or a different mouthpiece for high stuff) ...

I probably should have tried the yellow brass re: worrying about the gold being too warm, but everyone is right, that’s probably not what my fellow musicians were saying.

What mouthpiece are you using for the Yamaha bass? Of course there is no universal solution, but a different piece might help you dial it in. Perhaps a quick consult with Doug Elliott? [My DE setup successfully addressed my bass trombone issue.]

Your "fellow musicians" hear what's coming out of the front of the bell. If they're happy, you should be pleased!

[Jhereg]

What mouthpiece are you using for the Yamaha bass? Of course there is no universal solution, but a different piece might help you dial it in. Perhaps a quick consult with Doug Elliott? [My DE setup successfully addressed my bass trombone issue.]

Your "fellow musicians" hear what's coming out of the front of the bell. If they're happy, you should be pleased!

I have a Warburton 1.5, just standard. I could try something smaller and see if I’m able to get those higher notice, if I end up on a gig where they are needed.

You see, I can’t take a compliment, so when three different musicians come up to me and say, “that one sounds warmer,“ I immediately start to worry whether it’s too warm, whether they are passively telling me they don’t like it, etc. I know it’s ridiculous and that both they and I will adjust to the horn, yesterday was only the first day with it after all. But I appreciated the reassurance from this group, really. I have trouble being confident, and sometimes external validation is helpful.

[BGuttman]

As smaller mouthpiece for you (basically a small tenor player -- based on your RBBB and Disney posts) you might find that the equivalent of a Bach 2G or even 3G will help the upper register; perhaps at the expense of the lower pedals.

On the other hand, a little rangebuilding could go a long way. I used Remington #8 with extensions to the arpeggios to be able to hit F5 on my King 7B with my LB 112/L/L7 setup (similar to the Yeo, but before the Yeo was a product).

[Jhereg]

As smaller mouthpiece for you (basically a small tenor player -- based on your RBBB and Disney posts) you might find that the equivalent of a Bach 2G or even 3G will help the upper register; perhaps at the expense of the lower pedals.

On the other hand, a little rangebuilding could go a long way. I used Remington #8 with extensions to the arpeggios to be able to hit F5 on my King 7B with my LB 112/L/L7 setup (similar to the Yeo, but before the Yeo was a product).

Yeah, I wouldn't care to use a 2G on THIS show, and the bass part does not go above I think a middle C. But if I end up keeping this horn for other gigs, I'd definitely want to resolve that issue. It's like others have said in their comments here, above high F the horn is like, "NO!" and literally just clamps up. The fact that so many people have experienced this (and across other posts in TC too) means it's definitely not just me and my sh*tty range

(It's certainly a factor but I AM going to split the blame with the horn!)

[mrdeacon]

I’ll throw it out there that the Warburton 1.5G has a larger .295 throat for a 1.5G. Might be worth tracking down a used Bach 1.5G or Schilke 58 and see how that feels. Both of those will have a smaller throat and the high register might be easier. Much cheaper experiment than buying a new bell or tuning slide.

I’m also a big fan of the Greg Black 1.5G and Symington 1.5. Great mouthpieces that I think are at the top of the heap for modern 1.5G’s!

[Jhereg]

I’ll throw it out there that the Warburton 1.5G has a larger .295 throat for a 1.5G. Might be worth tracking down a used Bach 1.5G or Schilke 58 and see how that feels. Both of those will have a smaller throat and the high register might be easier. Much cheaper experiment than buying a new bell or tuning slide.

I’m also a big fan of the Greg Black 1.5G and Symington 1.5. Great mouthpieces that I think are at the top of the heap for modern 1.5G’s!

Interesting, thanks! I'm sure I could find these around to try-before-buying, some Music & Arts carry Greg Black stuff (they always seem to have at least one bass mouthpiece.) Didn't know that about Warburton bass mouthpieces, thanks for that info.

[Rusty]

Yes! 2 weeks to go in Adelaide! It’s a great book and a lot of fun to play. Pretty monster horn and trumpet books too, so it’s very nice hearing the songs 8 shows a week.

Re mouthpieces, I would also second these suggestions, I have a Warburton 1.5G and it is indeed very open blowing and larger than most 1.5 sized pieces, and while the response is great, the sound felt a little hollow to me. The Symington 1.5 is a great balance of classic colour and character over the range and steerability and openness. The Greg Black 1.5G feels a little smaller in rim and blow. The Greg Black 1 7/16G is a little larger and more open, more in line with the Warburton, but with more core to the sound.

