What to practice over 60.
-
- Posts: 136
- Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2023 9:02 am
- Location: Riverside CA USA
What to practice over 60.
I am 62 years old and I play in a local community concert band that plays mostly high school level pieces, maybe a little bit more advanced, but they like to keep it pretty simple. I can sight read most of the pieces we play and have done so in concerts. My question is, are scales, etudes, and method books really necessary at this juncture in my life? I find practice tedious and usually end up playing songs from song and fake books. If I only play songs and work on difficult passages for the band, should I do long tones for warmups or what?
Thom H
King 4B bone, Denis Wick 5AL Mouthpiece.
Yamaha YSL-3530R bone, Bach 5G small shank mouthpiece.
King 4B bone, Denis Wick 5AL Mouthpiece.
Yamaha YSL-3530R bone, Bach 5G small shank mouthpiece.
- BGuttman
- Posts: 6295
- Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:19 am
- Location: Cow Hampshire
Re: What to practice over 60.
I like to emphasize making music. Practicing melodic stuff like Rochut (Bordogni) exercises or some of the more melodic exercises in other method books should do nicely. You can get Mantia's "The Trombone Virtuoso" on IMSLP for free. Lots of exercises that won't bore you to tears in it.
Nothing wrong with playing from fake books either, provided you try to make it melodic and not mechanical.
Nothing wrong with playing from fake books either, provided you try to make it melodic and not mechanical.
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
- Doug Elliott
- Posts: 3380
- Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:12 pm
- Location: Maryand
Re: What to practice over 60.
Play whatever you want... just do it correctly.
"I know a thing or two because I've seen a thing or two."
-
- Posts: 3888
- Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:54 pm
- Location: California
Re: What to practice over 60.
Not too late in life to get a trombone teacher and follow their guidance.
-
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Fri May 11, 2018 11:52 am
Re: What to practice over 60.
I am 63 dittos on the teacher.
Scales etudes everything.
Need to keep muscles and brain in shape
Scales etudes everything.
Need to keep muscles and brain in shape
-
- Posts: 2485
- Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:10 pm
Re: What to practice over 60.
Maybe find a group that challenges you a bit more?
-
- Posts: 488
- Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:46 am
-
- Posts: 129
- Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:33 am
Re: What to practice over 60.
What Doug and Chris said. Just do it correctly.
Fridge
Fridge
-
- Posts: 1593
- Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:51 am
- Location: central Virginia
Re: What to practice over 60.
Spend at least a little time on the stuff you can't do.
As soon as you're "good enough" at anything you stagnate.
As soon as you're "good enough" at anything you stagnate.
-
- Posts: 3158
- Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:31 am
Re: What to practice over 60.
I'm not quite there yet, but I'm knocking on the door for sure. I like to also play stuff out of the Real books. Just as a hint, there are a lot of them. If you learn to read treble clef, there are a lot more.
But if I just do that, some things get rusty, so there are things I still need to practice with exercises.
- lip slurs
- intervals
- intonation
- time (metronome)
This helps range and flexibility in ways just playing real music doesn't. You always have to work on time and intonation.
But if I just do that, some things get rusty, so there are things I still need to practice with exercises.
- lip slurs
- intervals
- intonation
- time (metronome)
This helps range and flexibility in ways just playing real music doesn't. You always have to work on time and intonation.
- Doug Elliott
- Posts: 3380
- Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:12 pm
- Location: Maryand
Re: What to practice over 60.
You can work on all of those things while playing tunes. Or "real music," it doesn't have to be exercises.
"I know a thing or two because I've seen a thing or two."
-
- Posts: 3158
- Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:31 am
Re: What to practice over 60.
Yeah, that's true, but nothing focuses on lip slurs like Arbans or Marsteller. Athletes still do focused exercises. You need to be able to put it in context with real music, but I find the need to focus on a couple of issues.Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Mon Jul 03, 2023 4:29 pm You can work on all of those things while playing tunes. Or "real music," it doesn't have to be exercises.
-
- Posts: 251
- Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:11 am
- Location: Somerset, UK
Re: What to practice over 60.
I whole-heartedly agree with the above suggestions but would also recommend a target piece to break the monotony of studies and exercises and something to get your teeth into, more challenging than tunes from a fake book.
