Salvation Army Bands

[Thom]

I played in the Salvation Army Band for over ten years in the middle 1990's to middle 2000's. I marched in the 2000 Rose Parade in their Festival Band. The local Corps, (That is what they call Church), have stopped using brass bands in their worship services. We used to get a group and play Christmas Songs around the buckets every holiday season. I sure do miss it!

[Pezza]

My local corps also doesn't have a brass band, so I travel to 1 that does.
Only have 6-8 players, but better than the alternative!

[MStarke]

I had my very first british brass band experience in September subbing on bass trombone with the German Staff Band which as I understand it gathers a collection of musicians not only from Germany, but also quite some from the Netherlands and maybe other neighbouring countries. I was quite busy playing and didn't pay too much attention to these things

They played a nice mix of relatively simple hymns and more challenging pieces. Lot of fun on bass trombone, quite a workout! I probably wouldn't want to do it all the time as it could be a bit one-dimensional however...

[heldenbone]

I play in a Salvation Army corps band. We are part of the Sunday morning Holiness Meeting each week, except for a break in the summer when vacations deplete our forces significantly. I also have the privilege of playing bass trombone in the divisional brass band in our part of Ohio. None of the cities in Ohio supports a "staff" level band the way Chicago and New York, can. In Columbus, multiple corps' support corps bands as both part of their outreach and a facet of their worship, along with other styles of music. Our corps is always on the lookout for opportunities to combine the traditional brass band and praise band formats. The Army supports that with newer publications that also incorporate congregational singing.

[2bobone]

Back in the late 50's, when a student at ESM, one of the euphonium players, Bob Schramm, had a father who was a Major in The Salvation Army. Because of this connection, Bob had access to The Salvation Army Band Journal, the printed music used by all the national bands. From that journal, he chose a bunch of "contest pieces" which were used in the competitions that took place regularly in Britain. I particularly recall compositions by Eric Ball and Erik Leidzen that were especially difficult. Trombone parts in treble clef, key of C and tuba parts in treble clef, key of C were evidently standard notations for them. I played a baritone horn part using my Mirafone "tenor horn". An interesting fact was that The Salvation Army manufactured their own instruments somewhere in England. We never went so far as to "play around the buckets" as the OP did but I went away with a great deal of respect for the players in The Salvation Army Bands who could play those tough charts ! I've got a reel-to-reel tape of that band somewhere that I've got to dig up. I think it's acetate tape so it'll probably self destruct on the first playing !

[pmeiden]

This thread has me taking a non-performance trip down memory lane. Probably 25+ years ago, I wanted to go to the SA bookstore at their then Northeast Headquarters in West Nyack, NY to purchase the newer editions of the Caroler’s Favorite books (these were the original Leidzen arrangements with additional ones by Steve Bulla). Took my (then) young son with me for the ride - he’s now 29.

When we got there, the bookstore was closed for a mid-day worship service. Receptionist said we were welcome to join them for the tail end of service until the store re-opened, so we went in and found that the NY Staff Band was playing for the service. It was very fun, music was great, my son got a few cookies and I got my music books.

A fun memory!

[Dennis]

Trombone parts in treble clef, key of C and tuba parts in treble clef, key of C were evidently standard notations for them.

Actually the tenor trombone parts, euph parts, and baritone parts are all Bb treble clef (sounding a M 9th lower), the Eb bass (tuba) parts are Eb treble clef (sounding a M13th lower), and Bb bass (tuba) parts are in Bb treble clef sounding a M17th(?) lower.

The bass trombone is the only brass player who gets a concert pitch part--and the other trombonists will try to guilt trip him/her about it.

[2bobone]

Apparently there is some disagreement about the clefs and related keys used in Salvation Army band music. I clearly remember struggling at first with my baritone part because it was in "C" in treble clef and I was used to treble clef parts being in "B Flat". Whatever the nomenclature, the parts were markedly different from what we in the USA were accustomed to seeing. Perhaps the SA band instrument manufacturers made instruments to accommodate the unusual [to us] choice of transpositions so that instrumentalists could easily move to another instrument when proper players were not available for a specific instrument. Cornetists playing tuba ? Trombone players playing flugelhorn ? Not all SA bands are fully staffed and this arrangement sounds like it might have been a possibility. Does anybody know ?

[BGuttman]

I think the Salvation Army adopted a standard that was in use in US military bands of the mid 19th Century. All instruments were in either Eb or Bb and the parts were transposed so the player could read the part and place the fingers on the right "buttons". Civil War era bands could wind up with different members sidelined either through death or injury and other players may have to step in.

Note that Eb transposed fingerings and bass clef fingerings are identical, so tuba parts in Civil War era bands were in concert pitch bass clef while the tubas were in Eb.

Tubas playing transposed treble clef parts were a heritage from the British Brass Band.

British Brass Bands used a bass trombone in G, and they had a real problem reading transposed parts (try it sometime). So the British Brass Band put the bass trombone part in concert pitch bass clef.

