Marine Band Cancels Concert

[CalgaryTbone]

They voted against an idiot...

I find this comment to be ignorant and racist. This trope is what MAGA trots out to paint every powerful black woman with, along with the word "nasty." Idiot, nasty, DEI, unqualified and ignorant are the most common terms slung at such women. But let's look at the facts, shall we?

Harris graduated from Howard University with dual degrees in economics and political science. She then attended the University of California, Hastings College of the Law, where she served as president of the Black Law Students Association. She earned her Juris Doctor degree in 1989 and was admitted to the California Bar the following year.

Harris then entered the workplace and served as an Alameda County Deputy District Attorney, then San Francisco County Assistant District Attorney, where she became the chief of the Career Criminal Division and prosecuted homicide, burglary, robbery, and sexual assault cases – particularly three-strikes cases.

Harris then ran the Family and Children's Services Division in the San Francisco City Attorney's Office. She then served two terms as District Attorney of San Francisco from 2004 to 2011. She also took appointed positions at the state Unemployment Insurance Appeals Board and later the California Medical Assistance Commission.

Harris was then elected District Attorney for San Francisco County and served two terms.

In 2008 she became Attorney General for California and served two terms, heading the largest state AG department in the country.

After that she ran for United States Senator and won, carrying all but four counties in the nation's largest state.

In 2020 Harris became Vice President of the United States.

In every, single position she held she racked up "firsts." First woman, first woman of color, etc. She broke down barriers at ever stage of her career.

Unlike the current president, she has no arrests, no indictments, no felony convictions, never stole classified documents, didn't go bankrupt 6 times, never found liable for fraud or sexual assault, never incited an insurrection, never falsely claimed an election was rigged against her, never tried to overthrow the government, never coddled up to dictators, and never abandoned our allies....just for starters.

And what is your resumé, Sgt. Mayo, to give you the knowledge and experience pass the judgment of "idiot" on such a highly educated, experienced, and accomplished minority woman?

I just bristle at the false labels constantly being hurled at Harris and other women -- especially women of color -- who are political opponents of MAGAs. They have nothing but ad hominem attacks for strong minority women, which reveals a bias and a very common bigotry.

Please do better than this.

[MStarke]

As an American living/working in Canada, I'd like to take a second to call out TromboneVan's post attacking another chat member's post because as he said - "he's Swiss/Canadian and can't vote here". Trump has inserted himself in Canadian politics regularly, and Elon Musk recently travelled to Germany to literally insert himself into their election.

Thank you. I have and will build and express my opinion on American and other countries' politics also when I cannot vote there.

We are living in an interconnected world and have to arrange not only with the sh.. our own governments are doing, but also with others.

And the US have a very strong history of getting involved in other countries politics. Some with very good reasons and intentions, some maybe not so much.

[tromboneVan]

Is being VP to the most corrupt President in history (46) an accomplishment?

[tbdana]

Is being VP to the most corrupt President in history (46) an accomplishment?

You know that kind of ad hominem only works among your fellow MAGAs, right? The rest of us have, um, let's just say a "more accurate" understanding. And when you say "most corrupt," you invite comparisons to Trump and Nixon, and the GOP doesn't come out looking very good.

May I suggest limiting your posts to generally recognized facts and leaving the political nonsense claims aside? We all understand that you think everything about Trump is simply amazing and everything about every Democrat who ever lived is failed and corrupt and hates America. Yeah, we get it. You don't need to keep repeating it.

But to answer your question without the ad hominem, yes, being Vice President of the United States is a huge accomplishment. (And I wonder why you ignored all of the other accomplishments I listed? That's a rhetorical question, it's not one I expect you to throw yet another ad hominem at).

May I politely request that you stop responding to me? Like, at all? Or if you feel you must, would you do us all the favor of leaving your political slogans out of them? Thank you so much.

[tromboneVan]

Honestly, it's a very white movement.

I appreciate black MAGA Patriots out there like Terence. He has very upbeat, good energy, I think you might like him.

https://x.com/w_terrence/status/1892658882142404651

[tbdana]

Sigh...

Okay, I guess I just have to block you, then. The one and only person I have ever felt the need to block.

Buh-bye...

[atopper333]

Would’ve been content to stay out of this, but it’s kinda like watching a train wreck. I believe that’s why we avoid political discussions.

I don’t really care how much more enlightened one side is, left or right, Republican or Democrat, what have you, this thread has turned into nothing but the consistent perpetuation of party politics from either side with no true listening or productive discussion occurring.

No one wants to change their opinion (rooted in bias no matter which sides politics you choose to perpetuate), have a free, open and factual discussion, or much less listen. I’m just waiting for the name calling to start next…surprised it hasn’t yet in all honesty…

I honestly believe there is nothing good coming from this discussion at this point, and it’s sad to see the amount of ‘interest’ in the form of posts this particular has produced in as little time as it has produced…

I honestly feel it might not be a bad thing for the moderators to lock this one up at this point…

[tromboneVan]

Tbdana, you're already on my ignore but you keep tagging me... so you get what you dish out... Black MAGA has every right to occupy this space as much as it does the White house, if your idiotic nonsense mainstream media talking point lies do.... for the most part you are the one tagging me and I try to talk in a little more respectful way to people than I think you often do here, as much as you preach all that.