Here in the UK we have a system of graded practical exams for most instruments from A-Z ('Arp to Zylophone!) These range from Grade 1 to 8, most pieces have piano accompaniment if you want to perform them in public. They range from simple tunes up to movements from Guillmant, Larsson, David and Grondahl with jazz and classical styles. Beyond Grade 8 there are 4 different levels of Diplomas.
Here is a link to the Trombone and Bass Trombone lists (Pages 49-68)
https://gb.abrsm.org/media/67034/15-per ... 230303.pdf
As for the age thing, don't worry about it, you can't do anything about it (Cryonics are very expensive!) I have been learning the trombone for the last 73 years (I will be 80 in December) and resurrected the Gordon Jacob Concerto as a "lock-down project" 50 years after I last performed it for my Finals Exam. The brain still works and the lips also but the breath and arm movement took some time to get back to the required facility.
Go for it!!!
Cheers
Stewbones43
Here in the UK we have a system of graded practical exams for most instruments from A-Z ('Arp to Zylophone!) These range from Grade 1 to 8, most pieces have piano accompaniment if you want to perform them in public. They range from simple tunes up to movements from Guillmant, Larsson, David and Grondahl with jazz and classical styles. Beyond Grade 8 there are 4 different levels of Diplomas.
Here is a link to the Trombone and Bass Trombone lists (Pages 49-68)
https://gb.abrsm.org/media/67034/15-per ... 230303.pdf
As for the age thing, don't worry about it, you can't do anything about it (Cryonics are very expensive!) I have been learning the trombone for the last 73 years (I will be 80 in December) and resurrected the Gordon Jacob Concerto as a "lock-down project" 50 years after I last performed it for my Finals Exam. The brain still works and the lips also but the breath and arm movement took some time to get back to the required facility.
Go for it!!!
Cheers
Stewbones43
Conn 36H(Pitched in D/A)
Reynolds Medalist
B&H Sessionair
Besson 10-10
Conn 74H
Yamaha YSL-641 with Yamaha Custom Slide
Conn 88H Gen II with Conn SL4747 Slide
Besson Academy 409
Rath/Holton/Benge Bb/F/G or Gb/Eb or D Independent Bass
Reynolds Medalist
B&H Sessionair
Besson 10-10
Conn 74H
Yamaha YSL-641 with Yamaha Custom Slide
Conn 88H Gen II with Conn SL4747 Slide
Besson Academy 409
Rath/Holton/Benge Bb/F/G or Gb/Eb or D Independent Bass
-
- Posts: 1537
- Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:43 am
- Location: Sweden
Re: What to practice over 60.
Play anything you want but make sure you listen to yourself as you do it.
/Tom
/Tom
-
- Posts: 136
- Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2023 9:02 am
- Location: Riverside CA USA
Re: What to practice over 60.
Thank you to everyone, I will take all recommendations and find what works for me. The original question was aimed as much toward what to practice as toward warmups. I currently warmup on lip slurs from 1st position down to 7th and the scale I am currently memorizing, working my way around the circle of fourths/fifths. Then I work on song passages for the band and fun songs. I do not practice mouthpiece buzzing as I believe the horn gives much better feedback. Any suggestions for additions to the warmups?
Thom H
King 4B bone, Denis Wick 5AL Mouthpiece.
Yamaha YSL-3530R bone, Bach 5G small shank mouthpiece.
King 4B bone, Denis Wick 5AL Mouthpiece.
Yamaha YSL-3530R bone, Bach 5G small shank mouthpiece.
-
- Posts: 1537
- Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:43 am
- Location: Sweden
-
- Posts: 136
- Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2023 9:02 am
- Location: Riverside CA USA
Re: What to practice over 60.