[Dennis]

I played a fair amount in SA bands as a high schooler. I never saw a C treble clef part for anyone.

I did get a fair amount of abuse from the other trombonists because they were struggling with Bb treble and I got a concert-pitch part in God's-own-clef.

[AtomicClock]

I clearly remember struggling at first with my baritone part because it was in "C" in treble clef and I was used to treble clef parts being in "B Flat".

I wonder if you were pranked by trumpet players and their C trumpets. If everyone reads Bb parts as C (and no one plays the Eb parts), it'll sound right.

[Thom]

As the OP I have been following the threads. I started in the 80's and the TC parts were in Bb for Cornet, Trombone, and Euphonium/Baritone here in the US. Just saying.

[2bobone]

Thom : Perhaps we have found the problem !
You "started in the 80's and the TC parts were in Bb for Cornet, Trombone, and Euphonium/Baritone here in the US. Just saying."
My experience with playing charts from the Salvation Army Band Journal was in the 1950's, quite a bit earlier than your experience. My aged brain is unsure about a lot of things [is my slide lock ON or OFF ?] but I remember that those unusual SA charts commanded my attention then as they do now. Were those charts rewritten to accommodate more modern practices ? Does anybody know ? Do we have any UK members who have been involved with the SA who might know ? Where is Chris Sterns ? We have a lot of confused "Yanks" who need answers !! AND ------ how many coins does it take to cause a Salvation Army kettle tripod to collapse ? The nearest answer will get the Grand Prize !

[Thom]

Here is a link to a pdf with UK SA Band music for the "Red Shield March"

https://www.google.com/search?q=salvati ... -parts.PDF

[Thom]

Here is a link to purchase the song books for all brass band instrumentation. It includes a Cornet book option in C. The SA made there own instruments back in the day and you could purchase a Cornet in C, but it was optional.

https://shop.salvationarmy.org/The-Salv ... -Tune-Book

[Thom]

2bobone, I am not disputing that there was brass band music in the key of C, I believe you. But most of the history of the SA Bands had instrumentations in Bb and Eb TC with the Bass Bones in BC in the key of C like the piano music. Here is the Wiki link to SA Band History:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvati ... brass_band

[Thom]

Just some personal info about my SA Band experience. I played in the Corps Band, the Southwestern Regional Band, and the Festival Band. I was a Soldier for over 10 years and a Warrant Officer for one year in charge of an Outpost. We had a Reservist that had started in the 1940's and he had a lot of history info about the SA Bands. I also taught the youngsters in the Corps to play brass instruments and there was a Conductor of the Southwestern Regional Band who emphasized history to teach the kids. He talked about the family that started the music programs back in the 1800's. They never mentioned band music in C, but that was probably an oversight

[Thom]

Here is a link to purchase the song books for all brass band instrumentation. It includes a Cornet book option in C. The SA made there own instruments back in the day and you could purchase a Cornet in C, but it was optional.

https://shop.salvationarmy.org/The-Salv ... -Tune-Book

On the website mentioned you can still buy all 4 parts in the key of C. Most SA Band music is the sopranos, alto, tenor, and bass parts in the piano music transcribed into each instruments key, Bb, Eb, F, and C. Maybe the C parts were those books for C instruments, who knows. Maybe the Corps you played in didn't want to buy all those different books and just had the ones in C

[2bobone]

I'm away from the recordings at the moment but when I return I'll check out the titles of the pieces that we played. They were mostly in the concert repertoire vein and were no "walk in the park" ! Stay tuned !

[heldenbone]

On a related note, I observed in South Africa when there for a Brass Band Unity Festival that most of the cornet/trumpet parts I saw published were C parts, although Bb instruments were universally employed. The players themselves grumbled a little, expressing a preference for Bb parts, but went ahead and played the C parts all the same. Noone ever explained the (cogitive) dissonance to me; it was "how things were done" in the South Africa Brass Band Union.

My SA (Salvation Army) corps band has been playing some red kettle stands this month. The people we encounter seem to prefer it to the little silver bells that are the usual fare.

[Thom]

On a related note, I observed in South Africa when there for a Brass Band Unity Festival that most of the cornet/trumpet parts I saw published were C parts, although Bb instruments were universally employed. The players themselves grumbled a little, expressing a preference for Bb parts, but went ahead and played the C parts all the same. Noone ever explained the (cogitive) dissonance to me; it was "how things were done" in the South Africa Brass Band Union.

My SA (Salvation Army) corps band has been playing some red kettle stands this month. The people we encounter seem to prefer it to the little silver bells that are the usual fare.