Doug Elliot also has some excellent options and is easy to dial in.

On my 822g on this show I’ve used either a DE MB 108/9, J cup and J8 shank, or the Greg Black 1 7/16G in regular weight. Everything is close mic so I feel I gravitate towards gear that you can still create plenty of excitement in attacks and colour of sound at close range, rather than what you might choose if you’re playing in a concert hall. This book has some serious low range in the bass part, with plenty of loud pedals and fp punchy attacks, and the sound designer wanted that to be pretty big, so the smaller 2G sized mouthpieces I sometimes use didn’t quite have the horsepower.

[tbonesullivan]

Interesting, thanks! I'm sure I could find these around to try-before-buying, some Music & Arts carry Greg Black stuff (they always seem to have at least one bass mouthpiece.) Didn't know that about Warburton bass mouthpieces, thanks for that info.

The Faxx 1 1/2 G mouthpieces are quite nice, and probably the cheapest on the market. They have the regular 0.276" throat. As a Yamaha bass trombone fan, I remember that the 835 series specifically worked to open up the valves and remove changes in bore diameter around the slide / bell section joint. You're used to a King Duo Gravis, which does have a much different response and also probably significantly more resistance, which in some cases can help high range.

[Jhereg]

The Faxx 1 1/2 G mouthpieces are quite nice, and probably the cheapest on the market. They have the regular 0.276" throat. As a Yamaha bass trombone fan, I remember that the 835 series specifically worked to open up the valves and remove changes in bore diameter around the slide / bell section joint. You're used to a King Duo Gravis, which does have a much different response and also probably significantly more resistance, which in some cases can help high range.

Makes sense (about the big difference between the DG and Yamaha) If I get my hands on a Faxx I’ll try it out.

[Jhereg]

Yes! 2 weeks to go in Adelaide! It’s a great book and a lot of fun to play. Pretty monster horn and trumpet books too, so it’s very nice hearing the songs 8 shows a week.

Re mouthpieces, I would also second these suggestions, I have a Warburton 1.5G and it is indeed very open blowing and larger than most 1.5 sized pieces, and while the response is great, the sound felt a little hollow to me. The Symington 1.5 is a great balance of classic colour and character over the range and steerability and openness. The Greg Black 1.5G feels a little smaller in rim and blow. The Greg Black 1 7/16G is a little larger and more open, more in line with the Warburton, but with more core to the sound.

Doug Elliot also has some excellent options and is easy to dial in.

On my 822g on this show I’ve used either a DE MB 108/9, J cup and J8 shank, or the Greg Black 1 7/16G in regular weight. Everything is close mic so I feel I gravitate towards gear that you can still create plenty of excitement in attacks and colour of sound at close range, rather than what you might choose if you’re playing in a concert hall. This book has some serious low range in the bass part, with plenty of loud pedals and fp punchy attacks, and the sound designer wanted that to be pretty big, so the smaller 2G sized mouthpieces I sometimes use didn’t quite have the horsepower.

Wonderful! Same, I’m enjoying all the crazy lines that the Trumpet and French Horn have. Trumpet especially has a lot going on in this show, switching between so many horns.

Thank you for the detailed descriptions of these mouthpieces! Some of them I likely won’t have access to or be able to afford for a while, and for now I’m going to stick with the mouthpiece I’m used to while I get to know this horn better. BUT as we travel around the country I am certain to have the opportunity to try different gear, and it will be great to have the Doug Elliott and Greg Black mouthpiece recommendations to reference so I can use that as a starting point. Really appreciate the specs and hearing your experience with those! Especially since we seem to have pretty similar equipment, I might gravitate toward similar gear as you.

[WGWTR180]

The sound you'll get accustomed to I'm sure. Once you get dialed in on the road with your sound setup you'll be good. My issue with these instruments is the weight with the cut bell. Remember you'll be doing 8 shows a week for quite awhile-I'd be more concerned about comfort.

[Posaunus]

Doug Elliot also has some excellent options and is easy to dial in.

On my 822g on this show I’ve used either a DE MB 108/9, J cup and J8 shank, or the Greg Black 1 7/16G in regular weight.

I'm not a "real" bass trombonist - just a regular tenor/bass doubler. So I've not tried (and could not afford) all these different bass trombone mouthpieces. My search for the best mouthpiece ended when I assembled the same DE set as Rusty: MB 108 (or 109), MB J cup, J8 shank. Works great for me!