[musicofnote]

They voted against an idiot...

I find this comment to be ignorant and racist. This trope is what MAGA trots out to paint every powerful black woman with, along with the word "nasty." Idiot, nasty, DEI, unqualified and ignorant are the most common terms slung at such women. But let's look at the facts, shall we?

Harris graduated from Howard University with dual degrees in economics and political science. She then attended the University of California, Hastings College of the Law, where she served as president of the Black Law Students Association. She earned her Juris Doctor degree in 1989 and was admitted to the California Bar the following year.

Harris then entered the workplace and served as an Alameda County Deputy District Attorney, then San Francisco County Assistant District Attorney, where she became the chief of the Career Criminal Division and prosecuted homicide, burglary, robbery, and sexual assault cases – particularly three-strikes cases.

Harris then ran the Family and Children's Services Division in the San Francisco City Attorney's Office. She then served two terms as District Attorney of San Francisco from 2004 to 2011. She also took appointed positions at the state Unemployment Insurance Appeals Board and later the California Medical Assistance Commission.

Harris was then elected District Attorney for San Francisco County and served two terms.

In 2008 she became Attorney General for California and served two terms, heading the largest state AG department in the country.

After that she ran for United States Senator and won, carrying all but four counties in the nation's largest state.

In 2020 Harris became Vice President of the United States.

In every, single position she held she racked up "firsts." First woman, first woman of color, etc. She broke down barriers at ever stage of her career.

Unlike the current president, she has no arrests, no indictments, no felony convictions, never stole classified documents, didn't go bankrupt 6 times, never found liable for fraud or sexual assault, never incited an insurrection, never falsely claimed an election was rigged against her, never tried to overthrow the government, never coddled up to dictators, and never abandoned our allies....just for starters.

And what is your resumé, Sgt. Mayo, to give you the knowledge and experience pass the judgment of "idiot" on such a highly educated, experienced, and accomplished minority woman?

I just bristle at the false labels constantly being hurled at Harris and other women -- especially women of color -- who are political opponents of MAGAs. They have nothing but ad hominem attacks for strong minority women, which reveals a bias and a very common bigotry.

Please do better than this.

Edited to add: BTW, I've worked with Harris and I have a deep dislike for her. But to call her an idiot? And a puppet? You should be better than such adolescent and bigoted nonsense.

EXCELLENT. I refused to answer to someone stooping to ignorant name calling. Glad you did. Responding to such idiots just unnecessarily spikes my blood pressure.
(fubar noted)

[Digidog]

I appreciate black MAGA Patriots out there like Terence. He has very upbeat, good energy, I think you might like him.

https://x.com/w_terrence/status/1892658882142404651

Well; posting a couple of pictures with some black people showing their support for Mr. Toupee, is not evidence of the absence of racism on Mr. Toupee's, and his administration's, behalf. Quite the contrary: To have the need - and enforce that need - to especially and explicitly point out how including you are, can in itself be an act of racism - or be a lithmus indication of racist views and attitudes.

You should not forget, that historically there were patriotic (maybe German nationalist) jews voting for Hitler in 1933, tricked and decieved by his lies about making Germany great and take back its place among the greatest of nations and powers. Though they were not in any significant numbers, they got a brutal awakening when they were subject to discrimination and racism immediately after Hitler had secured his power; measures that later escalated to repression and deportation, and ultimately mass murder.

If I were an african-american citizen of the U.S. today, I would be very concerned about my situation, my safety and my prospects - regardless of how loyally and publically I had supported Mr. Toupee, or not.

One very important thing to know, is that politicians mean to do and politically pursue what they say; especially on totalitarian and violent politicies. Mr. Toupee and his lackeys have all used phrasings and whole sentences taken from Nazi propaganda, Nazi leader's speeches and ideological pamphlets, and they would not have used any of these sayings if they did not mean to apply their meaning onto the U.S. population and society.

[tbdana]

I honestly feel it might not be a bad thing for the moderators to lock this one up at this point…

I agree.

[tromboneVan]

When you speak the truth, and make an argument with facts, you do not have to censor people.

[Burgerbob]

When you speak the truth, and make an argument with facts, you do not have to censor people.

trombonEvan, you have not presented those here. You are not being censored, in any case.

[tromboneVan]

I do not think we should be engaged in closing threads whenever there is a disagreement - and by disagreement, I mean an opposing point of view that challenges the narrative is made. But that is the playbook of the left.

[atopper333]

When you speak the truth, and make an argument with facts, you do not have to censor people.

As someone who hasn’t taken either side in this conversation….