I tried to play at the kettles this year. Unfortunately, the Corps Commander said I would have to come up with the others as well

[DougHulme]

Well, I'm not sure I have much to add to the thread but I am the Band Manager of The Portsmouth Citadel Band of The Salvation Army here in the UK, this is a premier band has 35 players when they are all there and has a long history of broadcasting, recording and touring - not so much these days, especially since lock down. I am what they call the Band Sergeant (better termed 'Chaplain') of The Solent Fellowship Band which has around 40 players in it and is less onerous to be a part of, you can just be in sympathy with the Salvation Army's ethos and beliefs and finally I fulfil a similar role in the area (called a 'Division' in S.A terminolgy) Youth Band so get to teach and influence a lot of young people in brass playing (theres about 50 of them when they are all there). Playing round the kettles as you US Citizens are describing may be a lovely thought at this time of the year but I've just done 9, 2 hour sessions and still have 3 left before Christmas - whilst I am not complaining it does lose some of its appeal after that sort of marathon. I thank my good friend Doug Elliot for his use of Lexan in the mouthpieces - its a great help in an English winter! I play Bass Trombone 90% of the time. Regards the cleffs etc all Salvation Army music has been written as (say) Bruce described in an earlier post. There has only ever been one part written in concert pitch and that is indeed the Bass Trombone. It has always been that way since the earliest publications (in the late 1800's) In recent years and with particular reference to the carol playing season the S.A have indeed published some of those parts in various cleffs and keys but this is actually for sales to non S.A groups who find the collection of carols useful and since they are written in basically only 4 part harmony - easy to use for small groups. It is true that in some parts of the world the S.A Brass band is in decline (Mainly the Western world) but internationally the S.A is bigger than it has ever been in its history and Brass banding is still very much alive in some areas. So after this long post I shall retire... Doug. PS to MStarke next time you play in The German Staff Band, give my regards to Howard. I also spent last Friday with Ced the second euphonium player and the Territorial Commader for Germany until a few weeks ago... small world eh?

[MStarke]

PS to MStarke next time you play in The German Staff Band, give my regards to Howard. I also spent last Friday with Ced the second euphonium player and the Territorial Commader for Germany until a few weeks ago... small world eh?

Doug, would love to play with them again when they are around. It was a really nice experience, good music and also my first real view on and inside the salvation army in general. They do really valuable work here in Hamburg, being located directly on the famous red light district (Reeperbahn) and offering lots of things to the people there many of which are kind of lost souls... I really liked the very warm and friendly welcome they gave me! Should you talk to Howard at some point, feel free to say hello from that bass trombonist who subbed in Hamburg in 2024

[2bobone]

"I'm away from the recordings at the moment but when I return I'll check out the titles of the pieces that we played. They were mostly in the concert repertoire vein and were no "walk in the park" ! Stay tuned !

As promised : "Prelude to Revelry" - Gordon Jacob
"Tournament for Brass" - Eric Ball [1-Trios & Duets / 2-Solos / 3-Scherzo]
"Prelude on Randolph" - Ralph Vaughan Williams - Arr. Ray Allen
"Rhapsody on Norwegian Folk Tunes" - Emil Soderstrom

Has anyone on the forum had experience playing any of these gems ? My first recollection was that we just got together for the fun of it but apparently we thought we were doing well enough to present a concert at Kilbourne Hall at ESM ! Ah ! Youthful enthusiasm !

[DougHulme]

2bobone... without doing any research (so I might be wrong) but I dont think many of thsoe pieces are published by the S.A possibly Ray Steadman Allens might be. Eric Ball had a period of not worshipping at The S.A and during that time he became equally famous in the contesting band world as a composer and arranger of extraordinary gifting. Emil Soderstrom was not so constrained by UK rules so was free to publish elsewhere.

Marcus... I will be sure to mention it when I next see Howard Evans. I know the work of the S.A in Hamburg. On two occassions in the 90's I stayed (with a colleague the first time, my family the second) in their facility there and learned a lot about their work in the red light district. I was on my way to Russia at the time - driving. I did some advisory and support work for their fledgling work in Rusia after the wall came down (how times have changed!!).

Just for anyones interest heres my band and more importantly my trombone section playing a trombone feature in a service one Sunday mroning. I would be the good looking one!...



Someone just told me theres a really 'ropey' recording of the Trombones carolling round the kettle in Portsmouth high street on Saturday just gone - its on Portsmouth SA facebook - but I dont do face book.

... Doug

[2bobone]

I may have created the impression that all of the pieces represented on the listed concert program were the only ones that we played in rehearsals. Indeed, we did play quite a bit of the brass band repertoire and I'm sure a good deal of it was published SA material. Eric Leizden was well represented on the list of composers but after so many years have passed I couldn't attest to what those pieces were. [I hope he wasn't a "back slider" like Eric Ball !} I guess I was simply trying to express my appreciation for the higher levels of playing that exist in The Salvation Army Band world that are not commonly acknowledged here in The States. Respect comes in many ways ---------------

[DougHulme]

2bobone... I understand and am totally grateful for your sentiments. - No Eric Leidzen wasnt a "backslider" ever and Eric Ball returned to the fold and I knew him in his latter years a fine and well respected gentleman... Doug