fast licks, position anxiety...

[blap73]

Well, my community band has exceeded my skill level.
First a bit of a bio: played in high school (total of 7 years playing).
Didn't pick it back up until a bit more than a year ago. Started in this community band a year ago (so a lapse of over 40 years). Felt like I was doing OK, holding my own for much of last year. Now, either I'm going backwards or the music difficulty has been ramped up. I definitely think the music is harder now than a year ago.

I do think I've improved in several ways compared to a year ago.

Where I'm really struggling is fast runs.
Examples are Bridge to Manhattan @92 (92 half note/min), eighth note runs, including some 6 to 1st position throws. I'm playing 2nd on a straight tenor. And Vesuvius @217 (168 bpm) also has some full slide throws between notes. Also in the lineup is Danzon #2 with a load of lets say unusual keys for a high school band player.

I'm getting killed. A substantial issue is we have been playing a lot of odd key signatures and I think I've got position anxiety. Even when I'm in Eb when I hit a fast lick my brain starts to overload with ... wait what key, and hence what position is that???

We did our first serious run-thru of these last night and have just 5 more group practices (about 2 hour session) before performing it. I've concluded (with much sadness) that while I might get one of these drilled to an acceptable level in that time I'm just not going to get these (and 3 others) up to a reasonable level in that amount of time. Hence I'm going to step away.

[muschem]

I can relate to this. I picked up a horn in 2021 after a 20+ year break. I felt like I lost a fair amount of muscle memory and technical ability in addition to initially struggling with range and endurance.

One thing that helped me rebuild some comfort in unusual keys was to transcribe and transpose technical exercises into those keys, and then structure my practice sessions around these. Arban studies come to mind, but I never found those to be particularly interesting. Cimera studies are interesting, and digestible. There are a lot of other sources you could use for this - I have a few public domain options available in my GitHub repository: https://github.com/muschem/trombone/tre ... scriptions. On the technical side, Slama has a few exercises in each key, and Bleger and Muller studies are good. You could take any of those etudes, which are already in MuseScore format in my repo, and quickly transpose them into challenging keys for additional practice. If you use a digital device like an iPad or Android tablet for music, one handy feature of apps like forScore is the ability to tag studies by key. If you use that when you import studies, you could construct focus sets for problematic keys.

I’ve had many instances over the last year or so playing with a couple community groups, where I felt unequal to the task. In my experience, these groups are very welcoming, understanding of limitations, and happy for whatever you can contribute. I’m not intimately familiar with the pieces you mentioned, but often, you can play a modified version of the written part that fits your current abilities, contributes positively to the group, and leaves you feeling less overwhelmed. If fast runs with long slide throws in odd keys isn’t working, maybe focusing on key notes within the phrase would be more achievable. It is something I’d definitely talk with the section leader about. Unless your group is over-run with a lot of trombone, my guess is that they’d prefer to have your slightly modified contribution in the group compared with you completely stepping away. Either way, keep working on it. It will all come with time and consistent practice.

[norbie2018]

I find many community groups take people at the level where they're at and appreciate any contribution they can make. If you cannot play a lick and have limited time, a modified version is usually perfectly acceptable. They are appreciative of what you can contribute. muschem gave some great ways of practicing foreign keys and you will become familiar with them through time and practice. I hope you keep going with the group!

[MStarke]

Just some ideas - knowing that you probably do not have endless time to practice and that there are limits to how quickly these things can be learnt.

- The obvious: Incorporate scales and patterns in all keys in your practice sessions. However this will be more of a long-term help
- Try to isolate things when you are practicing. Play it glissando, without any tongeuing. Play it just with breath attacks. Play just the rhythm on the first note in the correct articulation. Play the first note, until its perfect, the first two until they are perfect, the first three etc. Same backwards starting with the last note of a difficult lick. Vary the rhythm for practice purpose, e g triplet or dotted eigth instead of straight eighth
- Practice it an octave up or down for some more variation, especially if the original octave is challenging
- Sing it with correct intervals
- Sing it and move an imaginary slide
- Same with mouthpiece buzzing
- Make sure you always take a good breath. People tend to lose other aspects of their playing when they panic and don't breath properly
- Consider alternate positions. Straight tenor can be challenging on quick runs in the mid to low register, but it can often be simplified by e g playing middle f in 6th and e in 7th position
- Make sure your slide positions are correct and precise. Imprecise slide position leads to bad response, leads to messing up your overall playing

[MStarke]

And I forgot some more:
- Don't panic - your life doesn't depend on it
- Focus on getting the first and last note(s) right and in time. You can even practice accepting some slight chaos in between, but getting beginning and end right.

[blap73]

Good news / bad news ...
We have a veritable plethora of Trombones. Had 8 last night.

I appreciate the thoughts and empathy.

[BGuttman]

I wonder how many other trombones are having the same anxiety you are (my guess is at least several others).

Good suggestions so far. I second (fifth?) the bit about simplifying the tough lick. Find some notes you can play within them in tune and on time and go with that. I played in a Community Orchestra who had a string bass player who had the same problem you describe. He strategized his part so that he found which notes he could play in tune and on time and went with those. We never had a problem with that.

