Good First Alto Mouthpiece?

[Lhbone]

I recently acquired a studio alto trombone (JP236), and I was wondering what might be a good middle of the road mouthpiece for a student learning alto for the first time? The bore size is smaller than my personal dual bore alto. I believe the JP is .481.

This is my first experience with this horn and I was pleasantly surprised at the sound and evenness of it. Anyone else on a JP236?

[UATrombone]

IMO, one of the first option could be Yamaha 48A.
Designed for Alto, size is about Bach 6 1/2, what else is needed for students?

[CalgaryTbone]

Ultimate Brass also makes a mouthpiece (A1) that is very similar to the Yamaha 48A. Worth pointing out that both of these mouthpieces have a rim around the 6.5 size, but the cups are shallower and the throat and backbore are designed with the alto trombone in mind.

Jim Scott

[BrianJohnston]

JK makes good ones.

[MrHCinDE]

I‘ve suggested the Yamaha 48A on similar threads, I used this for quite a while on alto but recently changed over to a Bach Mt Vernon 12C. I didn‘t really like the 12C before but for some inexplicable reason now find it really easy to play with a light and mostly tuneful sound with my 36h.

[UATrombone]

Actually, there are a lot of good Alto mouthpieces.
As I see, almost any maker have them in production, but!
Are they

good middle of the road mouthpiece for a student learning alto for the first time

or not???
I don't think that many students could find good MV12C.
My personal choise for Alto is DE XTG103SR / C / CaltoS or LTG103 / C / CaltoS, because I don't like to change rims... But it definitely isn't "middle of the road".

[MrHCinDE]

Fair enough that not everyone has an MV 12C laying around but they aren‘t exactly rare and can be had for less those most boutique or custom setups. Doesn‘t have to be an MV, I think just about every trombonist has or can borrow a 12C and just give it a go, might work, might not.

[brassmedic]

Yamaha 48A.

[CalgaryTbone]

The OP is looking for something that will be used by University students who have never played Alto before, as part of their studies. I would assume most of the students would play a .547 Tenor, and would be playing something ranging from a 5 to a 3 rim on their Tenors. Many of them would have great difficulty squeezing their chops into an 11 or 12 rim. Their teacher is looking for something to get them started. Some more experienced Alto players lean towards small mouthpieces on Alto - others (including me) prefer to use the same rim as on their Tenor. There are some examples including the Yamaha that are kind of mid-sized for the rim - a good compromise for getting started. These students can buy a mouthpiece of their choice if they are going to further pursue the Alto, but something mid-sized will suit the most first-timers.

Jim Scott

[brassmedic]

The OP is looking for something that will be used by University students who have never played Alto before, as part of their studies. I would assume most of the students would play a .547 Tenor, and would be playing something ranging from a 5 to a 3 rim on their Tenors. Many of them would have great difficulty squeezing their chops into an 11 or 12 rim. Their teacher is looking for something to get them started. Some more experienced Alto players lean towards small mouthpieces on Alto - others (including me) prefer to use the same rim as on their Tenor. There are some examples including the Yamaha that are kind of mid-sized for the rim - a good compromise for getting started. These students can buy a mouthpiece of their choice if they are going to further pursue the Alto, but something mid-sized will suit the most first-timers.

Jim Scott

I disagree. Most beginners start on a 12C and have no problem "squeezing their chops in". If "same rim for everything" works for you, that's great, but I wouldn't force that mentality on students as the default. Starting on a mouthpiece that's too big for the instrument with the idea of switching to a smaller one later doesn't make any sense to me. Just makes it more difficult to make the switch.

[CalgaryTbone]

Brad - I didn't suggest same rim for all - the 48A, etc. is smaller than what most people play on a large tenor. It's just not as small as a 12C. I was suggesting a "middle ground" because of the situation that the OP presented. There's no way that one mouthpiece works for all, but if we're talking about having something in the case of a University-owned horn so college-aged players can get their first experience at alto, then a "medium choice" is best to have "in the case". If a student wants to really pursue the alto, then they should buy their own mouthpiece based on experimenting with the multitude of choices that people use to play alto.

My point was really that as often happens, the responses had shifted from the original question to reflect everyone's favourite personal choice on the alto. The OP was looking for a good generic choice to have available to let a student play their earliest attempts at alto. I would guess that some of those students, if they get serious about it, will choose anything from a 15E to a 3G rim on a smaller cup as their personal mouthpiece. That's as it should be, but the school can't supply 15 different choices. I think the 48A is a good mouthpiece and is also not expensive and will be a decent mouthpiece to get someone started. I stand by that.

Jim Scott

[MrHCinDE]

I stand by my comment that trying a 12C can‘t harm, don‘t get me wrong, the Yamaha 48A is also a very solid choice for the circumstances of the OP but almost everyone has access to a 12C and though it might not work for all, it‘s worth a try. As I said, might work, might not.

I didn‘t interpret that the OP was looking to equip a school, rather that they were looking for themselves.

[Kdanielsen]

I’d say one of the big questions with alto is whether to match your tenor rim or not. Maybe get two mouthpieces: one small one (12c or whatever. I liked 7c better) and one with a 4 or 5 sized rim but alto cup. This way your students can try to figure it out themselves.

[CalgaryTbone]

I stand by my comment that trying a 12C can‘t harm, don‘t get me wrong, the Yamaha 48A is also a very solid choice for the circumstances of the OP but almost everyone has access to a 12C and though it might not work for all, it‘s worth a try. As I said, might work, might not.

I didn‘t interpret that the OP was looking to equip a school, rather that they were looking for themselves.

Yeah - I could be wrong about that after reading it again. It's not uncommon for University music departments to own a few instruments for their students to use. Where I teach, I got them to buy a Bass Trombone many years ago, so that we could encourage a Tenor player to switch if that seemed like a better fit and if we needed a Bass for some of the ensembles. We actually ended up with 2 Basss, but that's a story for another time. Around the end of Covid, I got them to spring for a used .547 instrument, since I often get a first year player who only has a small bore, and could use a large bore for ensembles. It's meant to be a temporary solution, and I usually find that the student who has a chance to play one of those instruments for a semester or so has a much better idea of what to look for when/if they go to purchase their own. It's also good to have an instrument that a student can use if their horn is going in for repairs. etc., and for introducing a double to a Euphonium or Tuba player. I don't usually have mouthpieces provided with these instruments, but if I did, I would have something like a 5G and a 1.5G for them. Obviously, the student could "upgrade" if they wanted to, but they could start with that. That was how I was thinking about the Alto mouthpiece choice - something that most students could get started with, and change if needed with their own purchase.

JS

[brassmedic]

Brad - I didn't suggest same rim for all - the 48A, etc. is smaller than what most people play on a large tenor. It's just not as small as a 12C. I was suggesting a "middle ground" because of the situation that the OP presented. There's no way that one mouthpiece works for all, but if we're talking about having something in the case of a University-owned horn so college-aged players can get their first experience at alto, then a "medium choice" is best to have "in the case". If a student wants to really pursue the alto, then they should buy their own mouthpiece based on experimenting with the multitude of choices that people use to play alto.

My point was really that as often happens, the responses had shifted from the original question to reflect everyone's favourite personal choice on the alto. The OP was looking for a good generic choice to have available to let a student play their earliest attempts at alto. I would guess that some of those students, if they get serious about it, will choose anything from a 15E to a 3G rim on a smaller cup as their personal mouthpiece. That's as it should be, but the school can't supply 15 different choices. I think the 48A is a good mouthpiece and is also not expensive and will be a decent mouthpiece to get someone started. I stand by that.

Jim Scott

Sorry, I mistakenly read your post as advocating starting on a 3, 4, or 5 rim. I totally agree 48A would be a great starting point. I started with the 48A that came with my first alto. I tried other mouthpieces and never found one I liked better, so I still use the 48A.

[MrHCinDE]

Could be I got the wrong end of the stick also, always interesting to hear from music educators either way.