[Jhereg]

The sound you'll get accustomed to I'm sure. Once you get dialed in on the road with your sound setup you'll be good. My issue with these instruments is the weight with the cut bell. Remember you'll be doing 8 shows a week for quite awhile-I'd be more concerned about comfort.

Believe it or not the Yamaha is significantly more comfortable than the Duo Gravis was to hold. It is certainly noticeably heavier, but the DG actually made my hand cramp painfully and my left thumb fall asleep. There was virtually no bracing support (and YES I did try both the NeoTech and that other squiggly leather/metal grip, which I own.) Additionally, if I had to hold the mute in with my left hand (sometimes necessary for quick mute changes) the rotor linkage would rest directly on my shoulder. I had to sort of hunch to prevent the rotors from opening on some mute changes, and this was incredibly uncomfortable. Others might not experience these problems with that horn, idk, but for me it was always uncomfortable and I just bore with it for lack of other options.

The Yamaha 835 is balanced so well that the weight doesn't even matter. Yesterday was our first full run of the show and twice I forgot whether I was holding the tenor or the bass because they feel so incredibly similar in my hands (my tenor is a Bach 42A.) The built-in adjustable brace on the Yamaha is a godsend, it is absolutely perfect and the triggers are exactly where I want them.

TL;DR it's SUPER comfortable for me compared to the Duo Gravis and I had no concerns in that department!

[Jhereg]

I'm not a "real" bass trombonist - just a regular tenor/bass doubler. So I've not tried (and could not afford) all these different bass trombone mouthpieces. My search for the best mouthpiece ended when I assembled the same DE set as Rusty: MB 108 (or 109), MB J cup, J8 shank. Works great for me!

Great to know! I will wait to recoup the money spent on the bass and then consider this mouthpiece (and will search for a used one) Thanks!

[WGWTR180]

The sound you'll get accustomed to I'm sure. Once you get dialed in on the road with your sound setup you'll be good. My issue with these instruments is the weight with the cut bell. Remember you'll be doing 8 shows a week for quite awhile-I'd be more concerned about comfort.

Believe it or not the Yamaha is significantly more comfortable than the Duo Gravis was to hold. It is certainly noticeably heavier, but the DG actually made my hand cramp painfully and my left thumb fall asleep. There was virtually no bracing support (and YES I did try both the NeoTech and that other squiggly leather/metal grip, which I own.) Additionally, if I had to hold the mute in with my left hand (sometimes necessary for quick mute changes) the rotor linkage would rest directly on my shoulder. I had to sort of hunch to prevent the rotors from opening on some mute changes, and this was incredibly uncomfortable. Others might not experience these problems with that horn, idk, but for me it was always uncomfortable and I just bore with it for lack of other options.

The Yamaha 835 is balanced so well that the weight doesn't even matter. Yesterday was our first full run of the show and twice I forgot whether I was holding the tenor or the bass because they feel so incredibly similar in my hands (my tenor is a Bach 42A.) The built-in adjustable brace on the Yamaha is a godsend, it is absolutely perfect and the triggers are exactly where I want them.

TL;DR it's SUPER comfortable for me compared to the Duo Gravis and I had no concerns in that department!

Well that's good. years ago I owned the #4 SS Duo Gravis prototype. Made a good amount of money with that instrument BUT, like you, I had issues supporting that thing for long periods of time. I sold it to some Kat in Japan. Glad the built in brace works for you on the Yamaha!!

[bassclef]

... my standard bass trombone mouthpiece was INSIDE the receiver all the way up to the decorative throat tooling. I don't think that's a standard Duo Gravis feature(?)

FWIW - that is a standard Duo Gravis feature, unfortunately.

When I was still playing one, I actually shipped the slide and two mouthpieces out to Bob Reeves in CA to have them re-shank them in a custom size that would fit that odd receiver taper. I gave up on it for this reason and many of the same ergonomic issues you mention.

I have enjoyed reading your thoughts on the 835. That's next on my list to acquire!

[Jhereg]

FWIW - that is a standard Duo Gravis feature, unfortunately.

When I was still playing one, I actually shipped the slide and two mouthpieces out to Bob Reeves in CA to have them re-shank them in a custom size that would fit that odd receiver taper. I gave up on it for this reason and many of the same ergonomic issues you mention.

I have enjoyed reading your thoughts on the 835. That's next on my list to acquire!

Ah, gotcha. I needed a bass kind of in a rush so I could start practicing for this tour, and didn't take the time to research the specifics of the model (other than reading some posts here which described it as a "commercial trombone" and "good all-around"...so I thought it would be those things.... )

I'm really appreciating the 835 and am looking forward to getting to know it better