TBC at ATW 2023

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Matt K
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TBC at ATW 2023

Post by Matt K »

Or at least I'll be there, Friday and Saturday. I owe about 10 people a response to something and been on fire at work, but plan on shutting down at 6 EST today and then getting to as many as I can.

If anyone has had technical issues and wants to show me in-person, send me a message, and happy to meet up at ATW to troubleshoot or take care of issues.
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Re: TBC at ATW 2023

Post by Matt K »

Saw a bunch of people at ATW today, some member some not!

Brought by bass because I’ve been playing it recently and thinking it was too big for me being a weekend warrior now. Played around and I changed my mind, which is always good :lol: But I did try a bunch of pieces smaller than my 114 I normally play bass on. Picked ip a Long Island Brass one around a 1.5G size:
0EAB451E-2DCC-431C-8D66-C63F9A416076.jpeg
I was skeptical about some of the exotic pieces he’s got because they aren’t metal. Love lexan/acrylic/delrin rims but usually more “not metal” doesn’t work so well. This one is indistinguishable to me. The slightly smaller size vs what I’m normally on lets me get around the horn pretty easily and I’m surprised at how easy the lower register comes too. Speaks very easily. Going to try out some others tomorrow in a similar size.

Tried out everything on the floor so far except Shilke, Edwards, and Yamaha.

Tried a bunch of Shires stuff at their booth. I totally get the hype for the Marshall Gilkes horn. The Q series, which I hadn’t played in any serious capacity since they came out were really good too. I was really surprised by the Q alto. I’m not a great alto player and normally my slide technique is not great (imprecise slide locations, so intonation is weird). Their altos did not have that issue. Also tried a Twin rotor for the first time. Very interesting blow. Kind of in between a Thayer for breadth but a little crispness of the rotor.

The Thein sales people were super nice and didn’t recoil in horror when I tried their Contra. If I ever win the lottery, that’ll be the first purchase I make. Id really not played contra before and it’s a lot of fun. Took 5 or so minutes to figure out the positions :lol: Played their American style instrument with the Thayer and it played like a really great 42, so not my speed but very good! They had a .488 small bore that sounded like a medium bore but felt like the smaller bore. Very easy to play.

The Courtouis booth had all of their models loosely based off the 42 and 50, with Hagmanns. Also thought those played really well. If I were in the market for a bass and didn’t have mine it would certainly be high on my list.

Baltimore brass is there. Turns out one of the managers there is an old friend of mine. They’ve got some really cool stuff in stock. (Independent tenor valves on a 1G bell played great!). Played a 350C for the first time from them. I can see the criticism of it although the one they have plays really nice. Have a couple good playing Edwards in stock.

Will report the rest tomorrow!
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Re: TBC at ATW 2023

Post by hyperbolica »

Matt K wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 5:33 pm Played a 350C for the first time from them. I can see the criticism of it although the one they have plays really nice.
That 350c is mine. If they don't sell it tomorrow, I'm talking it home with me. After playing a 455 for a while the 350c isn't so bad. Not that it was bad, just a little... Off. Anyway, it's a nice horn for what it is.

The only horn i played there was the Greenhoe GC2. Really nice horn. Completely even response over the range. Wow.
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Re: TBC at ATW 2023

Post by Matt K »

I agree, it’s a great horn. Probably the most similar to my Shires 2RVET7. Good to see the Schilke shop is keeping quality high. I also liked their Bachish version too.

Spent a bunch of time at the Edwards booth. Favorite horn was the Getzen 4047ET. A bit different than anything else they offer. Very flexible and efficient. Bousfield was also a really great player too. Tried the Harmojic pillars on both of those and a 350 with Thayers (Toby Oft) and the 396. Both of these seem to be really consistent across registers and dynamic ranges which threw me off a lot at first since it’s a departure from what I’m used to. The pillars did a disturbingly good job at mitigating that. I’ve tried them before and didn’t notice much difference but that was probably 10 years ago at this point. It wasn’t quite as much as a leadpipe change but very noticeable. Good enough that they’d be worth bringing and fine-tuning the resonance you want everywhere you play imo. Incidentally, The 4047ET has a short, sterling pipe by default which may have been one of the reasons I liked it so much.

