MK drawing leadpipes

[norbie2018]

I play an Edwards .547 and wish to experiment with other leadpipe materials. After some experimentation with the brass leadpipes included with the instrument (T1, T2, T3), I feel most comfortable on and get a sound closest to my image of a great sound playing the T2.

Which MK leadpipe - the Bach or GR - is equivalent to the T2?

I welcome all opinions, but am especially keen to hear those of people who have actually played on the leadpipes in question.

Thanks!

[norbie2018]

And now I notice on the MK website MK42 & MK42-O leadpipes, but no description details. I'll call them and ask, but does anyone have direct experience with these?

[whitbey]

I have an MK pipe. It is just fine.

I find very little difference from anyone that makes decent leadpipes.

Except......
Does someone have one in stock.

I bought a pipe several months ago. And several makers of pipes never called me back to sell me a pipe.

[Matt K]

Probably have an easier time using a dealership like Dillon, Brassark, Sheridan, Hickeys, etc.

[Bach5G]

There were several thread on MK leadpipes in the past. People were generally pretty happy with them. Might be worth a search.

[norbie2018]

There were several thread on MK leadpipes in the past. People were generally pretty happy with them. Might be worth a search.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I searched them before posting this and could not find a comparison between the 2 leadpipe and their MV42 and GR pipes. I get the impression that the MV42 is similar to a 1, while the GR is closer to a 3, but I wanted to know if anyone could confirm that. They now have a MV42-O which may be a 2 equivalent, but I'm not certain.

I emailed MK after I posted my original post and asked them if the MV42-O was similar to an Edwards 2. The email I received from M/K said they don't compare their pipes to other makers, but I'm welcome to trial their pipes, which I found odd. They make copies of a Bach and (probably) Olds leadpipe and they don't want to compare to other makers?

If anyone has any info on the original question I'd appreciate it.

[Kbiggs]

Leadpipes, like mouthpieces, are all different. While it’s tempting to make comparisons like you sometimes see in mouthpiece comparison charts, it’s basically pointless. EVERYONE’s leadpipes are different, they feel different, and they are made with different designs and philosophies—overall length, venturi size, venturi placement, venturi placement, etc. In other words, ya gotta try ‘em.

I have tried and used some of the M/K pipes, specifically the MV50, GR, and the MV42, in yellow and gold brass. In general, the MV series tends to work better with one piece bells, and the GR series works better with two piece bells. (I believe the fellows who make M&W Trombones also agree with this observation.) However, it really depends on what sound and response you want.

My two cents: the MV pipes sound broader, and tend to emphasize the lower harmonics—they sound “darker.” The GR pipes tend to sound more focused, and tend to emphasize middle (and possibly upper) harmonics. GR’s tend to respond a littler quicker with less delay or “bubble” on the front of the note, while MV’s tend to encourage the player to use a lot of air at the front and throughout the note.

My experience with M/K is that they’ve always been very responsive to calls and emails.

[norbie2018]

Thanks for the input.

One correction: your earlier post (2018?) re these leadpipes stated the above then corrected it by stating the GR pipes are best for unsoldered rims while the MK was better for soldered rims. This was then confirmed by one of the owners of MW Trombones.

[Kbiggs]

Sorry, my confusion. You’re right. It’s soldered vs. unsoldered. I was getting them confused with two piece bells (Conn, Holton) or one piece bells (Bach).

[norbie2018]

No worries. MK drawing got back to me suggesting the MV42 is the tightest, the MV42-O more open, and the GR most open. I ordered a couple of the MV42-O to trial, one in nickel the other bronze, although I may change the bronze one to yellow brass. It is SO difficult to tell from the descriptions what might be a good fit, I just have to pony up the coin and try.

[GBP]

No worries. MK drawing got back to me suggesting the MV42 is the tightest, the MV42-O more open, and the GR most open. I ordered a couple of the MV42-O to trial, one in nickel the other bronze, although I may change the bronze one to yellow brass. It is SO difficult to tell from the descriptions what might be a good fit, I just have to pony up the coin and try.

Yes, I agree. You never know how equipment is going to react until play on it. I have been taking this approach with mouthpieces. If it seems interesting, buy it and find out for sure.

[harrisonreed]

What's wrong with the T2?

[norbie2018]

What's wrong with the T2?

Nothing. As I stated in my OP I want to experiment with leadpipe materials.

[harrisonreed]

I had tried replacing my old t350's 2 pipe with other pipes that fit, but the 2 is hard to beat! Good luck!

[Kbiggs]

2 more cents... and a $1.98 will get you a cup of coffee...

If you tend to play with a hard front to the note, and you have more brilliant sound, and you want to tame the front and “darken” the sound, then a gold/bronze leadpipe MIGHT help. Otherwise, I’d go for yellow.

Just remember that everyone responds a little differently to different leadpipe materials, just like different mouthpieces. Maybe a gold pipe is just right for you...

[norbie2018]

Just an update: Mike Bulow of MK Drawing contacted me. I sent a request to trial the MV42-O in nickel and bronze describing what I was looking for. He sent a very detailed email to narrow down my selection. Put simply, I described what I like in a sound (dense core, lots of overtones) he suggested either yellow brass, rose brass, or sterling; I'm going to trial all three. As has been pointed out, the Edwards T2 is an excellent pipe and the MV42-O is similar; I'm excited to try it in different flavors.

BTW if you listen to Collin Williams and Pete Steiner, these are the trombone sounds I have in my head. Tenor trombone not slide euphonium.

[StickMan]

So, you've had the pipes about a month now norbie2018, how'd you go? Settled on anything?

