The best German Trombone brands

[imsevimse]

Kühnl & Hoyer and Schmelzer is what I think is the most spread but I have never played any of those. I only have tried Jürgen Voigt and they were very good.

What's the most popular german trombones out there?

/Tom

[imsevimse]

Double post

[Burgerbob]

Thein and Laetzsch are top the of pile, IMO. But there's also Throja, Kromat, and like 50 others that all make great horns.

[MStarke]

I might forget one, but I would assume from a quantity perspective Kühnl & Hoyer and B&S are the largest trombone manufacturers from/in Germany. Miraphone is also pretty large, but not so much in trombones. Jürgen Voigt might come close. Note that all of these make instruments that are mostly not very German (with the exception of Voigt), but for a large part American-style trombones.

However as Aidan said there is a huge number of small shops.
I guess out of those Lätzsch, Thein, Kromat and Jahn/Throja might be the most well-known internationally.
Not built anymore today are e.g. Kruspe, Heckel and Piering.

But there are many more, e.g. Helmut Voigt, HSM Brass, Schmidt Brass, Takao Nakagawa or Littin Brass.

[MrHCinDE]

Would Courtois get an honorary mention?

I’d agree with MStarke from the quantity perspective, Kühnl & Hoyer and B&S are what I most commonly see from horns manufactured by a German brand in various groups I play in here in Germany. I probably see more from each of Bach, Conn, King and Yamaha than K&H/B&S combined to put it in perspective.

[BGuttman]

Don't forget Thein. Also Schagerl.

[SamBTbrn]

When you ask what is the best German trombone, do you mean actually best traditional style German trombone or just what are the best trombones that are made in Germany?

Because these two things are not the same.

[MStarke]

Don't forget Thein. Also Schagerl.

Schagerl is Austrian, not German. small, but significant difference

[NotSkilledHere]

i think germany has a rich history of really high quality big brands with a lot of reall REALLY high quality boutiques.

There are a lot of legendary small makes that have huge historical significance. Monke, Schmelzer, H.Glassl, Kruspe, Heckel, to name a few (dont crucify me if i didnt mention your favorite, just naming a few off top of my head). and I think these names are going to be the most popular when you ask about what horns people really dream about and want, but the numbers available simply arent able to go around.

I think if you want most popular in terms of horns actually sold, you are looking at the big high volume names like K&H and B&S as mentioned. However, if you are looking at what most people see as sort of pinnacle halo horns, you are looking at a tier below that in terms of manufacture volume with Thein and Laetzsch being the legendary names and kind of looked as at "high volume" top of the line horns. And they are priced extremely high to match how they have been perceived.

There are so many german makes that turn out fantastic horns that it's hard to say who is best.

[BGuttman]

Merged two identical topics since both had responses.

[imsevimse]

When you ask what is the best German trombone, do you mean actually best traditional style German trombone or just what are the best trombones that are made in Germany?

Because these two things are not the same.

Best German made trombone (opinions) and most popular (volume sold/spread/good reviews), not necessary German style.

/Tom

[MStarke]

When you ask what is the best German trombone, do you mean actually best traditional style German trombone or just what are the best trombones that are made in Germany?

Because these two things are not the same.

Best German made trombone (opinions) and most popular (volume sold), not necessary German style.

/Tom

If you go by highest price, it's between Thein and Lätzsch. Due to the high price they might also be just a little bit better quality-wise. You simply cannot sell a trombone in that price range if it's not flawless.

But apart from that I would say all of these are great quality. Kühnl and Hoyer, B and S and Miraphone are more "factory-made" than the others.

[SamBTbrn]

When you ask what is the best German trombone, do you mean actually best traditional style German trombone or just what are the best trombones that are made in Germany?

Because these two things are not the same.

Best German made trombone (opinions) and most popular (volume sold/spread/good reviews), not necessary German style.

/Tom

Most common by raw distribution numbers across Germany, my guess would be kuhnl & hoyer and BnS. In the Netherlands it is Thein and Latzch (The Germans don't seem to like Thein for some reason or another, you will hardly ever see them played in a professional orchestra there)

Best made by quality? That is very hard to say. All the small German makers do amazing work. From the larger ones Latzch, Thein, Kromat and Voigt stand out for quality control. The larger the company/factory, the higher chance there is for quality control slips, due solely to the numbers they have to output

[Macbone1]

Horst or Hans Molter (no longer with us) basically did handmade Bach Strads in his basement. Part of the original staff of Vincent Bach's New York shop, he returned to Germany to make instruments out of his home. They are all in the style of Vincent Bach models but hand made, and are fantastic. If you can find one, but I doubt anybody would want to sell theirs.

[Tbarh]

Josef Gopp looks great..

[deanmccarty]

The German makers are putting out fantastic instruments. My first German trombone was my contra. I purchased a Jürgen Voigt with their free flow valve, a modified JV-173-FGg-K. Its quality and sound blew me away. About a year later, I had the opportunity to purchase a Voigt alto second hand for an incredibly good price (JV-711-RK). Very light sound, not heavy like my previous alto was.