The Yamaha stuff was surprising. I'd been off and on Yamaha for awhile. My first horns were all Yamaha (354, 446, 8820). Played a 356G for awhile too. Someone mentioned the closed wrap 8820 was different than the open wrap and I noticed that too. Of the large bores, it was also my favorite. They seem to be fixing the “boringness” that I used to ascribe to the instruments. They had a 630, which was one of the only medium bores on the whole floor as best I can tell. I’ve always thought the medium bores were the best of the Yamaha lineup and I don’t think they’ve done much to change that! They did have small bores and basses out that were a bit of a departure from what I’d experienced in the past. The small bores, both the 891 and 897 had screw bell versions that blew the non screw bell out of the water for me. The smaller of the two (897?) in particular has a really nice, clear / bright (but not TOO bright) sound but was really big sounding, despite feeling like a smallish horn. Likewise, their basses had screw bell versions that had similar characteristics. They had a really nice integrated thumb rest too that was tied in with the brace that holds the linkage in place.

I forgot to mention that the Courtouis instruments also had a nice, integrated thimbrest in my comment yesterday as well.

Played the horns in the Adams booth too. Felt like the tenors were mostly patterned after Bachs. Not much to add other than they played pretty well much like some of the other instruments patterned after Bachs by other manufacturers. Had a really nice playing alto. They had a straight and one with Bb valve; valve was a little squirrelly. So much so that I’m pretty sure someone must have damaged it on the show or got something stuck in it. But the Eb side locked in really well.

Speaking of, I was actually impressed by basically all the alsos I played, I went around and played them all separately since I didn’t play them much yesterday. Yamaha, Adams, Shires Q, and Thein. (Maybe one other? I feel like I’m forgetting something). Id have to be better at Eb before I would make a decision; I thought all of them worked well. Picking a favorite would be really hard if for no other reason than the design of some is pretty unique. The thein, for example, is .528” and the Yamaha is what .”472? That’s just hard to compare.

Also looked at the cases that Hickeys has. The Marcus Bonna screw bell case is REALLY nice. If they had a bass version, I’d probably be walking away with one so it’s possibly for the best that they do not. It’s about the size of the Chronkhite flight case. Very compact and very light but seems to offer good protection.

I’ve been playing some of Doug’s new designs throughout the pandemic and he’s got some updates even since then that are definitely worth trying out. His 10 series shanks work superbly for dual bore horns which I almost exclusively play. Settled on an SB107/SB I/I10 to compare with the LiB piece I got yesterday. Probably use both situationally. Now that I’m mostly playing tenor, the LB114 is been on is just more maintainance than I was to do. The shallow cup and small rim seems to work really well with my otherwise larger bass.

Great student performances so far like mentioned. Jazz winners last night, just saw University of Kentucky and Eastman is about to go on stage.
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Re: TBC at ATW 2023

Post by Matt K »

Eastman Trombone Choir was absolutely fantastic. Started with a superb arrangement of Toccata and Fugue in D minor. Great selection of works throughout the concert too. Tasteful use of contra sprinkled throughout too.
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Re: TBC at ATW 2023

Post by harrisonreed »

You mentioned the harmonic pillars. Those things are dope. If you get a chance to try the 396 again, try the "2" copper on the bell side, pointing down towards the flare, and the long copper in the middle, pointing up towards the tuning slide, screwed in about 1/4 of the way. I've found that I can adjust my horn to any acoustic now by changing the depth of the long screw. If the room is really dead, like ATW, putting the long copper in all the way works really well.

Sounds like you're getting your money's worth man!
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Re: TBC at ATW 2023

Post by EriKon »

Really jealous of Matt's descriptions. Wish I could be there! Sounds awesome!
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Re: TBC at ATW 2023

Post by Matt K »

Definitely got my admission price worth :biggrin: Would have been worth it alone just to see the Capitol Bones!

Yeah the harmonic pillars were interesting, Jesse (the Edwards rep) had me try out a bunch of permutations between placement, pillar length/size, direction. Really fascinating to see how much of a difference it made, but the 4047ET was just unreal even in comparison to the 396. I wonder if they put the full harmonic pillar on one instead of the single node how different it would be. Interestingly, now all three of those models have removable pipes instead of being fixed, so you can tweak even more. Given how customizable the pillars are, I'm surprised they hvaen't tried a 525/547 or 525 in a Getzen model with small & large leadpipe options. Or... I suppose perhaps they have... but that would be a really be another level. With a full set of Harmonic pillars and the ability to do small & large shank pieces, I really suspect that would start to encroach into territory that is typically hard to get out of a large bore. Of course, I suppose one could just get a T327 slide and pair it with the T350HB or T350-CR-E.
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Re: TBC at ATW 2023

Post by GrecoTrombone »

Matt K wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 5:33 pm Baltimore brass is there. Turns out one of the managers there is an old friend of mine.
And I hope to see you this year too!
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Re: TBC at ATW 2023

Post by Matt K »

I’ll be there at least two days maybe three :mrgreen:
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Re: TBC at ATW 2023

Post by harrisonreed »

I wish I could go this year ... :(
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Re: TBC at ATW 2023 now 2024

Post by timothy42b »

Warning, the gate access is a little harder this year. You can only get one day online, and you have to go in person to the visitor center for more.

