One More Step to a Slick Slide

[Mamaposaune]

This is in response to the recent threads on Yamaha slide lube here, and the member who was having issues with his new King slide, posted under "Instruments."

And inspired by my husband who, knowing how obsessive I am with slide maintenance, recently handed me two of his slides that he has not been happy with, he was ready to take them to a tech for repair. His complaint - he cleans and lubes them before playing, they are OK for a very short time but then quickly go downhill. They feel dry and rough along the entire length. Neither of us could find signs of mis-alignment or dents.

(Note - he will let his horns sit for up to several weeks "wet" in the case, cleaning and lubing them right before playing.)

Anyhow, I cleaned the first one (a Conn 79H) several weeks ago, and the 2nd one (Selmer Bolero) this morning. He has played the 79H since, and the slide is MUCH better - going from a 7 to a 9 1/2-10 even after several hours of use. I think the Bolero is going to be the same.

What I did: First I polished the inside of the outers with a cleaner I found at Dollar Tree (pictured below) I think it worked as well as Wrights, and was even a little easier to rinse out. I'm not necessarily recommending it over Wrights, just saying I think it is a good alternative. Got LOTS of black tarnish/corrosion out. I rinsed thoroughly with water, and finished up with isopropyl alcohol on a cleaning rod.

* Next, on a hunch, I swabbed the outer with the cleaning rod, but this time used Trombotine on the rag. Lots of it - on 4-5 rags, as it turned out. I probably used a teaspoon of trombotine in total, rubbing it into the tip until it felt saturated, but no gobs that would get pushed into the crook. Then I polished with dry rags - another 4-5 - until no more black gunk came out.The rags pictured below are from the start of the dry polish. 

I also rubbed trombotine into the inner with a rag, more than I would normally use, and then wiped it all off. 

So, the slide was dry, but had Trombotine rubbed into the pores of the metal. Hubby used the Yamaha snot on the 79H, which held up well for his rehearsals and performance. I think the Trombotine would have been the same, I use it on my slides with no issues.

The process almost felt more like seasoning a pan, LOL, filling the pores of the metal with lube while cleaning the remainder of the polish and tarnish off the raw brass outers

[hornbuilder]

Will have to try that trick! Just check to make sure the paste has no ammonia in it.

[tbonesullivan]

Will have to try that trick! Just check to make sure the paste has no ammonia in it.

I found it online, and no ammonia. It's a mild abrasive utilizing Kaolin / China Clay. It's used in some fancy toothpastes, and is supposed to be more gentle.

[hornbuilder]

[elmsandr]

Of note, similar to seasoning a pan; the practice i learned for swabbing the slide was to make sure you swab until the tubes are very warm, almost hot to the touch. Two reasons given, first to make sure you do it long enough to get gunk out. Second to get those pores to open up for the next step of working in the lube.

Not sure if it actually helps, but my slides are always better when I do it that way.
Andy

[Nelskath]

@Mamaposaune - I am a new forum member and do not yet have permission to see the files you have attached. Could you please include a link to the Dollar Tree product or somehow describe it.?

I am familiar with Wright's cream. I assume you are talking about either the silver or copper cream.

Yamaha has a slide cream as well as a slide lube. Do you think that would work as well as Trombotine to seal the pores of the outer slide? It may be more compatible with the Yamaha slide lube since it is made by the same company.

Finally, does isopropyl alcohol do the best job of finish cleaning of the outer slide? I am not aware of what chemicals work well to dissolve polishing residue.

I have a 1950's Olds Ambassador that I would like to try your technique on. Thanks for your help.

[baileyman]

I distribute the Yamasnot with a 20ga mild nylon shotgun brush after a single stroke tight microfiber swabbing (that also makes heat). Seems faultless for days.

[Mamaposaune]

It is just called All-Purpose Cleaning Paste, and comes in a round 7-oz pink and purple container at Dollar Tree.
As an added plus, it contains no ammonia like the Wrights does.
IMO, the trombotine paste works best as a cleaner to follow up with, spread on the tip of a cleaning rag on a rod after thoroughly rinsing the cleaning paste out with water, then following up with isopropyl alcohol. The alcohol does a good job of getting out the remaining residue before polishing again with the Trombotine.
When I wrote the original post, I thought the final step would be trombotine on the cleaning rod, but am now finding that the slide still needs to be played then cleaned again several more times.

@Mamaposaune - I am a new forum member and do not yet have permission to see the files you have attached. Could you please include a link to the Dollar Tree product or somehow describe it.?

I am familiar with Wright's cream. I assume you are talking about either the silver or copper cream.

Yamaha has a slide cream as well as a slide lube. Do you think that would work as well as Trombotine to seal the pores of the outer slide? It may be more compatible with the Yamaha slide lube since it is made by the same company.

Finally, does isopropyl alcohol do the best job of finish cleaning of the outer slide? I am not aware of what chemicals work well to dissolve polishing residue.

I have a 1950's Olds Ambassador that I would like to try your technique on. Thanks for your help.

[Nelskath]

Thank you for describing the Dollar Tree cleaner. I found it today at my local store. What is the problem with ammonia? The Wrights Copper Cleaner contains ammonia hydroxide(?) but seems to be a recommended cleaner in your first post. Sorry if these questions were answered elsewhere. I just want to do the best job I can on my old trombone.

[BGuttman]

First, ammonium hydroxide is a solution of the gas ammonia in water. Cleaners cannot contain ammonia per se; it won't mix with a solid or paste. It must be dissolved in something.

Why is ammonia bad? Ammonia creates a soluble complex with copper and can remove a lot of metal from the instrument; especially if it is unlacquered. You may not see this happening in moments -- it takes some time. One treatment with an ammoniated paste shouldn't be fatal, but repeated treatments can create problems.

[Nelskath]

@Mamaposaune - The All-Purpose Cleaning Paste is quite dry and difficult to get on a cleaning rod. Did you mix it with some type of solvent to make it easier to use?

@BGuttman - Thanks for the explanation of the danger of ammonia. I was unaware and have used many cleaning products on my horns over the years containing ammonia. With some research, I am amazed how many websites that should know better recommend cleaning the slides with ammonia containing products.

[Blabberbucket]

Ammonia can also cause brass to become brittle and crack.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Season_cracking

Note that Nickel Silver is primarily copper and that handslide tubes are cold drawn, which is noted to be a partial cause of the ammonia-copper interaction.

I'd imagine that it would take long-term interaction for major issues to arise. Cleaning the brass with a compound containing ammonia and then immediately removing it may be fine, but why risk it?

[Mamaposaune]

Mamaposaune - The All-Purpose Cleaning Paste is quite dry and difficult to get on a cleaning rod. Did you mix it with some type of solvent to make it easier to use?

Yes, water. I rinse the slide with water first, then wet the cleaning cloth and work the paste into the cloth by hand.