22" music reader?

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robcat2075
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22" music reader?

Post by robcat2075 »

I haven't bought this, I haven't tried this, but... if one were looking for a touch-navigable e-reader for music that was bigger than a typical tablet or laptop screen, this might be it.

A 22" touchscreen (10-point touch) monitor for $115

on ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/364174101343 (stand not included)

info from maker: https://www.planar.com/products/desktop ... fications/

Of course, this isn't e-ink, it's a regular LCD display, but large-format e-ink devices are still very expensive and still not very large.

It still needs a computer to drive it but in a home practice studio situation that might not be a problem. The data sheet says it's "Windows® 7, 8, 10, 11 - HID Compliant - no drivers needed for basic touchscreen operation"
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Re: 22" music reader?

Post by Dan »

For the last couple of years I have been using a 24" PC monitor, driven by a xiaomi MI Box streamer with a mobile sheets app. The monitor is attached to a stand, and there's a small shelf for a mini keyboard.
24" is equivalent to two A4 sheets.
Excelent solution on a budget.
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Re: 22" music reader?

Post by robcat2075 »

I bought one of those 22" touch screens.

At 9.5 lbs... it's a bit much to plop on a folding wire stand, I'll need to build a dedicated support, but it is promising otherwise.

However, just as I was lamenting the lack of truly substantial e-ink displays... someone has made a 25" e-ink monitor.

MSRP $1700

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Re: 22" music reader?

Post by elmsandr »

I’ve been tempted to run one of these cheap portable laptop monitors off my phone and ForScore… anybody try that? I’d love to go fully digital, but I don’t want to spend hundreds on the largest iPad that is still too small.

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Re: 22" music reader?

Post by afugate »

I don't think IOS supports secondary touch devices. If so, I would miss things like editing during rehearsal and button links for DS al Coda during performances.

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Re: 22" music reader?

Post by robcat2075 »

This looks light-weight and reasonably large. Too bad it's android.

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Re: 22" music reader?

Post by mark10450 »

A big issue for me was ForScore not being available on anything other than iOS devices. I ended up getting the iPad Pro 12.9 inch, even though it's only 85% the size of standard paper, I'm able to crop and zoom if necessary to get it to size better. Before that, I was using the 11-inch iPad Pro.

A big issue you'll run into with the external monitor that was already stated, at least for me would be losing the ability to write notes, etc on the music unless you use your phone while doing that. iPhones will allow the use of an external portable monitor but only as an output device, with no input (no touch sensors sending data back to the iPhone). Page turning could still be done via a Bluetooth page turner connected to your iPhone.
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Re: 22" music reader?

Post by timothy42b »

robcat2075 wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2023 6:18 pm This looks light-weight and reasonably large. Too bad it's android.

For Android there is MobileSheets, easily as good as Forscore.

I use the S7 FE, equivalent in size to iPad Pro but cheaper. And for me the file conventions are more intuitive, of course YMMV.
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Re: 22" music reader?

Post by ghmerrill »

I would think of going in the Chromebook direction.
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Re: 22" music reader?

Post by timothy42b »

ghmerrill wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2023 12:41 pm I would think of going in the Chromebook direction.
I did that. I didn't like the keyboard being underneath on the stand, the position of the USB ports, the inability to quickly darken and reawaken the screen, and a couple other quirks like losing the keyboard randomly just when you want to search for the next piece, or thinking your page turner is a remote keyboard.

All of those have work arounds and for home use Chromebook would be useful, I just didn't like carrying it. I have found the tablet a better solution for what I do.
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Re: 22" music reader?

Post by ghmerrill »

What exactly are you referring to when you say "the tablet"?

Edit: Oops. Stupid question. I get it.

What's the OS on it exactly?
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Re: 22" music reader?

Post by elmsandr »

ghmerrill wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 6:40 am What exactly are you referring to when you say "the tablet"?

Edit: Oops. Stupid question. I get it. Definitely if you''re a pro (or serious student) who can drop that kind of money on something like this, that does appear to be the best current technology.

What's the OS on it exactly?
These use Android OS…

The cost is not out of line on the tablet market, but I want more to look at, myself, that’s why I’m looking at one of those cheaper secondary displays. I’m thinking phone could be on my lap and screen on the stand… but I don’t really know if that would work that way.

And the paper has little glare and requires no battery… so I have some inertia to overcome there.

Cheers,
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Re: 22" music reader?

Post by ghmerrill »

elmsandr wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 7:14 am These use Android OS…
Ummm ... so kinda like a big phone?

elmsandr wrote: I’m thinking phone could be on my lap and screen on the stand… but I don’t really know if that would work that way.
Yeah, this was how I was thinking of using the Chromebook -- not with any of its onboard controls. But I have no idea exactly what it would support (or how well at this point).

I'd be a little concerned (for my own use) with vanilla Android underneath it (as opposed to ChromeOS or some other "real" OS). What's the file system like? How do you navigate and use it? What peripherals are supported and how do you attach/install them? What's the UI/UX like overall? Part of this, of course, depends on whether you want the device as a "special purpose" music display/interaction device or a more general purpose (computer/tablet/etc.) device that supports the music needs.
elmsandr wrote: And the paper has little glare and requires no battery… so I have some inertia to overcome there.
Yes -- quite a bit, actually. It's one thing if your stand light tanks in a practice or performance (I just had that happen with one of the USB chargeable ones :roll: ). But it's quite another if you totally lose access to your sheet music.
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Re: 22" music reader?

Post by harrisonreed »

robcat2075 wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2023 6:18 pm This looks light-weight and reasonably large. Too bad it's android.
What's wrong with Android?
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Re: 22" music reader?

Post by ghmerrill »

harrisonreed wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 8:41 am What's wrong with Android?
This is just bait, right? The correct answer is: "It's not Apple." That's what I get from my wife all the time. :lol: (She actually has reasons for saying this, having been in the UI/UX game for some years. But we continue to disagree about Android.)
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Re: 22" music reader?

Post by harrisonreed »

It's not bait.

I'm not convinced about User interface or experience being better, just because something is made by Apple. The one time I used a Mac in the early 2000s, which was an iMac G3 big screen with colored plastic all over it, I went to right click a file to get options of actions that I wanted to do with the file. Maybe to quick print or see file details. Nothing happened. I looked at the owner of the Mac like, "I'm so sorry that you have this kid toy that you're supposed to do actual work on".

From what I can tell, at least for phones and tablets, the capabilities for Android and iOS from an end user perspective is almost the same, and if an app is iOS exclusive, there will be an equal or better app for Android, and vice versa. Computers, I have no idea. I know that the apple hardware these days is very powerful, for graphics and video work. The G3 was so unintuitive that I have not used an Apple product since.

Not even hating on Apple, I'm genuinely curious as to why it would be preferable here.
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Re: 22" music reader?

Post by ghmerrill »

harrisonreed wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 8:56 am The one time I used a Mac in the early 2000s, ...
Possibly not very reliable to draw conclusions from a single experience almost a quarter century in the past and attempting to use something for the first time. Just a thought. I remember sitting in a Bell Labs auditorium in the early '80s at an HP presentation of their new "personal computer" and saying to my self "What the !! is this "mouse" thing they're using??" :lol:
harrisonreed wrote: From what I can tell, at least for phones and tablets, the capabilities for Android and iOS from an end user perspective is almost the same ...
Well, just to play devil's advocate ... This depends on what you mean by "capabilities" and "almost the same" -- and what you regard as important. And it's indisputable that some of the improvements in the usability of Android have come from a study of Apple's UX/UI (which was ground-breakingly innovative). It's also true (from a software design/history/support perspective) that Android is at a different evolutionary stage than the Apple systems and has a different "underlying philosophy" concerning development, testing, marketing, and support. Nonetheless, I'm fine with Android and am in fact quite encouraged by things like ChromeOS (which I also regard as immature at this point). And I have my issues with Apple (have had since the 80s) -- though none of them are about quality, ease of use, or support.

However, people can be stubborn and somewhat narrow-sighted from either perspective. And there are emotional issues of "loyalty" and such. For my part, I try to be objective about functionality, ease of use, and cost/benefit -- and don't see it as a moral struggle of good vs. evil. :| So I'm kind of with you, but I don't feel I need to bash Apple to like Android -- especially since bashing Apple in terms of the objective performance and usability is really pretty hard.
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Re: 22" music reader?

Post by robcat2075 »

harrisonreed wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 8:41 am
robcat2075 wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2023 6:18 pm This looks light-weight and reasonably large. Too bad it's android.
What's wrong with Android?


I like having one OS for everything across my devices so all my programs can run on all of them and behave consistently and most of my programs don't exist in Android anyway.

Android seems to be mostly for content consumers, not content creators. None of the content creation programs I use exist in Android. Even open source, multi-platform programs like Audacity don't run on Android.

Are there Android programs that perform similar functions? Sometimes... maybe... but they are not the same program and are limited in what they do. I don't want to have to learn a new program and its workflow just because I'm on a different screen and then find out I can't do everything I need to do anyway.