And my retiree ID no longer gives access, so I have to go through the process too.
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Re: TBC at ATW 2023

Post by harrisonreed »

If only it was held in a large city with ample convention spaces owned by the US Government.
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Re: TBC at ATW 2023 now 2024

Post by dbwhitaker »

timothy42b wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 6:08 am Warning, the gate access is a little harder this year. You can only get one day online, and you have to go in person to the visitor center for more.
Can someone explain this? I plan on attending this year for the first time. Nothing on the ATW registration page (or registration confirmation) mentions anything about gate access.

Another question: is ATW registration required in order to attend just one evening concert? (Asking this for a friend.)
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Re: TBC at ATW 2023

Post by BGuttman »

ATW is on an active military base. Access must be through a guarded gate and your presence must be expected (i.e. register in advance). You may be required to provide proof of US citizenship.

Sometimes certain gates to the base will not accept ATW attendees. Make sure you know which gates are OK.

Tim can probably explain better; he's attended way more than I have.
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Re: TBC at ATW 2023

Post by Doug Elliott »

Here's the easiest way to find it:

GPS to the 7-11 at:
2311 2nd St S, Arlington, VA 22204
That gets you close. Look at it on Google Maps.

The 2nd St bridge goes over Rt 50 directly into Ft Myer. Show you ID, stop in the buiding to fill out whatever paperwork they require this year, get your car inspected. Turn right on the road you came in on, then left on McNair Rd and go about a half mile to the band building on the left and large parking lot on the right. On the way you will pass the Community Center where the exhibits are.
"I know a thing or two because I've seen a thing or two."
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Re: TBC at ATW 2023 now 2024

Post by timothy42b »

dbwhitaker wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2024 10:11 am
timothy42b wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 6:08 am Warning, the gate access is a little harder this year. You can only get one day online, and you have to go in person to the visitor center for more.
Can someone explain this? I plan on attending this year for the first time. Nothing on the ATW registration page (or registration confirmation) mentions anything about gate access.

Another question: is ATW registration required in order to attend just one evening concert? (Asking this for a friend.)
I've attended many ETW/ATW functions, and been on base for a number of visits related to my work as an Army Public Works employee. In the past my civilian DoD retiree ID worked at all gates (plus 24 hours access to the gym.) Alas, the retiree ID program no longer exists. So this year I follow the regular civilian rules. I'm going to cut-and-paste a snip from the base website:
REQUESTING ACCESS TO JBM-HH
When requesting base access online:
- Online access request applications are for a 24-hour pass only.

- Please request online no more than 14 days ahead or less than three days prior to the date access is needed.

- One email address can be linked to one active request at a time.

- You can submit a pass request using Gmail; however, due to Gmail's advanced security settings, the emails
containing approved passes may get sent to spam or be blocked entirely.

- If you do not receive an email response within 24 to 72 hours, check your spam folder.

- Active requests begin when you enter your information online and end when the pass expires.

- If approved, you will receive your pass via email. It MUST BE PRINTED when you come to the installation.

- If you do not get an email response within 24 to 72 hours, get a denial, or have any questions call the VCC during regular business hours at 703-696-0186/0189 for assistance.


Request a 24-hour base access pass by visiting: https://pass.aie.army.mil/jbmhh/
That seems pretty clear and not that hard to comply with. Get a pass online for the first day, and get your three day pass from the visitor center when you're there. But the visitor center hours are business hours only, so if you show up in the evening or on Saturday without a pass you probably won't get in. I don't know if you really need the registration but I suspect it will make the process at the VCC smoother.

It is an active military installation and the music program is a pretty small part of the missions there, so it's not hard to understand that security procedures can change.
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Re: TBC at ATW 2023

Post by timothy42b »

BGuttman wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2024 12:43 pm ATW is on an active military base. Access must be through a guarded gate and your presence must be expected (i.e. register in advance). You may be required to provide proof of US citizenship.

Sometimes certain gates to the base will not accept ATW attendees. Make sure you know which gates are OK.

Tim can probably explain better; he's attended way more than I have.
There are 5 or 6 gates but there's only one you can get in without official ID, the one at 2cnd street and 27 that Doug described.
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Re: TBC at ATW 2023

Post by BGuttman »

Thanks, Tim. This is very similar to what I needed when I played a Promotion at Hanscom AFB in Mass (the commanding general got an extra star). The officer in charge of the band gave a list of all players to the Visitor Center and we had to check in there. I was restricted in the areas of the base I could travel through.
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Re: TBC at ATW 2023

Post by MBurner »

You can get a visitor pass for ATW at the following site:

https://pass.aie.army.mil/jbmhh/

Follow the instructions. Or, go to the visitor center at Ft. Myer.
You’ll want to go to Hatfield Gate, which the location to is as follows: https://maps.apple.com/?address=Second% ... 20Gate&t=m

You can try to go to the other gates. You’ll not be allowed in. Hatfield hate is the only one that supports visitors. There at the Hatfield gate you’ll be instructed towards the visitor center, where you’ll apply for a visitor pass. You will need a valid U.S. ID or a passport of your country of origin. Individuals under 18 will not need a visitor pass. You can ask for a 3 day pass so that you don’t have to do the process each day. Tell the people that work there you’re going to the American Trombone Workshop and they should work with you.

Food options are fairly limited on JBMHH; Subway/Starbucks, a Panda Express, and ye olde Bowling Alley (great times, good food, their slogan!). Plan accordingly, or plan to explore better options through the greater Arlington area.

Brucker hall will not be the central location of events this year due to building renovations. Please check back to the ATW website the next few days to see final locations for events:
Spates Hall
Community Center
Conmy Hall

If anyone has more questions feel free to reach out.
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Re: TBC at ATW 2023 now 2024

Post by MBurner »

Another question: is ATW registration required in order to attend just one evening concert? (Asking this for a friend.)
We request that you do! It helps us prepare for how many individuals may attend (which helps our tech and setup team) and lets us track how many people attend! The military loves numbers!
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Re: TBC at ATW 2023

Post by Trav1s »

Matt K wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 12:12 pm
Spent a bunch of time at the Edwards booth. Favorite horn was the Getzen 4047ET. A bit different than anything else they offer. Very flexible and efficient. Bousfield was also a really great player too. Tried the Harmojic pillars on both of those and a 350 with Thayers (Toby Oft) and the 396. Both of these seem to be really consistent across registers and dynamic ranges which threw me off a lot at first since it’s a departure from what I’m used to. The pillars did a disturbingly good job at mitigating that. I’ve tried them before and didn’t notice much difference but that was probably 10 years ago at this point. It wasn’t quite as much as a leadpipe change but very noticeable. Good enough that they’d be worth bringing and fine-tuning the resonance you want everywhere you play imo. Incidentally, The 4047ET has a short, sterling pipe by default which may have been one of the reasons I liked it so much.
I played the Edwards line at a different event but wanted to comment - Your observations are similar to mine. (I used my DE LT102/F+/G8 mouthpiece for the playing) The Getzen ET is flexible, efficient, and crazy consistent. It's what I would call a great Bach without the quirks - nice horn but not my thing. I love the play of the Bousfield - it just works for me but my sound is lacking something on that horn. Conn faithfully reinterpreted for the 21st century. (Honestly, I want to try a yellow brass bell version of the IB) Jumped back and forth between the ET and IB for quite some time, including swapping slides and bells around. Tied the 1047FN and was impressed with it - consistent, easy playing, and a solid choice for an intermediate/high school student. After more time with the ET and IB and impression was the same. Then Jesse suggested 350-CR-E... and suddenly I found the large bore tenor sound I have been chasing for 30 years. After relaxing into the horn, I felt like the just right between the ET and IB. I walked away and returned several times during the event and continued to find the CR-E to be the "just right."

Overall, the Edwards/Getzen stuff continues to impress me with consistency, easy of playing, and efficiency. Way different than the 300 series trumpet I played in elementary school.
Travis B.
Trombone player since 1986 and Conn-vert since 2006
1961 24H - LT101/C+/D2
1969 79H - LT102/D/D4
1972 80H - Unicorn
Benge 165F LT102/F+/G8
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