XO 1240L vs. Getzen 1052FD -- comments?

[ghmerrill]

I've recently sold my euph and tuba and am committed to bass trombone. I'm also finding that I seem finally to be up against the limits of my Chinese Schiller 7B clone -- which can be summarized by "somewhat tedious and unpleasant double valve register". Looking around, my two primary candidates at the moment are:

1. An XO 1240L, lightly used and apparently with a couple of minor "cosmetic" issues.
2. A Getzen 1052FD, lightly used, some minor cosmetic issues in the finish.

Both are well-priced for me and (only $50 apart!). Both are from reliable sources with 1 week trial periods. One offers a warranty service of a couple of years (though it's hard to imagine actually taking advantage of that -- given shipping costs). It looks like either one would be a good choice for me.

I'm kind of leaning towards the Getzen, although I can't really say why -- maybe it's the whole Edwards vibe. I'm mildly concerned about getting an aftermarket lead pipe for the XO (should I want one, and that's certainly not clear) because of the peculiar threading approach they seem to take. I'm sure that either horn would be more than fine for me. Well, ... pretty sure. I'm a little concerned about weight/balance, and can't get a handle on what that difference would be -- it may require just trying it out.

I'd appreciate any insight (especially based on experience) you might offer on this choice.

[atopper333]

I have owned a large bore XO, a 1236RLO, not a bass, but from my experience with that and the other two XO horns I have…aftermarket availability for things such as lead pipes seemed sparse with the stock threads.

Beautiful horns to me, very well made with excellent build quality. Solder joints and construction were quite solid. I will say this, to me, the 1236 was the heaviest large bore tenor I have owned. Balance issue, actual weight, don’t quite know, but I know it felt heavy. I have heard that said about the 1240 which would mirror my experience on the 1236, but I’ll leave that to people with direct experience with that horn.

[ghmerrill]

Yeah, in general (over the decades with several different instruments, brass and woodwinds) Jupiter seems to have retained a reputation for relatively heavy products. For me it's (probably) not so much the overall weight, but the balance. It appears that XO includes a "removable gold-plated counterweight" with this instrument (and in fact includes a "three-piece balance counterweight system" with some other horns as well). While this seems like a great thing to do (I expect to have to use a counterweight -- I do on my current Chinese clone), it may be something of a concession to an inherent weight issue. Impossible to tell with trying it, of course.

[Kevbach33]

I vote for the Getzen (I mean...).

It's very nicely balanced and not terribly heavy as far as basses go. No counterweight is really needed, at least for me.
You can more easily get aftermarket pipes in their threading (fine thread).
Not so dark that you can't be heard in a big band without blasting, but can be used in many other applications without fuss.
Use the inherent resistance in the valve section to your advantage, and the valve notes pop right out. Don't call it stuffy.
If you need it more open, you can change the slide for the custom series dual bore. (Edwards slides do not fit, but Conn slides do.)

The Elliott mouthpiece in your signature would be perfect for big band work (my Pickett 1.5S is about the same size, maybe a bit smaller inner diameter). But Getzen basses also work well with deeper cups, so I hear.

Does the Eterna come with all 3 pipes, or just the #2? Do you know?

I'll let others chime in on the XO.

[Burgerbob]

Both are very good horns.

[ghmerrill]

At this point, for a few reasons, I'm getting set on going in the Getzen direction.

[Tooloud]

I play the dependent XO: Great sound (MP: Schilke D 6.0), very well built - but heavy. I use a thumb- and handrest simultaneously, so weight is bearable. the valves are fine and cause no problems. Just the right amount of resistance, so that I can sustain deep notes as long as needed, while with axials I have to breath more often.

[ghmerrill]

One horn I came across (The Mighty Quinn) was a Jupiter 1180S for only $3,000. It might be interesting and I was somewhat tempted to try it, but (a) I really can't face dealing with an (unlacquered) silver finish, and (b) It has the 10" bell which -- in my experience -- is like hanging a boat anchor off the front end. I'm curious why the price is so low (possibly because of the 10" bell and silver finish ) and who is using silver horns? Is this a thing where most of the sales are to school bands?

[SlideCrook]

Used Getzen resells faster than Used XO. I like Getzen Eterna Ergonomics better.

[Aznguyy]

I haven't played on the XO but the Getzen is an excellent horn. it's a shame they don't offer it with 3 leadpipes anymore.

You also also have an option of finding a 1062 dual bore slide to use with the 1052. I find this setup also excellent.

[ghmerrill]

I'll see how the leadpipe it comes with works out. Otherwise, some experimentation would be involved in any event.

[ssking2b]

I'm mildly concerned about getting an aftermarket lead pipe for the XO (should I want one, and that's certainly not clear) because of the peculiar threading approach they seem to take.

That is a simple fix. My XO 1240RL came with 3 lead pipes. I HATED the long Bach-like lead pipe, so it is pretty simple for a tech to take off the treading mechanism and put it on a different lead pipe. That being said, the shorter brass lead pipe is excellent, and the same sized pipe in sterling silver is fantastic! I alternate between the 2 pipes...brass for orchestral work, and sterling silver for the commercial stuff.

[ghmerrill]

I take the same approach, but with a red brass pipe and a nickel one -- although the nickel one just stays in nowadays because I'm just playing in a big band. I've found that (at least on my current horn), I've needed to shorten each pipe I've tried in order for it to work well (at least on that horn).

[jjenkins]

You can use Shires leadpipes in XO horns. There will be a slight gap near the threaded cap, but it works.

[MTbassbone]

+1 for the Getzen. I play similar Edwards model. Very efficient in my opinion.

[ghmerrill]

Very efficient in my opinion.

Thanks. Efficiency is a concern for me.

[Marz]

I like the Getzen bassbone line.

[Burgerbob]

I will say, I just played a 1240L again and I honestly think it's better than the 1052.

[ghmerrill]

Too late. The (used) 1052 will shortly be on its way. A lot of hand-wringing, and what I think of as careful thought, went into the decision to try the 1052 first -- including its source and condition.

A big part of this was my concern about the ergonomics of the XO vs. those of the 1052 -- which I concede is really impossible to evaluate unless you hold each of them in your hands for a reasonable trial period. So it's just a hunch. But I have a feeling that the 1052 may be more ergonomically better for me. If it turns out to be ergonomically unusable, and clearly not modifiable in that regard, I may have to return it. Otherwise, I'll keep it.

What else is one to do in the current environment of instrument availability and the possibility of trials? I would have been willing to spend a day or two going somewhere to try each, but that opportunity just isn't there for me. The only possibility would appear to be Dillon (and that's quite a long -- at least probably 3-day total -- trip up and back to do the trial). But they currently list only one XO 1240L in stock -- at a price (especially with travel expenses for the try-out) that's higher than I'd prefer), and no 1052s (used or new). So it's come down to trying a used 1052 first or a used 1240 first -- with somewhat conflicting advantages. Such is life.

Definitely a "first world problem". Hey, I've made a Schiller work quite well for me for about a decade. How bad can either of my new candidates be?