If I got that Android tablet, it would be a purchase with limited uses. If I got a windows tablet, there would be many things I could make use of it for besides looking at music or watching videos.

Android does what it was made to do... be a phone interface... but that's not much in the universe of things one wants to do with a computer.
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Re: 22" music reader?

Post by AtomicClock »

Can we please not re-litigate the holy war?
robcat2075 wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2023 1:35 pm I bought one of those 22" touch screens.

At 9.5 lbs... it's a bit much to plop on a folding wire stand, I'll need to build a dedicated support, but it is promising otherwise.
Have you considered the commercially available tripod mounts? Makes it look like a traditional music stand.
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Re: 22" music reader?

Post by robcat2075 »

AtomicClock wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 10:15 am
robcat2075 wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2023 1:35 pm I bought one of those 22" touch screens.

At 9.5 lbs... it's a bit much to plop on a folding wire stand, I'll need to build a dedicated support, but it is promising otherwise.
Have you considered the commercially available tripod mounts? Makes it look like a traditional music stand.
Like this? Yes, that does look like a plausible option. It would certainly be more portable than the edifice I was going to build. Thanks!

tripodmount.png
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Re: 22" music reader?

Post by AtomicClock »

That's what I was thinking. But if you're like me, you accidentally knock your music stand over maybe once a year or so. Could get expensive. Sandbags?
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Re: 22" music reader?

Post by ghmerrill »

Ditch the tripod base and attach the vertical stand tube to a pipe flange bolted to the floor. It's the only option.

But seriously, this does point to the physics problem of these devices making any arrangement precariously top-heavy.
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Re: 22" music reader?

Post by AtomicClock »

ghmerrill wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 10:46 am precariously top-heavy
Not if you hang it from the ceiling.
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Re: 22" music reader?

Post by harrisonreed »

robcat2075 wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 9:58 am
harrisonreed wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 8:41 am

What's wrong with Android?


I like having one OS for everything across my devices so all my programs can run on all of them and behave consistently and most of my programs don't exist in Android anyway.

Android seems to be mostly for content consumers, not content creators. None of the content creation programs I use exist in Android. Even open source, multi-platform programs like Audacity don't run on Android.
A music reader would be purely a "consumer" function, though. I completely get doing content creation on a MacBook. I really do, even though I don't use apple. I know you were an animator and into production, and I know how important it would be to have everyone using one OS on a very powerful system.

But who is doing content creation on a music tablet? A 22" one, no less. Surely the cheapest readable and reliable solution would do. You don't need the fastest tablet in the land that is also gigantic, just to display a PDF.

I wouldn't mention Audacity in any serious discussion of content creation, if you're going that route with it. I've teased you about that program before, but seriously, it's terrible. Use Reaper. Reaper is iOS friendly I believe. Or Logic.

It sounds like you are going to be doing a lot more than just reading music off this baby if you go with it. I honestly don't know here, can the best iOS tablets run stuff like Logic and Davinci Resolve? That would be seriously impressive!
Last edited by harrisonreed on Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 22" music reader?

Post by BGuttman »

AtomicClock wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:37 am
ghmerrill wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 10:46 am precariously top-heavy
Not if you hang it from the ceiling.
Tough to do outdoors ... :wink:
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Re: 22" music reader?

Post by ghmerrill »

AtomicClock wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 11:37 am Not if you hang it from the ceiling.
Innovative -- but I think I'd need one that could be raised and lowered like a movie screen -- or just use a screen and projection technology. :roll:
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Re: 22" music reader?

Post by ghmerrill »

BGuttman wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:17 pm Tough to do outdoors ... :wink:
Not sure this stuff would work outdoors at all -- hard enough to see your phone screen under various lighting conditions. :(
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Re: 22" music reader?

Post by AtomicClock »

ghmerrill wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:31 pm Not sure this stuff would work outdoors at all -- hard enough to see your phone screen under various lighting conditions. :(
Which is why we're waiting on e-Ink.
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Re: 22" music reader?

Post by robcat2075 »

AtomicClock wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 12:36 pm Which is why we're waiting on e-Ink.
Yup. All of these things so far are transitional, partial solutions.

Someday we'll have a decent page-sized lightweight tablet with an e-ink display, maybe even in color, with speedy page turns and stylus capability for mark-ups.

All of these things exist but not all in the same device yet. :weep:
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Re: 22" music reader?

Post by AtomicClock »

robcat2075 wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2023 1:35 pm I bought one of those 22" touch screens.

At 9.5 lbs...
The Amazon listing says 10.9 ounces!
https://www.amazon.com/Planar-PCT2265-T ... B01N5CIS8S
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