Hello Folks, just wanted to thank everyone for their help on this subject, I really appreciate this site very much. Just wanted to give an update. I bought a Yamaha YSL-3530R and I am using a Bach 7C mouthpiece. I guess my ADHD and OCD had me searching for a “magic bullet” type of way to getting back my chops and learning to improvise. When I was younger I was inclined to do the stuff that came easy and avoid the tough things. I realize now that there is no “magic bullet” in life or on the trombone. As Einstein pointed out, the definition of insanity is, “Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” I got Larry Clark’s book “I used to play trombone” and I am practice 30 minutes 5 days a week, I am sticking to it and when I feel ready, I am switching to David Vinings book for student trombone. For Jazz I am practing 15-20 minutes 5 days a week with Blues backtracking on YouTube. Then I spend about 15 minutes 5 days a week on solo books. I thank you all very much.Trhtrbn wrote: ↑Sat Jul 01, 2023 4:47 pm I am 62 years old and I play in a local community concert band that plays mostly high school level pieces, maybe a little bit more advanced, but they like to keep it pretty simple. I can sight read most of the pieces we play and have done so in concerts. My question is, are scales, etudes, and method books really necessary at this juncture in my life? I find practice tedious and usually end up playing songs from song and fake books. If I only play songs and work on difficult passages for the band, should I do long tones for warmups or what?
Thom H
King 4B bone, Denis Wick 5AL Mouthpiece.
Yamaha YSL-3530R bone, Bach 5G small shank mouthpiece.
King 4B bone, Denis Wick 5AL Mouthpiece.
Yamaha YSL-3530R bone, Bach 5G small shank mouthpiece.
-
- Posts: 294
- Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:39 am
Re: What to practice over 60.
Just mix up what your practice routines are. Similar, but different variations, etc.
Most trombone players I know who did the same thing every day (same routine since college) for 30 years or so have had to quit or retire from great jobs early due to focal dystonia and similar problems.
There are some very lucky ones who fall 'through the cracks.'
But, training your embouchure muscles to play the same thing 'but faster' every day after day after day is a sure route to focal dystonia. The way that guitar players get dystonia in their hands and fingers from practicing the same thing day after day going for more speed.
The brain shuts down the connection to the muscles, in a nutshell. The brain and muscles are searching for the utmost in efficiency. Well, the utmost in efficiency is to simply just 'not do anything'. 'Not doing anything' is the utmost in efficiency..... which is focal dystonia in a nutshell.
Mix up your routines for your body's sake....at any age.
Most trombone players I know who did the same thing every day (same routine since college) for 30 years or so have had to quit or retire from great jobs early due to focal dystonia and similar problems.
There are some very lucky ones who fall 'through the cracks.'
But, training your embouchure muscles to play the same thing 'but faster' every day after day after day is a sure route to focal dystonia. The way that guitar players get dystonia in their hands and fingers from practicing the same thing day after day going for more speed.
The brain shuts down the connection to the muscles, in a nutshell. The brain and muscles are searching for the utmost in efficiency. Well, the utmost in efficiency is to simply just 'not do anything'. 'Not doing anything' is the utmost in efficiency..... which is focal dystonia in a nutshell.
Mix up your routines for your body's sake....at any age.
-
- Posts: 136
- Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2023 9:02 am
- Location: Riverside CA USA
Re: What to practice over 60.
Good advice, thx.Cmillar wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 6:50 pm Just mix up what your practice routines are. Similar, but different variations, etc.
Most trombone players I know who did the same thing every day (same routine since college) for 30 years or so have had to quit or retire from great jobs early due to focal dystonia and similar problems.
There are some very lucky ones who fall 'through the cracks.'
But, training your embouchure muscles to play the same thing 'but faster' every day after day after day is a sure route to focal dystonia. The way that guitar players get dystonia in their hands and fingers from practicing the same thing day after day going for more speed.
The brain shuts down the connection to the muscles, in a nutshell. The brain and muscles are searching for the utmost in efficiency. Well, the utmost in efficiency is to simply just 'not do anything'. 'Not doing anything' is the utmost in efficiency..... which is focal dystonia in a nutshell.
Mix up your routines for your body's sake....at any age.
Thom H
King 4B bone, Denis Wick 5AL Mouthpiece.
Yamaha YSL-3530R bone, Bach 5G small shank mouthpiece.
King 4B bone, Denis Wick 5AL Mouthpiece.
Yamaha YSL-3530R bone, Bach 5G small shank mouthpiece.
-
- Posts: 1537
- Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:43 am
- Location: Sweden
Re: What to practice over 60.
