Large bass mouthpieces

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TomInME
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Large bass mouthpieces

Post by TomInME »

I'm on a journey to find the perfect-for-me-and-my-current-needs mouthpiece and have landed in the Bach 1G zone, but am finding the rim is uncomfortably narrow.
What out there is super-close to the 1G (cup, throat, backbore) but with a more comfortable rim? I don't want extra wide, just something that doesn't bite so deep into my face. Everything else I'm willing to work with.

GB 1G #2 felt very close and the rim was nice but articulations felt a little too punchy (I'm a little punchy already) with a sound a bit darker than I wanted, and it wasn't quite as free-blowing as the Bach (something I need). Very tempted to try it with the standard throat/backbore though - worth it? Any other ideas?
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Burgerbob
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Re: Large bass mouthpieces

Post by Burgerbob »

A standard 1 1/8G will be closer to the Bach 1G rim size, thicker rim, similar throat.
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Kbiggs
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Re: Large bass mouthpieces

Post by Kbiggs »

Sounds like you’re looking for the Holy Grail, like most everyone else! Ha ha.

If you’ve already tried a GB 1G and you like the rim size and shape, then perhaps one of GB’s other variations would be next. Like you mentioned, he has a standard backbore (#1). He also offers a 1GS which is slightly shallower, and can be made with a #1 or a #2 backbore.

Also, your profile shows that you have a DE 112 L. Why not try a 114 rim? Maybe even his XB line?

Other popular mouthpieces with a similar rim size* that people have tried through the years: Doug Elliott LB or XB series (114 rim), Schilke 6.0, Laskey 90, and perhaps one of the Griego Artist lines (Pagano 6.0, Taylor 0.5, or Markey 90).

____
*Comparison charts are notoriously inaccurate—specs matter less than “face feel” and response.
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I have known a great many troubles, but most of them have never happened.
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BGuttman
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Re: Large bass mouthpieces

Post by BGuttman »

Merged two topics and deleted duplicate post.
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TomInME
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Re: Large bass mouthpieces

Post by TomInME »

Kbiggs wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:46 am If you’ve already tried a GB 1G and you like the rim size and shape, then perhaps one of GB’s other variations would be next. Like you mentioned, he has a standard backbore (#1). He also offers a 1GS which is slightly shallower, and can be made with a #1 or a #2 backbore.
I did mention a few other differences, but a 1 or 1 1/8 G/GS in the .316 bore is probably worth trying. But that's $1,000.00 to try all four variants (and more to try different weights).
Kbiggs wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:46 am Also, your profile shows that you have a DE 112 L. Why not try a 114 rim? Maybe even his XB line?
The DE L/L8 just didn't want to open up on CC/BB, and seemed too bright on everything else. Upper register felt stiff too. It's possible an L10 shank could make a difference but I don't know if it would be enough. (also seems like Doug has been pretty busy lately though)
Kbiggs wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:46 am Other popular mouthpieces with a similar rim size* that people have tried through the years: Doug Elliott LB or XB series (114 rim), Schilke 6.0, Laskey 90, and perhaps one of the Griego Artist lines (Pagano 6.0, Taylor 0.5, or Markey 90).
That's the laundry list, I'd like to know how they compare to a 1G beyond having a similar cup width.

I've been cruising the used listings but that's hit or miss, and a very slow process. I was hoping there's a wealth of knowledge and experience among the members here that will help me focus on a shorter list of possibilities.
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Re: Large bass mouthpieces

Post by GabrielRice »

In no particular order...

Doug's XB series opens up the feel a surprisingly large amount compared to the LB, while keeping most of the easy focus.

The standard backbore on Greg Black's large bass pieces is not the #1 but the #3. The #1 is tighter still than the #2. If the 1G .312 #2 is both too dark and too punchy for you, his standard .316 throat and backbore is the wrong direction. And much more difficult to play in the high register (at least for me). There is also a 0 backbore that tends to work better with smaller throats. I have one with a .295 throat. It's interesting.

Tom, remind me to bring some things from home when we meet up next month.

In addition to others mentioned, you might like the Hammond 21BL or the Schilke M6.0. Schilke now also makes an M6.0d with a smaller .3125 throat, which would have been very interesting to me before I settled on my Doug Elliott setups.
TomInME
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Re: Large bass mouthpieces

Post by TomInME »

Thanks Gabe! "More open" is the thing the 1G is giving me that I seem to need/want most, so if the XB opens things up I'll give that a shot (if I can get a hold of Doug). I thought it was the same dimensions but heavier.
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Re: Large bass mouthpieces

Post by LIBrassCo »

www.librassco.com

EON 800 series would be Bach 1g sized.
Check out our new bass trombone doubling mouthpieces: https://www.librassco.com/broadway-bass
TomInME
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Re: Large bass mouthpieces

Post by TomInME »

LIBrassCo wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 8:37 pm www.librassco.com

