7th position scratchiness

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Basie1955
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7th position scratchiness

Post by Basie1955 »

I’ve got a couple horns with fast and smooth slides but
between 6th and 7th they bind up a bit and there’s
some metal on metal scratchiness. I know this is common
issue especially for players who don’t play a whole lot
out there. Of course the awkward slide weight there
probably causes alignment issues over time but I’d appreciate
some thoughts on this. Seems like a lot of players lift the weight
ever so slightly in that extended area. But if overdone
it will start bending things out of alignment.

Thanks
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harrisonreed
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Re: 7th position scratchiness

Post by harrisonreed »

My thought on it -- I avoid 7th as much as possible. It's there for low C and for the rare occasion that it makes a passage easier. I don't think the trombone sounds particularly great in 7th.

When you do use it, you can angle the horn down which will reduce the stress on the tubes.
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BGuttman
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Re: 7th position scratchiness

Post by BGuttman »

Remember that in 7th position you are riding on the stocking, which has a tighter clearance to the outer slide than any of the rest of the slide.

If you have a dent or out of round condition near the brace end of the outer slide it will tend to catch on the stocking.

Also, sometimes the soldering of the oversleeves or the slide brace can cause a "bump" inside the slide that will tend to catch on the stocking.

A good tech should be able to troubleshoot this issue.
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
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Basie1955
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Re: 7th position scratchiness

Post by Basie1955 »

I believe I’m riding on the stocking in every position.
But I get your meaning.
Basie1955
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Re: 7th position scratchiness

Post by Basie1955 »

harrisonreed wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 4:37 pm My thought on it -- I avoid 7th as much as possible. It's there for low C and for the rare occasion that it makes a passage easier. I don't think the trombone sounds particularly great in 7th.

When you do use it, you can angle the horn down which will reduce the stress on the tubes.
I like the angle down.
You meant low B in 7th.
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harrisonreed
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Re: 7th position scratchiness

Post by harrisonreed »

Basie1955 wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 5:04 pm I like the angle down.
You meant low B in 7th.
No, C below the staff. If you have a horn with no valve, you better get real good at playing in 7th lol. I play 7th position notes all the time, but I use the quart valve.
Basie1955
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Re: 7th position scratchiness

Post by Basie1955 »

harrisonreed wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 5:15 pm
Basie1955 wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 5:04 pm I like the angle down.
You meant low B in 7th.
No, C below the staff. If you have a horn with no valve, you better get real good at playing in 7th lol. I play 7th position notes all the time, but I use the quart valve.
Ha! Gotcha. I’m referring to a straight tenor.
No added plumbing.
AtomicClock
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Re: 7th position scratchiness

Post by AtomicClock »

I've played around a little with dipping the horn - just a slight downward jerk - to lighten the handslide when getting out of seventh. But mostly, I do what Harrison suggests.

It occurs to me that seventh position should be much easier in free fall. Have any astronauts taken a trombone to the ISS?
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ghmerrill
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Re: 7th position scratchiness

Post by ghmerrill »

I just went through this with my '47 Olds Standard. Everything great except some drag/scratchiness down around 6th/7th. Cleaned it unmercifully several times. No better. Each side individually was smooth. Finally took it to my slide guy. He started by inspecting it and ruminating about physics and gravity. Then did a laying on of hands -- said the upper was just a tiny bit out of line with the lower. $20. Fixed, on the spot. Cased it up and went home. Of course, there can always be several causes for something like this. But if you take it to a good slide person you will likely save a lot of time/effort/heartache for not much money -- and get it fixed. I do a lot of work on my own instruments, but I don't do slide work. :roll:
Gary Merrill
Wessex EEb tuba
Mack Brass Compensating Euph
Amati Oval Euph
1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba
Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone
DE LB K/K9/110 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R
1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Bach 12c)
Basie1955
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Re: 7th position scratchiness

Post by Basie1955 »

Huge thanks. ( love ruminating ). I will take
it in to a pro. Likely a bit out of alignment.
I need to be nice to my slide and be careful not to twist
or tweak it.
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ghmerrill
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Re: 7th position scratchiness

Post by ghmerrill »

We all do ... but they're so privileged and entitled, and "Oh, I'm so sensitive and fragile." :lol:
Gary Merrill
Wessex EEb tuba
Mack Brass Compensating Euph
Amati Oval Euph
1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba
Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone
DE LB K/K9/110 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R
1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Bach 12c)
OneTon
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Re: 7th position scratchiness

Post by OneTon »

AtomicClock wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 5:46 pm Have any astronauts taken a trombone to the ISS?
Alan Shepard took one to the moon. Before he did the slide test, Shepard used it to hit a golf ball. The slide test was deemed to be inclusive. The golf shot looked pretty good.
Richard Smith
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ssking2b
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Re: 7th position scratchiness

Post by ssking2b »

Urbie Green once said "7th position? Who uses that?"
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Posaunus
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Re: 7th position scratchiness

Post by Posaunus »

OneTon wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 9:03 pm
AtomicClock wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 5:46 pm Have any astronauts taken a trombone to the ISS?
Alan Shepard took one to the moon. Before he did the slide test, Shepard used it to hit a golf ball. The slide test was deemed to be inclusive. The golf shot looked pretty good.
Fact check: In 1971 (Apollo 14), Alan Shepard hit a few golf balls (with a one-handed swing) using a custom-fashioned "club" - a Wilson 6-iron head attached to a lunar sampling tool. No trombones were harmed in this exercise.

But I bet a lightweight slide would really feel light on the moon's surface!
baileyman
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Re: 7th position scratchiness

Post by baileyman »

My Model 9 slide had a strong resistance in that area, actually starting at sixth. No amount of cleaning helped. Couldn't find anything amiss myself. John Sandhagan looked at it and thought there might be some out of roundness from solder joint heat. He inserted an adjustable reamer in and took a few thou off the inside of the outer near the brace. I think it's better, but I don't think the result is definitive. If the stickiness started after sixth I wouldn't have been concerned or puzzled.
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