Contra Ranking

[EllaRubin]

I've recently gone down the contra rabbit hole, and have noticed some models such as the Lätzsch contra seem to be stand out options in terms of being the best of the best contras. I'm wondering if someone with a bit more contra experience could develop and rank (loosely) the top 10 or so contras. I know Lätzsch, Thein, Voigt, Leuchter, and so on make a good contra. Would love to see where people would rank them!

[Posaunus]

I doubt that anyone on TromboneChat has tried more than a few different contrabass trombone models, much less 10. (Are there that many?)

It will be hard to get an objective ranking.

How many contras have you play tested?

[EllaRubin]

I've tested a few. Voigt, two Theins, and a Leuchter (going to be purchasing the Leuchter).

I don't really want an objective rating, just a loose idea of what the top 10 are really.

[Burgerbob]

I am biased since I own one, but I rate the Laetzsch at the top.

Voigt makes a great contra with their new valves.

Rath and Leuchter are very good horns, play and sound like trombones. I'd be happy with either.

I don't like the theins. Big, woofy, uneven.

I'm sure I'm forgetting a couple other good playable horns, but after that they are not really worth considering imo.

[EllaRubin]

I agree about the Theins, more specifically their more modern one I tried. I got to try one of their older models previously and it sounded much better but played slightly worse imo.

For me I just can't seem to justify going half again more expensive for the difference in sound and playability between the Lätzsch, Thein, and Voigt horns over then Leuchter I'm looking at.

[MStarke]

I have spent quite some time on a Thein and played one or two other older Theins at least occasionally.
I also played ~1,5 years on a Lätzsch. Similar to the current models, but not yet with the carbon rotors if I remember correctly.

I also played very briefly on a Leuchter and maybe one or two other Lätzschs. Some of this is >10/15 years ago, so I don't remember it all in detail.

Out of these I would clearly prefer the Lätzsch. All of these are a bit different in character. I would probably prefer the Leuchter over the Theins. Of course these are individual instruments and personal impressions.

Now I own a one-time built contra modelled mostly after a Kromat example. Quite happy with it.

[tbonesullivan]

This isn't helping my desire to own a contra, and neither is the used Kanstul 1690 F contrabass at Hornguys. When in production they were quite well regarded.

[Burgerbob]

The Kanstul is... not great.

[Finetales]

I doubt that anyone on TromboneChat has tried more than a few different contrabass trombone models, much less 10. (Are there that many?)

Finke
Haag (2 models)
Helmut Voigt (3 models)
Jürgen Voigt (3 models)
Kromat (2 models)
Kühnl & Hoyer
Lätzsch (2 models)
Leuchter
Miraphone (technically 4 models)
Rath
Thein (3 models)
Wessex
Chinese Thein clones
Chinese Miraphone clones

If you also include used instruments you can add the Kanstul, Alexander, Conns, Brad Close customs, earlier Thein models, and all the various German opera model contras.

And there's certainly more (new and used) that I'm missing.

[EllaRubin]

This isn't helping my desire to own a contra, and neither is the used Kanstul 1690 F contrabass at Hornguys. When in production they were quite well regarded.

I've heard not so great things about the playability of the Kanstul.

[EdwardSolomon]

I don't like the theins. Big, woofy, uneven.

I have owned and played Thein contrabass trombones for over 20 years. They are anything but "big, woofy, uneven". That is absolutely not my experience. Your mileage may vary.

[Burgerbob]

I don't like the theins. Big, woofy, uneven.

I have owned and played Thein contrabass trombones for over 20 years. They are anything but "big, woofy, uneven". That is absolutely not my experience. Your mileage may vary.

I know there are great players and sounds on them (Brandt, Ben, etc), but I haven't played one that sounds like them. The van Dijk at ITF '23 was not a good instrument.

[EdwardSolomon]

With the best will in the world, trying an instrument at a trombone convention is not the best way to experience it. I have had the benefit of over two decades of experience with the Thein contrabass trombone (mine has Star valves) and can confidently state that it will respond well, as will any instrument, with the right mouthpiece and leadpipe.

I have absolute trust in the ability of my Thein to go toe to toe with any other brand and I have performed on it next to all manner of bass trombones, from Conn, Shires, and Rath to Thein, Edwards, and Yamaha. I know the manufacturer and have spent much time discussing the build process and how the instrument is customised for the needs of the individual. Trying a pre-built instrument at a show isn’t the full experience, any more than it would be for any other custom horn builder, such as Lätzsch or Rath. They would be the first to admit the same.

Your mileage may vary. I have only the greatest of admiration for the people behind the Thein brand and for the instruments they create.

[MahlerMusic]

And there's certainly more (new and used) that I'm missing.

Now rank them all from best to Miraphone BBb

[Johnstad]

I have been fortunate to try out nearly all of the models at 3 different ITFs.

Voigt (Jurgen) Lätzsch were the two I truly enjoyed.

1. They both play like a trombone
2. The timbre fits right between the bass trombone and tuba.

I play on a Voigt with the Voigt Free Flow valves. In my second year on this instrument. Haven’t regretted it one bit.

[jonathanharker]

Hi all, I would largely agree with Burgerbob and Ed Solomon here. I've played the NZSO's Thein (mid 1980s) and found it sounds magnificent – but it needed a bit more air than my Wessex copy of the Ben van Dijk Thein, and the valves were quite resistant.

My experience with the Wessex is that with a BrassArk leadpipe from Noah and plenty of lube for the knock-off Hagmann valves, it plays and sounds great. Certainly well enough, and cheap enough, for an ordinary mortal to be able to take a punt and learn how to play the damn thing, with almost zero prospects of a paying gig; but I've been making my own fun. It's tremendous playing it in a big band, for instance. It was £1600 + VAT in the shop when I was last in the UK in 2016, and at that price I couldn't really leave it on the shelf, given that all the German models are about ten times that price. Obviously, you will get a much better instrument, though.

I have been slowly going through brass instrument articles on Wikipedia, and when I worked on the contrabass trombone article I went and found all currently available manufacturers, listed in the references. There are only two outside of continental Europe (mostly Germany), namely Michael Rath (the R90 is a phenomenal instrument by all accounts, and if I end up getting gigs I'd probably get that one) and Zig Kanstul in LA, now ceased trading.

So if anyone has a moment, please have a read of the Wikipedia article and let me know if there's anything I've missed, or misinterpreted from sources. I'd be super grateful for any input from people who actually play the thing.

[deanmccarty]

When I decided to purchase a contra I tried all that I had access to. I played Rath bass trombones, so I tried Rath first, it was ok… but just ok. I tried Thein and didn’t care for it. I really liked the Lätzsch… but that pricetag . Then I tried Voigt… they have several models… their version with their open flow valve is fantastic. I’ve had it now for 4 years and love it.

[jonathanharker]

Then I tried Voigt… they have several models… their version with their open flow valve is fantastic. I’ve had it now for 4 years and love it.

Helmut or Jürgen?

[deanmccarty]

Jürgen