Last year I purchased Voigt’s newest tenor, the JV-188-FXG. It just sings. The innovative positioning of their free flow valve not only adds an aesthetically pleasing look, but it plays so well. I couldn’t be happier. Last week I had the opportunity to try their bass trombones. I had been anxious to try their free flow model since I was so happy with my contra and tenor. I tried all of their models and I just loved the free flow model (JV-163-FG). The Hagmann and Axial models were also good, but there’s something about the free flow that just seems to allow better core and slotting. My wife, who is also a trombonist, agreed that the free flow model sounded better than my current Rath setup. I also tried their .500 bore jazz horn (JV-27) and it was outstanding. My wife said “go ahead and buy both.” Who am I to argue?!

As you can see, I am a huge fan of the Jürgen Voigt instruments. It’s hard to say what is the “best” maker. I’ve always preferred Miraphone tubas to any other. I have a 282 Bb, and an oval rotary euphonium. The tuba may be my favorite instrument. Thein, Läetsch, etc. They are all fine instrument manufacturers. It’s hard to beat German craftsmanship… even my cooking knives are German!

If you’re looking to try out any of the German makers, you won’t go wrong. The Voigt trombones I’ve chosen are all “American” style instruments, except for the alto. I’ve had not problems blending.

[PNeiteler]

These are instrument makers from Germany which I know making trombones:
Josef Gopp, Karlstadt-Wiesenfeld
Markus Leuchter, Herzogenrath
Takao Nakagawa, Leipzig
Littin, Frankfurt
Kühnl&Hoyer, Markt-Erlbach
Miraphone, Waldkraiburg
Matthias Hölle, Hirrlingen
Finke, Herford
Throja, Berlin
Helmut Voigt, Markneukirchen
Lätzsch, Bremen
Thein, Bremen
Stefan Schmidt (HSM), Markneukirchen
Jürgen Voigt, Markneukirchen
Karl Mönnich, Markneukirchen
B&S, Markneukirchen
W. C. Schmidt, Markneukirchen
Armin Leyener, Netphen bei Siegen
Schmelzer, Mönchengladbach
Kromat, Bremen
Klingspor, Freiburg im Breisgau
Matthias Fidelak, Naumburg
Buddenbohm, Minden
Ewald Meinl, Geretsried
Winfried Rapp, Schwieberdingen
Horst Molter, Mackenbach
Meister Anton, Niederkassel

[SwissTbone]

That's a great list!

According to Chatgpt this is the optimal route if you want to visit all these shops. Starting from Bremen:

Bremen: Lätzsch, Thein, Kromat
Herford/Minden: Finke (Herford), Buddenbohm (Minden)
Berlin: Throja
Leipzig: Takao Nakagawa
Naumburg: Matthias Fidelak
Markneukirchen: Helmut Voigt, Stefan Schmidt (HSM), Jürgen Voigt, Karl Mönnich, B&S, W. C. Schmidt
Frankfurt: Littin
Mönchengladbach: Schmelzer
Herzogenrath: Markus Leuchter
Netphen: Armin Leyener
Niederkassel: Meister Anton
Schwieberdingen: Winfried Rapp
Freiburg: Klingspor
Hirrlingen: Matthias Hölle
Mackenbach: Horst Molter
Karlstadt-Wiesenfeld: Josef Gopp
Markt-Erlbach: Kühnl&Hoyer
Waldkraiburg: Miraphone
Geretsried: Ewald Meinl

Anybody up for a road trip?

[Retrobone]

I want to give Nils Buddenbohm in Minden a personal thumbs-up. He's building some great instruments, and his craftsmanship is superb! And I love my Markus Leuchter alto too. I also collect old Lätzsch German style trombones. Germany is amazing for trombones these days!

https://buddenbohm.com/en/

[WGWTR180]

The German makers are putting out fantastic instruments. My first German trombone was my contra. I purchased a Jürgen Voigt with their free flow valve, a modified JV-173-FGg-K. Its quality and sound blew me away. About a year later, I had the opportunity to purchase a Voigt alto second hand for an incredibly good price (JV-711-RK). Very light sound, not heavy like my previous alto was.

Last year I purchased Voigt’s newest tenor, the JV-188-FXG. It just sings. The innovative positioning of their free flow valve not only adds an aesthetically pleasing look, but it plays so well. I couldn’t be happier. Last week I had the opportunity to try their bass trombones. I had been anxious to try their free flow model since I was so happy with my contra and tenor. I tried all of their models and I just loved the free flow model (JV-163-FG). The Hagmann and Axial models were also good, but there’s something about the free flow that just seems to allow better core and slotting. My wife, who is also a trombonist, agreed that the free flow model sounded better than my current Rath setup. I also tried their .500 bore jazz horn (JV-27) and it was outstanding. My wife said “go ahead and buy both.” Who am I to argue?!

