Rant

[tbdana]

Edit: Explanation for this rant in another post below.

If you’re in a section with me, you better bring it. I don’t mess around, and I’m not your babysitter. You either play the stuffing out of your part or go home and let someone else sit there who will. We can joke around and have fun, but what comes out of your horn better be damn near perfect. I play the very best I can every time, and you’d better, too. Don’t disrespect me and don’t waste my time. I’m not here to play patty cake with you. If I’m playing first you’d better listen and follow me to perfection, and if you’re playing first you’d better be killing it because I’m not there to follow an idiot.

That’s it. After today's gig, I just had to get that off my chest. Thanks.

/rant

[harrisonreed]

waynes.gif

I can't believe you found the tablet that Moses broke!

[whyking]

What mouthpaice do u play?

[Posaunus]

I don't play as well as I did in my prime. However I still get asked to play in ensembles with others, and am generally pleased with the outcome. But sometimes (unlike the old days), I chip a note, miss an accidental, play out of tune, err on a rhythm, miscount a rest, ... . It's a bit embarrassing, but not the end of the world. Life (and the music) go on. I really am trying my best, but occasionally stuff happens. I'd hate to be playing in a section with Dana, who would be imagining that I am "disrespecting" him and wasting his time with my imperfections. I mostly play in groups that enjoy making music together, and make their audiences happy. If I thought my fellow musicians felt so negatively about me, I'd leave immediately and not look back.

Or maybe I should just get a better mouthpiece?

[chouston3]

Different people want different things out of music performance. I enjoy music and want to play with other people who also enjoy music. I don't expect perfection. If someone plays out of tune or chips a note, I try to build them up. I expect forgiveness from them as well if I don't play that great.

I still make an earnest effort. I still try to play my best. However, I am in it for the fun. I know this about myself and there are ensembles that cater to me. We have fun but we don't always sound perfect.

Other musicians play with a lot of intensity and try to create the best music they can at all times. This used to be me and sometimes it is me but not all the time.

I suspect Dana demands a high level of performance from herself. This kind of uncompromising drive can make someone a great musician. She also expects her fellow musicians to want the same thing. There are groups that cater to Dana just like there are groups who cater to me.

It is important to know yourself and your performance level. Then try to play with musicians who want the same thing.

[MStarke]

I feel Dana's frustration to a degree.

However I feel it's in most cases predictable and thereby basically your own choice what you are getting into.
I am typically playing either purely for my own enjoyment - normally in high quality/semi-pro settings with other people on comparable level - or subbing with very mixed groups.

Where I feel Dana's sentiment a lot is when people play way below there capacity due to e.g. lack of concentration, no will to prepare just a little bit or sometimes lacking will of improvement. Plus sometimes conductors/programmers choosing music and/or directing it in a way that doesn't help.

[Matt K]

I like the adage: good hang, good music, good pay. If I don’t get any, I don’t do it! If you get all three, I’ll cancel anything to be there! Somewhere in the middle? Depends on how many other 2/3 you have at the time (if any). But if you need 1/3 that’s fine too but I tend to not expect more than 1/3 so I’m pleasantly surprised if it’s 2/3.

There’s surprisingly a really good monthly jam session where I live that ticks 2/3 (I get paid nothing!) but I would t miss it for the world as an amateur living in a music desert

[Macbone1]

I empathize with the rant. But unless you can cherry pick your own section, you have to live with a few quirks.
I agree, anyone not following the style and energy of the lead player for whatever reason really needs to step it up. And any lead player who is just sleepwalking through the session is demoralizing the whole section.

[Kdanielsen]

People get sick, they get tired, they have chronic health problems, their friends/family/pets die or get sick, they have mental health issues, they get in fights with their spouses, they have money problems, they have children, they have crappy day jobs, they get stuck in traffic, and they have a million other problems.

And (sometimes) they have empathy.