You say you speak the truth, is it your truth? Is it a collection of facts you’ve obtained through various information sources which have an inherent bias which supports your view? Is it information fed to you based on the algorithms of your previous search history providing for you what you already believe the truth to be?

Have these facts been actually vetted? Or is this yet an another extension of ‘moral relativism’ which allows a person the ability to say ‘the truth is’ based on their own inherent bias?

It works on both side of the isle, yours and theirs. Objectivism in America has been lost which has moved the left farther left, and the right farther right, which has had the effect of moving the middle farther way from the center and both sides of the isle so to say.

This comment indicates no room for discussion or growth which is in line with multiple other comments made in this thread from multiple contributors. This is yet a further point as to why this tread is no longer productive and should be locked….

[atopper333]

At the very least we have opinions and then we disagree on the particulars.. I do not think we should be engaged in closing threads whenever there is a disagreement - that is censorship is my point.

I agree with you, but when it is reduced to blatant arguing and no room for discussion, then what is the point? You aren’t changing their minds, they aren’t changing yours…

And then the response is you have the truth and they do not, but the very inference of this statement indicates that those who do not agree with you are…liars.

What productivity is there in this?

Are we calling ending an argument ‘censorship?’

Arguments when everyone ceases to listen are a pointless endeavor and almost always devolve into something even more base…

[LeTromboniste]

I'll remind everyone that the world doesn't revolve around the US, that discrimination (based on race, gender, sexual orientation or otherwise) is worldwide, that DEI initiatives don't only exist in the US, and that we get to have an opinion on these issues whether or not we vote in your country...

You are the most dismissive person on the forum, who has drank the most of the kool-aid, yet, look at the representation of minorities in your ensembles. Are they represented or not? Is it simply that you don't have a large demographic of minorities in your country, in early music even less, right? See you can't make people out of thin air, they have to exist in the fist place to be taking the auditions to be in the audition pool to be considered.. in the same audition as everyone else. People want to be treated equally. It's actually a form of abuse to coddle. Do you not see how your bias jumps off the screen? You come off as a screeching ideologue, and a hypocrite because you don't walk the walk with your own ensembles. I see less than 50% female representation in your groups, too. That is another topic you were very vocal about. But are you just a theorist or do you ever practice your racial / gender theory? It's very clear who the real racists and sexists are, because all you focus on in every forum conversation is race and gender.

I'm pretty much done posting on here because everything's been said, and I figure this thread is probably just about to get locked by the mods. I just feel I need to quickly respond on the pointed attacks posted against me personally here. I note the very on-the-nose irony in tromboneVan complaining earlier about being treated badly on this forum when nobody did anything more than debate his positions, but instead of arguing against (or even acknowledging) the facts offered, preferring to now slander fellow forum members.

The ensemble tromboneVan seems to refer to had 9 main cast members, 4 of which were women. I've lead projects where 80% of the cast was LGTBQ+, and some where that number was 100% (I'll also point out that there's a difference between chamber music, where a few long-time colleagues that are a good match decide to start a group together based on years of collaboration and mutual trust, and a situation where one is hiring people). I will add that every single time I get asked to recommend trombone players for a project, I make it a point to ensure half or more are women. And if the project already involves a man plus myself, and there's only one more slot to fill, I will only recommend women. The people I regularly recommend for work includes women, gay people, trans people, people of colour (mostly Asian and South American; unfortunately we do have a problem with the pipeline with regards to black people, there are so few in classical music more broadly, so very few stumble upon our niche field. Which, by the way, is exactly why we need MORE of the kind of activities this thread was initially about, and not to see the few that exist cancelled). I know I've been passed over at times (and in some cases, un-booked from projects) in favour of hiring woman, partly for the sake of inclusion and diversity. I'm happy they get the gig and that I get to play in a much more welcoming and diverse environment than the modern trombone world. So yes, tromboneVan, I do apply the principles I talk about, thank you very much. You can stop stalking me now and go back to reading your regular propaganda diet.

[tromboneVan]

People are allowed to voice their perspectives here if you are, and my comments specifically have been to give voice and space to Black Americans that believe in the shared vision of Making America Great Again... what people have against that I do not know.

[LeTromboniste]

Never tagged you directly in anything, did I? Nope. I guess you took that part as if it was directed at you specifically.

Oh don't be disingenuous now. You really think people are stupid? Who else in this thread (or on this forum) might you have been talking about, who's in the early music field and who you refer to as "Swiss-Canadian"...

Also, if you're going to make pointed attacks like this against specific forum members, don't be a coward and sign them with your name. Good bye.

[BGuttman]

We have strayed too far from the original subject and this thread is starting to look like the old political threads we had on The Trombone Forum, which we wanted to avoid. This thread is locked,

[BGuttman]

I know I locked this thread, but the original concert was sort-of put on with the winners of the audition and retirees from various Military Bands under the auspices of CBS 60 Minutes. Here's the story: