Mouthpiece buzzing question

[BassboneJ25]

Not trying to open the debate of to buzz or not to buzz… to each their own!

I had a question about range and mouthpiece buzzing. Why can I play a C5 on a mouthpiece relatively easily but on my bass trombone, it is difficult? Thoughts from the hive mind would be nice.

[BPBasso]

Same issue in alternate positions?

[baBposaune]

Why would you want to buzz a C5 on the mouthpiece? I never buzz above F4 or G4 on the mouthpiece and I have no trouble playing a C5 on bass trombone.

Short answer, from the gut, is that maybe you are too tight or closed when you play the C5 on the horn.

Can you gliss from E4 in 7th position up to C5 in first?

[stevenvortigern]

Have you tried buzzing the C5 and then inserting the mouthpiece into the horn while sustaining the buzz? Does it feel different than if you attacked a C5 on the horn or got there from below via a scale?

[tbdana]

Okay, for us uneducated (well, me, anyway), what is a C5. Wouldn't that be a double-high C?

[GabrielRice]

Check the angle of the mouthpiece to your face when you buzz that high. Are you allowing the same angle to happen with the trombone attached?

[BGuttman]

Okay, for us uneducated (well, me, anyway), what is a C5. Wouldn't that be a double-high C?

C4 is "middle C"
C5 is an octave higher.

[stevenvortigern]

Another thought might be that you have developed a habit of using excessive pressure to get your high notes on the trombone. Since you are holding the mouthpiece in a different way when buzzing, you might not be applying as much pressure and consequently freeing up the lip tissue to vibrate more freely.

[harrisonreed]

Okay, for us uneducated (well, me, anyway), what is a C5. Wouldn't that be a double-high C?

It's from scientific pitch notation:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scienti ... h_notation

It labels each octave with a number, starting with C. This is a much better way of ensuring people know what note you're talking about, rather than using "Double-high C", or "soopah doopuh Bb", which is meaningless, especially to people who don't play your instrument. For a complete beginner C4 might be a "sooper-dooper high C". For a pro tuba player C5 might be a "high C".

C5 is an octave above C4, which is "middle C" on the piano, between the two major clefs, a term which almost everyone knows. F5 is generally where the trombone's range tops out, and that's the note where you said your trombone choir part went up to and stayed around. You've said you can easily play a Bb5, which is an extremely high note. As played here:

[tbdana]

Thanks. C4 is middle C. So is the F above C4 then F4? Where does it change over? Is it based on the piano keyboard?

Here all this time I was thinking it was based on the harmonic series of the trombone. Guess not!

[BGuttman]

Sad to say, it's not logical. The number changes at C. So C4 is Middle C (one line above the bass staff). The note above it is D4 and the note below it is Bb3.

[Doug Elliott]

The range around C4 is in a range of stronger resonance on just the mouthpiece... but on a bass trombone it's an area of weak resonance so you don't get any real reinforcement from the horn.

It's probably the beginning of the 2nd harmonic of the mouthpiece alone. There's sort of a break between about F3 and C4. So my guess is everything below that is a broad range of fundamental, and that C4 is the beginning of a range of 2nd partial resonance.

[davebb]

I think that it has something to do about how the instrument enables buzz at a wider range (both higher and lower) than the mouthpiece alone. i.e. the resonance of the instrument controls the "allowable" frequencies for the buzz. I asked chatgpt to explain the physics and I think it did a reasonably good job:
"The mouthpiece alone does not have a long air column, limiting the range of natural resonant frequencies (or harmonics) that can be produced. The full length of a trombone's tubing allows for a much broader range of resonant frequencies, enabling the production of a wider range of notes."

[AtomicClock]

Sad to say, it's not logical. The number changes at C.

Changing at C isn't logical? Seems pretty logical to me -- as good as any other note. Helmholtz thought so, too.

[BGuttman]

Sad to say, it's not logical. The number changes at C.

Changing at C isn't logical? Seems pretty logical to me -- as good as any other note. Helmholtz thought so, too.

Logical would be change at A. But as things developed, C became the sorta "center note".

If we were French, change at C (Ut) would be logical since their note names start there.

[timothy42b]

Okay, for us uneducated (well, me, anyway), what is a C5. Wouldn't that be a double-high C?

C4 is "middle C"
C5 is an octave higher.

I have a handbell choir, and middle C is called C5. But most of the ringers don't read music so it isn't really an issue.