EON 800 series would be Bach 1g sized.
In which respects? Cup width, cup depth, cup shape, throat, backbore, rim shape, rim width?
I'd be interested in some details about your throats/backbores.
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Re: Large bass mouthpieces

Post by LIBrassCo »

TomInME wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 9:27 pm
LIBrassCo wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 8:37 pm www.librassco.com

EON 800 series would be Bach 1g sized.
In which respects? Cup width, cup depth, cup shape, throat, backbore, rim shape, rim width?
I'd be interested in some details about your throats/backbores.
Cup ID is 28mm, which is the same. Everything else will be my design, and the specs should be listed for you, in fact I think there's even a model image of the interior on there. The line has a .240" rim, so wider than a Bach, but not wide per se. Don't get too bogged down with the rest of the specs, it's how the total package plays that matters. My mouthpieces share zero DNA with other brands, other than they are partly made of brass and go into a trombone, lol.
Check out our new bass trombone doubling mouthpieces: https://www.librassco.com/broadway-bass
TomInME
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Re: Large bass mouthpieces

Post by TomInME »

LIBrassCo wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 5:12 am
TomInME wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 9:27 pm

In which respects? Cup width, cup depth, cup shape, throat, backbore, rim shape, rim width?
I'd be interested in some details about your throats/backbores.
Cup ID is 28mm, which is the same. Everything else will be my design, and the specs should be listed for you, in fact I think there's even a model image of the interior on there. The line has a .240" rim, so wider than a Bach, but not wide per se. Don't get too bogged down with the rest of the specs, it's how the total package plays that matters. My mouthpieces share zero DNA with other brands, other than they are partly made of brass and go into a trombone, lol.
Without getting bogged down in specs, how does it compare with a 1G? Does it feel as deep or wide? Does it sound darker or brighter? Is the high range more slotted or more flexible? Is the midrange more focused or more open? Are the pedals bigger or more centered?
This information would be more influencial for purchasing decisions than sales pitches about special sauce.
LIBrassCo
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Re: Large bass mouthpieces

Post by LIBrassCo »

TomInME wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 7:04 am
LIBrassCo wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 5:12 am

Cup ID is 28mm, which is the same. Everything else will be my design, and the specs should be listed for you, in fact I think there's even a model image of the interior on there. The line has a .240" rim, so wider than a Bach, but not wide per se. Don't get too bogged down with the rest of the specs, it's how the total package plays that matters. My mouthpieces share zero DNA with other brands, other than they are partly made of brass and go into a trombone, lol.
Without getting bogged down in specs, how does it compare with a 1G? Does it feel as deep or wide? Does it sound darker or brighter? Is the high range more slotted or more flexible? Is the midrange more focused or more open? Are the pedals bigger or more centered?
This information would be more influencial for purchasing decisions than sales pitches about special sauce.
The design itself overall will allow easier access to the range of the instrument, with a large, dark sound. Response on my stuff is significant better that anything out there, especially with one of the more focused shanks. Depending what you are looking for, the B2 shanks will have a lot of focus with crazy fast response, the B3 will have a wider more orchestral sound, and the B4 will be a little wider, with the added benefit of less back pressure. I'm sure at this point it's pretty clear shank selection really depends what you like in your sound, and it's also common for players to have more than one shank option in their stable.

The mouthpiece will feel larger, mostly do to both the physically wider rim, and the way I do my radius coming off the rim into the cup. It's not uncommon for players to go a size down to mitigate this.
Last edited by LIBrassCo on Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Check out our new bass trombone doubling mouthpieces: https://www.librassco.com/broadway-bass
TomInME
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Re: Large bass mouthpieces

Post by TomInME »

Thanks!
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Re: Large bass mouthpieces

Post by LIBrassCo »

TomInME wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:29 amThanks!
Anytime! If you'd like any additional information shoot me an email through my site with your number and I'll give a call.
Check out our new bass trombone doubling mouthpieces: https://www.librassco.com/broadway-bass
TomInME
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Re: Large bass mouthpieces

Post by TomInME »

GabrielRice wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 8:09 pm Doug's XB series opens up the feel a surprisingly large amount compared to the LB, while keeping most of the easy focus.
Correct as usual, Gabe.
Doug set me up with a XB114/L*/L10 configuration (*the cup has a star stamped on it) and at first glance it's doing all the things the LB112/L/L8 wasn't. The high register is smoother, and the sound is less bright overall but still very focused. The pedal register isn't like a 1G (of course) but the trigger BB is actually better: almost as easy to hit out of nowhere, and more core/centered. This was my main goal in moving away from the 1.25GM, so I might be in the Goldilocks zone with this setup.

I tried the L10 shank on the LB also and it still balked on loud trigger BB's. The XB cup is definitely roomier but not a huge step - maybe that's why it has the star.

Side note: I tried a Griego .5 for a couple weeks, very convenient in the pedals and double-triggers but way too dark for big band and I found the intonation a little odd. Inner edge of the rim could have been more rounded for my tastes also. An improvement on the 1G in most respects, but definitely not an all-around mouthpiece.
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