[AndrewMeronek]

Another idea for general troubleshooting: try simply memorizing the problem licks. Get the reading of sharps/flats/rhythms out of the picture. Memorizing specifically getting the muscle memory and the ear more involved can actually make some kinds of licks a lot easier to handle. Plus, after memorizing something, as long as you can still relate your learning back to what the written lick looks like, you have a much better chance of tackling similar licks successfully next time.

This also makes it much, much easier to pay attention to a conductor - if they're worth watching in the first place, that is.

[timothy42b]

Those sound like runs in marches or similar pieces?

If so don't sweat them. You're trying to play too loud. Loud and fast are not friends.

They are probably doubled with euphonium, tuba and maybe saxes, so if you skip a few notes it's no big deal, but if you're late on ANY note you'll stick out. Better never than late. Aim at the notes that are emphasized, like on the beat.

(Trying to think of a few more cliches to throw iin here.)

You should still work on them. See if you can figure out your main obstacle and work that first. Knowing the positions is basic of course but after that, is it your tongue or your slide that's getting in the way? Or maybe the switch from low to high? Isolate that and work it. Use alternates whenever they help.

8 trombones? I would hate playing in that section. Well, I play with 12, but that's a trombone choir.

[Mr412]

^^^ Good points. If you can hear the valved brass behind you playing the exact same notes, then the part is covered and you can fake it or stay tacit. Better that than make the section sound muddy. Best of luck!

[blap73]

Bridge to Manhattan trouble starts about 2:10 mark
Vesuvius about 5:45 mark
Danzon #2
American Overture for Band

[baBposaune]

Contact me by e-mail for a couple of lessons. We are in the same band.

[blap73]

Well, a thank you to baBposaune ... we got together did some work. And I bought some new readers. I think my 5 year old prescription computer glasses just aren't quite strong enough anymore.

Gave the group another go tonight. Things went better. [and the theme tonight was to work the pieces chunk by chunk vs. bull thru them near full tilt.] I'm still not persuaded that I'll play in the concert... but for now I'm trying to hang in there.

[timothy42b]

Gave the group another go tonight. Things went better. [and the theme tonight was to work the pieces chunk by chunk vs. bull thru them near full tilt.] I'm still not persuaded that I'll play in the concert... but for now I'm trying to hang in there.

On the fast parts, can you play every 4th note? or 3rd, if it's a triple rhythm? That might even improve everyone's performance.

[blap73]

what we worked up was skipping the 3rd note (C - 6th) in the runs for Vesuvius.
So instead of A, Bb, C, D, F (2, 1, 6, 4, 1) it becomes 2, 1, x, 4, 1
Plenty of trigger equipped players in the section to fill in that C.

[timothy42b]

what we worked up was skipping the 3rd note (C - 6th) in the runs for Vesuvius.
So instead of A, Bb, C, D, F (2, 1, 6, 4, 1) it becomes 2, 1, x, 4, 1
Plenty of trigger equipped players in the section to fill in that C.

Especially with a large section, I think it can sound much cleaner if everybody doesn't attempt every note. Almost on time can muddy it up.

[JeffBone44]

I have been simplifying technically challenging passages for a long time when I had difficulty playing them. Nobody ever complained, and it probably sounded better because the notes that I played sounded full and in tune. I still do it sometimes. I find that lots of those lines are doubled in other instruments anyway.

[Doug Elliott]

That's usually the case. When I write charts I try to make each individual part easy to play while covering the whole line across everybody playing it. Don't be afraid to rewrite stupid unplayable lines.

[Trombonjon]

Increasingly difficult music can encourage players to practice. If you do, you’ll become a better trombonist/musician for it. In my limited experience, I’ve found that scale practice helps a lot. Major scales, minor scales, augmented, diminished, blues etc. Also the arpeggios generated by those scales. Be sure to cover all twelve tonalities each week. Ah…do not neglect to use your alternate positions if they make your playing easier, and do not forget the chromatic scales. There’s nothing quite like being prepared for relieving performance anxiety issues. Hope this helps.

[harrisonreed]

Why no F attachment on your small bore?

It's worth it even just for valving falls with the trumpets

[afugate]

what we worked up was skipping the 3rd note (C - 6th) in the runs for Vesuvius.
So instead of A, Bb, C, D, F (2, 1, 6, 4, 1) it becomes 2, 1, x, 4, 1
Plenty of trigger equipped players in the section to fill in that C.

If you do have the chance to play this run with a trigger horn, I encourage you to try playing it as 2, V3, 6, 4, 1. Just straight out and then back in.

--Andy in OKC

[ramonii]

how can i learn fast

[BGuttman]

how can i learn fast

There is no shortcut or "cheat" that will let you learn this stuff fast. The way is boring. You have to play scales and exercises. First slowly but ACCURATELY. Then faster maintaining the accuracy. Scales should be so automatic that you don't have to think to play them.

When you can look at a piece of music and know how to play it without trying to figure out what positions to use you will suddenly be able to play fast.

[muschem]

how can i learn fast

To borrow a motto/philosophy from a different context:
"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast."

Bruce is spot on. There are no shortcuts. Slow, smooth fundamentals practice will get you there, but it won't happen overnight.

[ramonii]

Thank you so much