Help with Rochut No 9

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jimazing
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Help with Rochut No 9

Post by jimazing »

I need help on bar 54 with the G octaves. I can play it but I can't seem to play it without the in between partials making a contribution. My best attempts but the high G solid, but sounds bumpy on the way up.

I don't want to practice it wrong over and over in hopes of getting it right. That seems like reinforcing the problem. Any pointers or thoughts?
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Doug Elliott
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Re: Help with Rochut No 9

Post by Doug Elliott »

Say "wee" on the way up.
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hyperbolica
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Re: Help with Rochut No 9

Post by hyperbolica »

You might also try playing something on the beats, like repeat the lower G. Or just practice it out of context with slurred 1/8th notes octave Gs - low g high g low g high g....
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Re: Help with Rochut No 9

Post by JLivi »

One thing I like to practice is the same passage in different keys.

Play the passage a couple of times correctly in G then move it down in 1/2 steps (Gb, F (6th), and maybe even E (7th)). Then make your way back up in 1/2 steps until you get back to G. The move it up (Ab, A and Bb), and then come back down. By that point you would've play this passage in many keys multiple times and hopefully have the physical concept down along with the octaves in your ear.

But really, just do what Doug said, "weee"
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brassmedic
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Re: Help with Rochut No 9

Post by brassmedic »

Something that helps me with upward slurs is thinking about emphasizing the lower note rather than laying for the top note. Seems counterintuitive but it works for me.
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MrHCinDE
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Re: Help with Rochut No 9

Post by MrHCinDE »

Out of interest, who plays this all in 4th (with adjustments as necessary) and who plays the G on short 2nd?
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harrisonreed
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Re: Help with Rochut No 9

Post by harrisonreed »

I would play the G's in 4th (these octaves shouldn't need an adjustment unless your backbore is "wrong"), but not the A.

A in 4th is best for really fast stuff, especially including Bb's. I'm pretty sure I use it in the solo from Chicago's "Free".
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Doug Elliott
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Re: Help with Rochut No 9

Post by Doug Elliott »

I pretty.much never play high G in 4th. I think it would be more secure going from 4th to #2, and backing off on the air. Which is in line with what brassmedic said, emphasizing the lower note, but I don't look at it that way.
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hyperbolica
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Re: Help with Rochut No 9

Post by hyperbolica »

Moving 4-2 automatically gives the second note a boost. And if I could suggest something I do that's similar but slightly different from Doug, I add a little H in there, so something like WHEE, but as Doug says, without emphasizing the top note. By raising the tongue, you need a little kick in there to push out the air through the smaller aperture, but without accenting it.
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VJOFan
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Re: Help with Rochut No 9

Post by VJOFan »

The intensity changes mentioned above make sense from my own practice.

Have you played the octaves out of context? Change the passage to all quarter notes in 4/4 and slur it all together.

A next step would be to add a quarter rest before each lower G so you can introduce the articulation. If that is working, practice the rhythm of the piece, then add the pitches.

And I would avoid breathing or lifting the mouthpiece during this section.
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elmsandr
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Re: Help with Rochut No 9

Post by elmsandr »

harrisonreed wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 6:34 am I would play the G's in 4th (these octaves shouldn't need an adjustment unless your backbore is "wrong"), but not the A.

A in 4th is best for really fast stuff, especially including Bb's. I'm pretty sure I use it in the solo from Chicago's "Free".
*backbore not matched well to the horn. Same mpc/backbore taper may not function the same in different horns. Works great on the 50.. the 45 is all out of whack here.

But, yeah, I would only move the slide here to force myself to get into it a little if I’m missing the top G a lot. And I’d be mad about it, too. I’m, uh, not going to pull this out now, because I don’t want to be mad at myself today…

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tbdana
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Re: Help with Rochut No 9

Post by tbdana »

I always would play both Gs in 4th position on this. I'm all about efficiency, especially slide efficiency. If I can play two notes in the same position, that's what I do.

When I slur octaves I play a little psychological trick on myself. I don't think of it as a slur, because then I get the partials leaking in. I think of it as a leap, and all my concentration is on the upper note and having the feel for that note. Another psychological trick that works for me in this is thinking "down to the high note," if that makes any sense. Thinking down while going up helps me center where the note is, and lets me avoid those intermediate partials.

Of course, I'm usually out of step with the hive mind here, so do your own thing and understand that your mileage may vary.
cmccain
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Re: Help with Rochut No 9

Post by cmccain »

I can't offer much that hasn't already been said here, but if you have the Arban Method book, "Studies on the Slur" Exercises #11, #12, and #13 became part of my daily routine when I worked on Rochut No 9. Might be a good warm-up before/along with targeting the octave jump itself.
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