[ghmerrill]

Speaking from an "aging amateur" perspective myself (though understanding the "frustrated pro" perspective), I just don't play in an organization where I get irritated and annoyed at the level of skill/practice/performance. The organization isn't going to change (believe me -- I've put a lot of time into to trying to do that in one instance), and you have control only over what you can do yourself. If you're at the point of "I can't stand sitting through those rehearsals," then don't. Just find something else if you can, but abandon the exercise in self-torture. I've even left a position where the group was more than happy to have me to fill the otherwise vacant role -- but where I felt that "I'm just not good enough at this to enjoy it." For some time I worked with a software engineer who had been a professional trombonist in the Boston area (and was on the Pops' sub list, among other things). He'd decided that professional music just wasn't doing it for him in his life and went in a different career direction. But he wouldn't go near a community band or an amateur group. He just couldn't. I get it.

[baileyman]

The reason I play mostly in tunes bands now is that most of the situations I got into were too loud, too fast, and too hard. I mean, a good big band centers of mf. It plays relaxed tempos, even when quick. And it plays music the players can actually play. Lack any of these and things like good soli, good balance with full sound, aping the section leader, section leaders listening to lead trumpet, time feel, that stuff just goes out the window, but that's where the pleasure is.

[tbdana]

Thanks for being so fair about my selfish rant. I was super frustrated and just needed to say it.

One thing to clarify: This wasn't a fun hang, or a community ensemble of hobbyists. I was talking about a professional situation with musicians hired to play an important concert that was being recorded and broadcast, and which cost huge bucks to put on. The sole rehearsal consisted of going over intros, transitions and endings, and essentially sight reading the gig. Those kinds of rehearsals are fairly common with pro players, and we are expected to nail it. That's why they hire us rather than use canned music or travel with musicians.

In that situation, a bad performance in my section -- and OMG this was soooo bad -- reflects on all of us, including me, and can affect whether or not *I* get hired again. The audience pays big bucks to attend, at a time when folks have limited entertainment dollars available, and live music is struggling.

This utterly unqualified player hired to play first on the gig made us all look bad. At one point he just completely gave up in the middle of tunes and stopped playing. And we couldn't hide. There were numerous trombone solos and solis that the dude just quit on when he started messing them up, leaving big gaps in the music. I don't know which was worse, when he completely screwed up, or when he just gave up and stopped playing in the middle of a trombone soli, when he was playing the lead part and the cameras were on us.

I didn't say anything, I just did my best and ranted here, later on. The conductor was furious at us. I don't appreciate being put in that position.

In my rant I probably should have been clear about the situation lest social players internalize my anger. There is a huge gulf in the nature of the vibe and experience between the community orchestra or rehearsal band on the one hand, and high pressure professional situations, on the other. You all know the social/community experience. It's low pressure and fun. But on this kind of gig we're not there for fun, although we often have fun. We are there to do a job, to make someone else look good, and to reflect well on those who spend a tremendous amount of money on us. And while I no longer have to worry about gigging to keep a roof over my head, most of the other musicians do, and we have a duty to them, too. The pressure and expectations are sky high. While that kind of pressure might ruin the experience for hobbyists, pros thrive on it. But when it crashes and burns, we can't just shrug it off. There are expectations of us. It's a whole different thing.

Anyway, sorry for the rant.

[harrisonreed]

I'd blame whoever vetted or hired them, tbh.

[tbdana]

I'd blame whoever vetted or hired them, tbh.

Oh yeah, there's that, for sure. And in this case his hire was convoluted, as he wasn't the original person hired. But he took the gig when he had no business being on it, and knew he had no business being on it. At the very least he should have given up that lead part. In fact, on such gigs we often pass the lead parts around, but he wanted them all.

Sigh... Okay. I'm over it. Ooooooohhhmmmmmmm......

[ghmerrill]

I'd blame whoever vetted or hired them, tbh.

Yeah. Harrison actually beat me in terms of seconds on pushing the Submit button on this one. Ya gotta wonder just how that happened.

[Bach5G]

From G Keillor:

https://www.angelfire.com/ia/julievw/orchrules.html

[ghmerrill]

I have seen the Lipizzaner Stallions in their native digs, and Leonard Bernstein was no Lipizanner.

[tbdana]

From G Keillor:

https://www.angelfire.com/ia/julievw/orchrules.html

OMG! There was a link at the end to this story:

* * *

A Trombone Story

Yes, Trombonists the world 'round share the same reputation, and here's why . . .
1812 overture-please don't try this at home

Paolo Esperanza, bass-trombonist with the Simphonica Mayor de Uruguay, in a misplaced moment of inspiration decided to make his own contribution to the cannon shots fired as part of the orchestra's performance of Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture at an outdoor children's concert. In complete seriousness he placed a large, ignited firecracker, which was quivalent in strength to a quarter stick of dynamite, into his aluminum straight mute and then stuck the mute into the bell of his quite new Yamaha in-line double-valve bass trombone.

Later, from his hospital bed he explained to a reporter through bandages on his mouth, "I thought that the bell of my trombone would shield me from the explosion and instead, would focus the energy of the blast outwards and away from me, propelling the mute high above the orchestra, like a rocket."

However, Paolo was not up on his propulsion physics nor qualified to use high-powered artillery and in his haste to get the horn up before the firecracker went off, he failed to raise the bell of the horn high enough so as to give the mute enough arc to clear the orchestra. What actually happened should serve as a lesson to us all during those delirious moments of divine inspiration. First, because he failed to sufficiently elevate the bell of his horn, the blast propelled the mute between rows of players in the woodwind and viola sections of the orchestra, missing the players and straight into the stomach of the conductor, driving him off the podium and directly into the front row of the audience.

Fortunately, the audience were sitting in folding chairs and thus they were protected from serious injury, for the chairs collapsed under them passing the energy of the impact of the flying conductor backwards into row of people sitting behind them, who in turn were driven back into the people in the row behind and so on, like a row of dominos. The sound of collapsing wooden chairs and grunts of people falling on their behinds increased logarithmically, adding to the overall sound of brass cannons and brass playing as constitutes the closing measures of the Overture.

Meanwhile, all of this unplanned choreography not withstanding, back on stage Paolo's Waterloo was still unfolding. According to Paolo, "Just as he heard the sound of the blast, time seemed to stand still. Everything moved in slow motion. Just before I felt searing pain to my mouth, I could swear I heard a voice with a Austrian accent say "Fur every akshon zer iz un eekvul un opposeet reakshon!" Well, this should come as no surprise, for Paolo had set himself up for a textbook demonstration of this fundamental law of physics. Having failed to plug the lead pipe of his trombone, he allowed the energy of the blast to send a super heated jet of gas backwards through the mouth pipe of the trombone which exited the mouthpiece burning his lips and face.

The pyrotechnic ballet wasn't over yet. The force of the blast was so great it split the bell of his shiny Yamaha right down the middle, turning it inside out while at the same time propelling Paolo backwards off the riser. And for the grand finale, as Paolo fell backwards he lost his grip on the slide of the trombone allowing the pressure of the hot gases coursing through the horn to propel the trombone's slide like a double golden spear into the head of the 3rd clarinetist, knocking him unconscious. The moral of the story? Beware the next time you hear someone in the trombone section yell out "Hey, everyone, watch this!"

[ghmerrill]

Trombazooka. I think Da Vinci invented that. It never got much attention because it's a "one shot only" weapon.

[JohnL]

It boggles the mind that the guy just kept banging away when it became obvious that he was crashing and burning...

[AndrewMeronek]

At the very least he should have given up that lead part. In fact, on such gigs we often pass the lead parts around, but he wanted them all.

At the first sign of real trouble, this should have been the immediate solution.

Actually, I know many exceptionally great, seasoned pros who have absolutely no problem sharing parts, and absolutely will do it if someone else in a section can handle something better than they can - or, just to share the fun and/or save some wear and tear on the chops. As much as we rag on trumpet players, in my experience the trumpeters are actually the most professional about this, trombones less so. Why this seems to be the case, I actually have no idea.

[Posaunus]

Thanks for being so fair about my selfish rant. I was super frustrated and just needed to say it.

One thing to clarify: This wasn't a fun hang, or a community ensemble of hobbyists. I was talking about a professional situation with musicians hired to play an important concert that was being recorded and broadcast, and which cost huge bucks to put on. ...

Anyway, sorry for the rant.

Thanks for the explanation, Dana. Context does make a difference.

Breathe deeply, and have a happy holiday season.

[tbdana]

I can't believe you found the tablet that Moses broke!

[AtomicClock]

1812 overture-please don't try this at home

I guess you DID take 30 years off. This made the rounds in the 90s, back when the internet was young.

[Bach5G]

1812 overture-please don't try this at home

I guess you DID take 30 years off. This made the rounds in the 90s, back when the internet was young.