It's good to vary your routines to cover every aspect of what you need to do on the horn. Long tones, various, natural slurs, articulations and nuances, scales, arpeggios, trills, high and low playing and don't forget to play music. If having a routine that is "the same" gives dystonia or not doesn't seem very plausible to me. I don't think anyone knows why some get focal dystonia, it seems so be one of a mystery. I have a friend who got it. Finally he realized that is his problem. It took him years to understand that. The ideal practice is to have a routine that covers all aspects of playing and that also is efficient so you have time to do other things you want to do. That's what my routine is about. Sometimes I play the whole day and some days I only play the routine. I use a routine because I know the routine is enough to keep in shape. A BAD routine is just some random playing without a plan.Cmillar wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 6:50 pm Just mix up what your practice routines are. Similar, but different variations, etc.
Most trombone players I know who did the same thing every day (same routine since college) for 30 years or so have had to quit or retire from great jobs early due to focal dystonia and similar problems.
There are some very lucky ones who fall 'through the cracks.'
But, training your embouchure muscles to play the same thing 'but faster' every day after day after day is a sure route to focal dystonia. The way that guitar players get
dystonia in hands and fingers from practicing the same thing day after day going for more speed.
The brain shuts down the connection to the muscles, in a nutshell. The brain and muscles are searching for the utmost in efficiency. Well, the utmost in efficiency is to simply just 'not do anything'. 'Not doing anything' is the utmost in efficiency..... which is focal dystonia in a nutshell.
Mix up your routines for your body's sake....at any age.
/Tom
Last edited by imsevimse on Thu Jul 20, 2023 7:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
- tbdana
- Posts: 664
- Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2023 5:47 pm
Re: What to practice over 60.
All this advice, all good, but my first thought was "What do you want to do?" I mean, you're 62. Do whatever the f**k you want, you know? But what are your goals? Is your community concert band going to be it for you? Or do you have other/higher goals?
If you're happy playing in your concert band and you're doing fine, then just play what you like to play. Find a good warmup routine that you like, and then play songs or whatever floats your boat. Your goal is to enjoy playing, right? So, do that.
OTOH, if you want to get better, then you're going to have to focus on things like long tones, flexibility, range, musicality, etc., and that's going to require some structure.
It all depends on what your goals are at 62. BTW, 62 isn't old! I play in a trombone choir group that plays its ass off, and most of the guys are in their 70s or older. One of the group leaders, Jeff Reynolds (former L.A. Phil bass trombonist) is in his mid-80s, and still plays his ass off. 62 is not old. You have plenty of time, if you want to get good.
Think of it this way: in 10 years you're gonna be 72. You can be 72 and a lousy trombone player, or 72 and a great trombone player. Which do you want to do?
If you're happy playing in your concert band and you're doing fine, then just play what you like to play. Find a good warmup routine that you like, and then play songs or whatever floats your boat. Your goal is to enjoy playing, right? So, do that.
OTOH, if you want to get better, then you're going to have to focus on things like long tones, flexibility, range, musicality, etc., and that's going to require some structure.
It all depends on what your goals are at 62. BTW, 62 isn't old! I play in a trombone choir group that plays its ass off, and most of the guys are in their 70s or older. One of the group leaders, Jeff Reynolds (former L.A. Phil bass trombonist) is in his mid-80s, and still plays his ass off. 62 is not old. You have plenty of time, if you want to get good.
Think of it this way: in 10 years you're gonna be 72. You can be 72 and a lousy trombone player, or 72 and a great trombone player. Which do you want to do?
-
- Posts: 136
- Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2023 9:02 am
- Location: Riverside CA USA
Re: What to practice over 60.
I took lessons from Jeff Reynolds back in the 80’s to 90’s when I was playing tuba and bass bone, he is an awesome trombonist. I don’t know if he still has it, but he used to have a cool train set in his basement that was a model of the Cajon Pass. He really loved his basset hounds, too. Idk know if you noticed in my earlier posts, but my biggest obstacle is learning to play with dentures and not having played an instrument for over 10 years. There is not much info out there on how to overcome the changes to the embouchure when you get dentures. I guess I want to be the best trombonist I can be, and I am starting lessons tomorrow with an instructor who plays professionally, in Jazz, Classical, Pop, etc. I will get some guidance from him. I am just very inquisitive and will ask questions when they pop into my head. I have decided to stick with the YSL-3530R and a Bach 7C instead of the 45A. So no more equipment questions for awhile, lol.tbdana wrote: ↑Thu Jul 20, 2023 7:40 am All this advice, all good, but my first thought was "What do you want to do?" I mean, you're 62. Do whatever the f**k you want, you know? But what are your goals? Is your community concert band going to be it for you? Or do you have other/higher goals?
