double tonguing for fun and profit

[jacobgarchik]

Folks, I have started a series about a subject close to my heart, trombone double tonguing in jazz and improvised music.

This post is the first in a series. When this series is completed it will form a manifesto of sorts, not quite book, not quite technical study, and longer than an essay. I hope to dispel some myths floating around the trombone world and share a technique that I think can help people take their playing to greater heights.
Feel free to comment here or on substack and angrily shake your fist or wag your tongue at me!

https://jacobgarchik.substack.com/p/dou ... and-profit

[tbdana]

Good job. You sound great! I didn't read every word (so many distractions here today) but I read most of it and listened to your playing. I like what you wrote and how you played. Loved what you had to say about fast playing, too.

I do a mix of soft-double and doodle tonguing. It depends on what register I'm in and whether I'm crossing partials up or down. I'm don't know anyone else who does it like that. I guess I'm just weird.

[LeTromboniste]

Folks, I have started a series about a subject close to my heart, trombone double tonguing in jazz and improvised music.

This post is the first in a series. When this series is completed it will form a manifesto of sorts, not quite book, not quite technical study, and longer than an essay. I hope to dispel some myths floating around the trombone world and share a technique that I think can help people take their playing to greater heights.
Feel free to comment here or on substack and angrily shake your fist or wag your tongue at me!

https://jacobgarchik.substack.com/p/dou ... and-profit

Great post!!! Very much agree with all of your myths busted. Very interesting to me that Steve Davis and Marshall Gilkes use this "da-der da-der" or "tere tere" articulation, which is severely underrated (and basically unknown to most brass players today), but really was one of the most standard ways of tonguing on all wind instruments for several centuries. Even as late as 1830 it's what a certain trombone method defined as "double tonguing" (not "tuku tuku"!) and the "main way of articulating on the trombone".

I do a mix of soft-double and doodle tonguing. It depends on what register I'm in and whether I'm crossing partials up or down. I'm don't know anyone else who does it like that. I guess I'm just weird.

I do domething similar, with the "tere tere" type of double, and doodle.

[jacobgarchik]

Thanks for the comments! It really is remarkable how many different approaches there are.

[jacobgarchik]

I've posted a second essay, comparing double tonguing and doodle tonguing in depth.

https://open.substack.com/pub/jacobgarc ... Share=true

[jacobgarchik]

I've posted a third essay, with thoughts on single tonguing, the threshold between single and paired, and first steps in double tonguing. I included some short jazz examples of myself playing at some threshold tempos contrasting single and double tongued approaches.

https://jacobgarchik.substack.com/p/dou ... ing-part-3

[jacobgarchik]

Part 4 is here, about the transition from straight exercises to swung, and pairing bebop and bebop-like tunes with arbans exercises.
https://open.substack.com/pub/jacobgarc ... medium=ios

[mgladdish]

Folks, I have started a series about a subject close to my heart, trombone double tonguing in jazz and improvised music.

This post is the first in a series. When this series is completed it will form a manifesto of sorts, not quite book, not quite technical study, and longer than an essay. I hope to dispel some myths floating around the trombone world and share a technique that I think can help people take their playing to greater heights.
Feel free to comment here or on substack and angrily shake your fist or wag your tongue at me!

https://jacobgarchik.substack.com/p/dou ... and-profit

I've only read the first post so far and it's already a great read. Your early response to Fontana et al was identical to mine, if anything I had an even stronger revulsion to it.

[jacobgarchik]

I've posted Part 5, where I talk about improvising with Coltrane-like Isorhythms to practice repetitive tonguing patterns.

https://jacobgarchik.substack.com/p/dou ... ing-part-5

[AtomicClock]

Steve Davis and Marshall Gilkes use this "da-der da-der" or "tere tere" articulation

I don't understand "tere tere". I don't get an articulation of any sort with the (English pronunciation of the) -re syllable. I tried Googling the Italian pronunciation, but all I got were descriptions of a rolled R (which I cannot do). Is it the same as "da-der"? That is at least something I can attempt.

[LeTromboniste]

Steve Davis and Marshall Gilkes use this "da-der da-der" or "tere tere" articulation

I don't understand "tere tere". I don't get an articulation of any sort with the (English pronunciation of the) -re syllable. I tried Googling the Italian pronunciation, but all I got were descriptions of a rolled R (which I cannot do). Is it the same as "da-der"? That is at least something I can attempt.

It's not an English R, that for sure doesn't make an articulation. It's a (single-)rolled R, like in Spanish "tres".

Actually that word, without the s (so "tre") perfectly illustrates just how fast one can articulate with this style of tonguing. There doesn't even need to be a vowell between the T and R for there to be a note, just the short moment where the tongue starts flicking backwards, after the T comes out but before the tongue seals again briefly for the R, makes a very fast note. Chain those very quickly together, "tretretretretre" and you get a string of very fast notes.

[jacobgarchik]

Part 6 is about double tonguing the vocabulary of J.J. Johnson.

https://open.substack.com/pub/jacobgarc ... medium=ios

[timothy42b]

I don't understand "tere tere". I don't get an articulation of any sort with the (English pronunciation of the) -re syllable.

Somewhat off topic, but I was watching a reel yesterday about pronunciation of with, voiced th vs unvoiced, and how it varies across different regions.

The speaker mentioned the American "r" sound, and attributed it to the large number of immigrants from Scotland and Ireland that arrived in the early days of the US. 1650 to 1730 or so, IIRC. (Our choir director has never forgiven them.)

[Wayne]

I don't think any written syllable is particularly useful if a player applies their standard regional pronunciation to it, (And the syllable wasn't notated by someone with the same accent...) or adheres to one strike slavishly for all articulation situations.

Paying closer attention in the last couple years I've realized that most articulation (including the "k/g/r/le" parts of various multiple tongue patterns) happen quite a bit further to the front of the mouth than in normal speech, but also will migrate within that area as necessary.

Most players probably also use different contact points with their tongues in playing than in speech. That is, more on the tip or back from the tip as anatomy dictates.

The best for pedagogy might be to explain to students that all the t's, d's, k's, g's etcetera are just broad guides to basic placement of the articulation. The exact strike/release point needs to be found by listening to the results, not by following a transcribed speech sound. That strike, along with the overall motion of the tongue will vary depending on range and dynamic.

[jacobgarchik]

yes, well put. I use specific areas in the tongue and mouth as descriptors rather than speech sounds. See Part 3, specifically about single tonguing. https://jacobgarchik.substack.com/p/dou ... ing-part-3

"For G, in the bottom of the bass clef, and below, the tip of the tongue touches the upper lip and top teeth. This technique is also used for other registers when a very hard tongue is required. For low Ab and above the tip of the tongue touches the top teeth. For legato tonguing the first note of a phrase is a “ta” and subsequent notes are “da” with tip of the tongue on the roof of the mouth (the alveolar ridge)."

etc