[norbie2018]

T2. In the end, it has a depth of sound that the other leadpipes lacked, at least for me on my horn.

[Bonearzt]

The only real way to test and find a new lead pipe is to get several and play test them in actual playing situations without knowing which pipe is which.

This method lets your lips and ears tell you which one works rather than your eyes!


Eric

[norbie2018]

The route I took was to record myself playing. I heard for myself the differences in tone color of the different metals. I experienced their response. The upper partials slotted much more easily on the MK pipes but they all lacked the combination of core, upper, middle, and lower overtones that the T2 has. For me, on my instrument. I do not have the ability to set up a recorder in a large concert hall and record there, so I went with my home recording.

Now I'm experimenting with mouthpieces and perhaps will go to the Edwards factory to try other leadpipes from them, seeking that tighter slotting of the upper register that the MK pipes offered. Our I may just stick with the T2. It is great to have options!

MK was wonderful to work with so if you're interested in what they offer I say try them out.

[dukesboneman]

Bonearzt,
That`s the way it used to be at The Brass Lab in NYC
I was there a couple times and Chuck McAlexander would let try and play different leadpipes all day.
All he said was "At 5 I leave If you don`t you`re here until I get in tomorrow morning".
I really like the Edwards t2. I have one in my Mount Vernon 36. Opened it way up from the original pipe.
I just bought a Closet 1976 Silver plated 36B and I`m having a T2 put in it as we speak

[walldaja]

You guys have stoked my interest, ordered a MK GR pipe in yellow brass. Now the suspense of awaiting delivery.

[walldaja]

Received my well packaged MK GR leadpipe today. Compared to my Shires Q 2 pipe it's a little shorter. Overall the appearance of the pipe was excellent and there was absolutely no problem inserting it in my horn. When I blew it I didn't know what to expect. I played a standard (for me) warmup on the Shires 2 then on the MK GR.

What was noticeable was that the MK opened up both the high range and the low range. Top Bb was clear and slotted well. Pedal Bb also slotted much better than the Shires pipe.

Flexibility was great but that was also true of the Shires pipe.

Count me as a satisfied customer!

[TomInME]

Has anyone compared the bass GR with a Shires B2?

[Pozanos]

Has anyone compared the bass GR with a Shires B2?

Yes, I have a bass MK GR in nickel silver, bought it for my Shires Q36GR, so I could compare it with the Shires standard leadpipes. To me its closer to the B3 considering how open it feels but it is more efficient, and definitively plays bigger than than the B2. Somehow it also seals better than any of the original leadpipes, maybe its one of the reasons that the instrument plays better with the MK pipe.
In short for me the GR needs similar air than the B2 but plays bigger and cleaner than the B3, articulations are easier and its more fun to play.

[ghmerrill]

My experience with M/K is that they’ve always been very responsive to calls and emails.

Last year M/K was up to its eyeballs in some big (especially for a small company) business-related projects -- like acquiring Millard Machine to expand their machining capabilities. Also, they were facing something of a labor shortage. Rebecca was doing her best in trying to keep up with requests, but it was pretty intense. My impression is that the dust finally settled on all that in December, but some things may have slipped between the cracks in terms of getting back to people.

If you try contacting them again, I suspect you'll get a better response. But overall -- as mentioned -- you've really got to try a leadpipe to see how it works for you in your horn. Comparisons among them are always vaguely phrased, somewhat poetic, and provide only a rough idea. M/K has a trial program, although it was at least partially suspended during the acquisition activity.

[TomInME]

Yes, I have a bass MK GR in nickel silver, bought it for my Shires Q36GR, so I could compare it with the Shires standard leadpipes. To me its closer to the B3 considering how open it feels but it is more efficient, and definitively plays bigger than than the B2. Somehow it also seals better than any of the original leadpipes, maybe its one of the reasons that the instrument plays better with the MK pipe.
In short for me the GR needs similar air than the B2 but plays bigger and cleaner than the B3, articulations are easier and its more fun to play.

Interesting - thanks for posting. I recently got a B2 in nickel, and it's cleaner / clearer than the yellow brass version. But you answered the part I was really wondering about: where the aperture fits in the numeric scale. Given that the B3 is reported to be not good, the GR sounds like an interesting alternative.

Also makes sense that the nickel worked well with your Q836GR horn, there's a lot of stuff about gold brass bells pairing better with nickel slides. Mine is also gold brass and I'm about to order a nickel slide to get it closer to its original configuration.

[ghmerrill]

I'm using an M/K nickel MV50 (press fit) in my horn and absolutely love it. I have one of the (nickel) GR pipes, and it's okay for me, but not quite really "there". I also have one of the BrassArk /B.Close MV50 pipes in seamless red brass (no longer available) that I used for several years and like a lot. But the nickel M/K MV50 is just better for the jazz band I'm playing in exclusively now. Great sound and articulation.

[mrdeacon]

I’m a very big fan of the MK Drawing GR bass pipes. I’ve gotten both a really good yellow brass and sterling pipe from them.

Only thing to note is there is sometimes inconsistency with the mouthpiece insertion depth between the pipes. I usually order a couple pipes and keep the 1 or 2 I like then sell the rest.

[TomInME]

Had the chance to try a GR nickel yesterday very briefly (didn't have the right threads and I didn't want to wreck my slide or the pipe), it's definitely more open-sounding than the Shires B2, but not a huge amount - I wouldn't say it's as big as the 2.5. It was also short, so it felt more flexible.

I may have a B2S to try in the not-too-distant future, I imagine they're similar but with the GR being a bit more open.