If you're happy playing in your concert band and you're doing fine, then just play what you like to play. Find a good warmup routine that you like, and then play songs or whatever floats your boat. Your goal is to enjoy playing, right? So, do that.
OTOH, if you want to get better, then you're going to have to focus on things like long tones, flexibility, range, musicality, etc., and that's going to require some structure.
It all depends on what your goals are at 62. BTW, 62 isn't old! I play in a trombone choir group that plays its ass off, and most of the guys are in their 70s or older. One of the group leaders, Jeff Reynolds (former L.A. Phil bass trombonist) is in his mid-80s, and still plays his ass off. 62 is not old. You have plenty of time, if you want to get good.
Think of it this way: in 10 years you're gonna be 72. You can be 72 and a lousy trombone player, or 72 and a great trombone player. Which do you want to do?
Thom H
King 4B bone, Denis Wick 5AL Mouthpiece.
Yamaha YSL-3530R bone, Bach 5G small shank mouthpiece.
King 4B bone, Denis Wick 5AL Mouthpiece.
Yamaha YSL-3530R bone, Bach 5G small shank mouthpiece.
-
- Posts: 2485
- Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:10 pm
Re: What to practice over 60.
68 here. I’ve got a 2-month break and I’ve been thinking about what to practice for the next few months.
I’m thinking of 4 15-min sessions as follows:
1 Warm-up
2 Technical (eg Arban, Schlossberg)
3 Improvisation (IReal Pro)
4 What I got coming up this fall (Rhenish, Lohengrin), misc
I’m thinking of 4 15-min sessions as follows:
1 Warm-up
2 Technical (eg Arban, Schlossberg)
3 Improvisation (IReal Pro)
4 What I got coming up this fall (Rhenish, Lohengrin), misc
-
- Posts: 394
- Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:17 pm
- Location: Massachusetts
Re: What to practice over 60.
This string looks pretty complete but I will add my two cents. I am also over sixty.
Find or create some exercises to keep the more extreme skills needed for the instrument under your fingers. High range, trills/ flexibility, large interval leaps and multiple tonguing can all fade over time if you don't give them regular attention. You don't have to drill on all of them every day, but don't forget about them.
Find or create some exercises to keep the more extreme skills needed for the instrument under your fingers. High range, trills/ flexibility, large interval leaps and multiple tonguing can all fade over time if you don't give them regular attention. You don't have to drill on all of them every day, but don't forget about them.
Last edited by Macbone1 on Fri Jul 28, 2023 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
King Jiggs 2BL
Olds Opera
Besson Sovereign Bb/F bass
Holton bass trumpet
B&H Imperial shepherd's crook cornet
Olds Opera
Besson Sovereign Bb/F bass
Holton bass trumpet
B&H Imperial shepherd's crook cornet
-
- Posts: 249
- Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2022 1:51 pm
- Location: Connecticut
Re: What to practice over 60.
Scales and arpeggios are always good to know, major and minor, diminished, augmented. And since you play jazz know what half diminished is as well. The majority of music is based off of them, and knowing them can help you identify patterns that will make difficult passages easier to play. And you need to know these if you want to improvise. (I believe that in other posts on this forum you mentioned that you found a big band to join.)
-
- Posts: 136
- Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2023 9:02 am
- Location: Riverside CA USA
Re: What to practice over 60.
Thanks. I found a swing ensemble, their name for big band. They are covered for now, but I can practice with them, be a backup, until a spot opens.
Thom H
King 4B bone, Denis Wick 5AL Mouthpiece.
Yamaha YSL-3530R bone, Bach 5G small shank mouthpiece.
King 4B bone, Denis Wick 5AL Mouthpiece.
Yamaha YSL-3530R bone, Bach 5G small shank mouthpiece.