As you can see, I am a huge fan of the Jürgen Voigt instruments. It’s hard to say what is the “best” maker. I’ve always preferred Miraphone tubas to any other. I have a 282 Bb, and an oval rotary euphonium. The tuba may be my favorite instrument. Thein, Läetsch, etc. They are all fine instrument manufacturers. It’s hard to beat German craftsmanship… even my cooking knives are German!

If you’re looking to try out any of the German makers, you won’t go wrong. The Voigt trombones I’ve chosen are all “American” style instruments, except for the alto. I’ve had not problems blending.

Did you love the bass enough to purchase one? And where did you try the basses?

[deanmccarty]

Yes! I will be purchasing a JV-163-FG (Gold bell, free flow valves) with a modified slide with a heavy bow. I’m also purchasing a .500 tenor, the JV-27 with a yellow bell.

[WGWTR180]

Yes! I will be purchasing a JV-163-FG (Gold bell, free flow valves) with a modified slide with a heavy bow. I’m also purchasing a .500 tenor, the JV-27 with a yellow bell.

Cool.

[imsevimse]

Would Courtois get an honorary mention?

Thanks to all! The next horn I buy (if I buy a new one) will be a german made horn.

Courtois is a very good brand but I believe it's French or at least was French in the past? I do own one of those a 420 "Challanger", a bit Bach-like. Very nice horn. Is it now German?

/Tom

[MrHCinDE]

Courtois is part of Buffet Crampon, I’m pretty sure the Courtois manufacturing was moved to the B&S location in Marktneunkirchen (Germany) after the acquisition.

The branding is still French, hence only the honorary mention to being German!

[WGWTR180]

Yes! I will be purchasing a JV-163-FG (Gold bell, free flow valves) with a modified slide with a heavy bow. I’m also purchasing a .500 tenor, the JV-27 with a yellow bell.

What was the difference between the standard slide bow and the modified heavy bow?

[deanmccarty]

What was the difference between the standard slide bow and the modified heavy bow?

I was trying out every option combination they had for me. I tried the standard slide, their lightweight slide, and the standard slide with a heavy bow. For me the combination with the heavy now centered better and had a much better core of sound. With a short yellow brass leadpipe it had a dark, heavy orchestral sound. With a nickel leadpipe it changed the sound completely… a nice bright commercial sound with a bit of edge.

Over the past 20 or so years I have been playing modular instruments (Shires and Rath). I am happy to be going back to a non-modular instrument. When I play the core is much more solid. I don’t know if it’s just the instrument, or the fact that it’s not modular. In any case… my current setup (Rath with dependent Rotax rotors) was miles better than either of the two Shires setups I was previously playing. I didn’t think I would find a better instrument than the Rath. But this Voigt setup is solid.

You can hear some great Voigt sounds on the new Captain America movie. Bernie Plos is cranking out the low end on his Voigt bass that is similar to what I have chosen (his has Axial valves instead of the free-flow), and the contra (same model as mine, just different valve tuning).

[jacobgarchik]

wow, how many firms are there in the US, by comparison?

[Nomsis]

These are instrument makers from Germany which I know making trombones:
Josef Gopp, Karlstadt-Wiesenfeld
Markus Leuchter, Herzogenrath
Takao Nakagawa, Leipzig
Littin, Frankfurt
Kühnl&Hoyer, Markt-Erlbach
Miraphone, Waldkraiburg
Matthias Hölle, Hirrlingen
Finke, Herford
Throja, Berlin
Helmut Voigt, Markneukirchen
Lätzsch, Bremen
Thein, Bremen
Stefan Schmidt (HSM), Markneukirchen
Jürgen Voigt, Markneukirchen
Karl Mönnich, Markneukirchen
B&S, Markneukirchen
W. C. Schmidt, Markneukirchen
Armin Leyener, Netphen bei Siegen
Schmelzer, Mönchengladbach
Kromat, Bremen
Klingspor, Freiburg im Breisgau
Matthias Fidelak, Naumburg
Buddenbohm, Minden
Ewald Meinl, Geretsried
Winfried Rapp, Schwieberdingen
Horst Molter, Mackenbach
Meister Anton, Niederkassel

Nice list, here are some more:
Worischek
Schorre
Dotzauer (trombones are not listed on their homepage but I think you still can order them)
Schmidtco (no website available but I think they are still in business)

I haven't played them (I actually have had a Dotzauer but no a recent one) but I guess they all make fine instruments. There are probably still missing a couple.
I wonder what the list would look like if we were to add manufacturers from neighbouring countries such as Austria, Switzerland, the Czech Republic, Poland, etc. Or even a list for all of Europe. Maybe we could start adding brands that no longer exist or don't do trombones any more...
I guess the length of the list would approach infinity.

[sf105]

How on earth is one supposed to choose?

[Johnstad]

Voigt is a fantastic builder. Great people there.