Thoroughly debunked IIRC.

[Posaunus]

From G Keillor:

https://www.angelfire.com/ia/julievw/orchrules.html

OMG! There was a link at the end to this story:

...

The moral of the story? Beware the next time you hear someone in the trombone section yell out "Hey, everyone, watch this!"

This story reminds me of a personal experience with (one of my heroes) Jay Friedman - known for his decorum - who turned out to be not so strait-laced in his younger days.

[BGuttman]

I guess you DID take 30 years off. This made the rounds in the 90s, back when the internet was young.

Thoroughly debunked IIRC.

Even a topic on Mythbusters. Totally fictional. Still funny, though,

[Kbiggs]

That’s a no-win situation, where everyone looks bad. SOOO frustrating.

Yeah, the Trombazooka was always a nice tall tale, what was called an “urban legend” just a few years ago.

[Doug Elliott]

Was this person:
A. An amateur who just shouldn't have been there
B. A normally good player who was just having a bad day
C. A formerly good player who has lost it

I suspect that I would have taken the book away from him and told him to play 3rd. "It's not my gig" but somebody needed to take charge.

[ghmerrill]

Yeah, the Trombazooka was always a nice tall tale, what was called an “urban legend” just a few years ago.

As a kid in my mid-teens, I tried some similar projectile- and explosive-oriented things that weren't too far from that description. I mean, how many of us haven't experimented with the D-cell pipe cannon?

[tbdana]

Was this person:
A. An amateur who just shouldn't have been there
B. A normally good player who was just having a bad day
C. A formerly good player who has lost it

I suspect that I would have taken the book away from him and told him to play 3rd. "It's not my gig" but somebody needed to take charge.

I'm not sure, but he definitely should not have been there. I suppose A. is the best choice, but I didn't really know him. Definitely not B. Could have been C. for all I know.

Boy, I wish I could have taken the book from him. I'd have had better luck taking a steak from a starving Cane Corso. LOL!

[harrisonreed]

Was this person:
A. An amateur who just shouldn't have been there
B. A normally good player who was just having a bad day
C. A formerly good player who has lost it

I suspect that I would have taken the book away from him and told him to play 3rd. "It's not my gig" but somebody needed to take charge.

I'm not sure, but he definitely should not have been there. I suppose A. is the best choice, but I didn't really know him. Definitely not B. Could have been C. for all I know.

Boy, I wish I could have taken the book from him. I'd have had better luck taking a steak from a starving Cane Corso. LOL!

Just pretend he is instead a Shiba dog like mine:

IMG_20241203_105915.jpg

[tbdana]

Awwww! Love me some Shiba Inu!

[harrisonreed]

Very easy to take things away from her that she shouldn't have!

[baileyman]

Ditto Doug. Revolutions are never legal, but often right.

[harrisonreed]

https://suno.com/song/93c3abca-8ccf-4fb ... 61beaed160

Took a while but the new interface for Suno is not as good as before.

[Doug Elliott]

Maybe a macho thing since Dana was in the section.
That should have been choice D in my list.

[JohnL]

Maybe a macho thing since Dana was in the section.
That should have been choice D in my list.

I was wondering about that, myself.

[Briande]

How funny would it be if the other person involved was reading all this going thinking “man that’s terrible” not realizing it was them!

[tbdana]

Maybe a macho thing since Dana was in the section.
That should have been choice D in my list.

Yeah, could be, I suppose. It fits. I was kinda hoping we had evolved past that, but clearly we have not evolved past a lot of things I hoped we had. I do still have to prove myself every time I play with new people in a way that dudes don't. There's still this tacit assumption out there that chicks can't play and don't belong on manly instruments like the tramboon.

I even developed a special little warmup just for those occasions. Usually my warmup is 10 minutes of long tones and some flexibility exercises. But my special little warmup adds range, speed, and facility exercises. Not because I need them, but just to let people know I belong there. The fact that in 2024 I felt I needed to do that reflects that we're not all "there" yet in our musical culture, though we have come a very long way and are far better off than some arts or activities.

[heldenbone]

Edit: Explanation for this rant in another post below.

If you’re in a section with me, you better bring it.

That’s it. After today's gig, I just had to get that off my chest. Thanks.

/rant

You're beautiful when you're angry.