New guy

[thecoast]

Hi, folks. From the little bit I've seen here, it's about the same "exciting" environment as the trumpet forum. That may or may not be a compliment or insult. Apologies either way.

So I bought a flugabone a couple weeks ago. In very nice condition, I might add (except for one thing I'll ask about later). I didn't really want to learn slide positions since I figured it would be tough enough to learn to blow the thing half decently. So for those who might also play trumpet, what's different about blowing the flugabone compared to blowing a trumpet? I have about a two octave range on the flugabone, but it is unstable. I'm practicing some long tones, but the trombone sucks the air out of me. LOL. I'm using a 6 1/2 AL mouthpiece. I have a 12C, but the tone I get in the smaller mouthpiece isn't as pleasant as the larger one. I bought the flugabone to learn how to play a lower part for me, myself, and I on trumpet/cornet/flugelhorn, to get a quartet sound.

If you can make suggestions or instructional tips that even a trumpet player can understand, those would be preferable. Thanks.

[BGuttman]

Hi and welcome!

We have a number of folks here who play valved instruments as well as slides (including me).

Note that a Flugaone (or Baritone or Trombone) takes a lot more air than a trumpet. But you may be putting too much air through the thing. That may be why the 12C mouthpiece sounds shrill. As an example, I play the Claude Gordon exercises (down an octave from trumpet). When Gordon says you should be able to get through an exercise 4 times on one breath, I can only do 2 on a trombone or baritone.

You may want to get a trombone player to coach you through a couple of sessions to work on proper breath control. If you can afford it, there are several teachers here who will give you lessons over Zoom or Skype. You probably won't need more than 1 or 2 to get your feet wet.

Have fun.

I must convess, I have a cornet that I can't play too much -- way too small.

[thecoast]

Hi, Bruce. Thanks for the welcome. What I found online was that opening the mouth to take big breaths is a very important habit to develop early on. I've been working on that and it's getting a little easier. But I acknowledge that, like flugelhorn and the C trumpet, one has to take time to treat the instruments as NOT Bb trumpets. I have had an easier time connecting to my flugelhorn than the C trumpet. It's a Chinese instrument with amazing valves but it's more difficult to keep in tune. The flugel is also Chinese, but it's easy to keep in tune. The Olds flugabone sounds nicely in tune. I'm really enjoying playing it, even though I feel a little dizzy after a few long tones. LOL. I guess I can ask what a Zoom lesson might cost. That's probably what I need. Thanks for the suggestion.

While I have your ear, two things: First, the valves are a little on the noisy side. Is that because of age? (I actually need help figuring out when the Olds flugabone was made. I haven't been successful finding that out online). Can it be remedied by new pads or felts? Any suggestions? Second, are there flugabone stands? I have a flugelhorn stand that actually seems to work, but I was wondering if there's anything specific. I didn't find anything online. I'm thinking to simply get another flugelhorn stand for the flugabone.

Thanks again for your time.

[BGuttman]

First about the valves. It's possible that the pads and felts are old and compressed. The valves are similar in size to an "American Baritone". I believe there are some sellers of pad and felt kits on Ebay, although I've never bothered on my horns. Treating the valves is probably similar to what you are familiar with on trumpet, but be warned: many are bottom sprung and if you aren't careful the valve spring will take off for parts unknown if you just unscrew all the caps.

As to age, you will need to find the serial number. I don't know where it is on a Flugabone -- maybe on the 2nd valve casing like other brands. If Rouse's Olds Fanatic site can't help post it here. Our resident Olds expert, JLowe, may be able to help. Note that Olds went out of business around 1970. Shortly afterward a Dutch company called Shenkelaars took over the brand but they have been out of the business for quite a while as well.

An Olds would probably say "Fullerton" on the bell while a Shenkelaars won't. I don't believe Olds made any of these things when they were in Los Angeles.

[Doug Elliott]

...opening the mouth to take big breaths is a very important habit to develop early on.

No, no, and NO. Opening your mouth to inhale does nothing but destroy your embouchure set. Try to play it just like you play trumpet (except I don't know how you play trumpet...) but use LESS air. If you put the same air pressure behind it that you do on trumpet, you'll be putting way too much air through it. Back off and get a feel for what it needs.

I do Zoom and Skype lessons if you're interested. I can help your trumpet playing too.

[Ted]

I agree with Doug!

After 15 years on trumpet, I made the switch to trombone (all on amateur level). The easiest mistake you can make is trying to blow the trombone completely full as you would on trumpet. It may help in sound in the beginning, but it ends in very inefficient playing.

[thecoast]

First about the valves. It's possible that the pads and felts are old and compressed. The valves are similar in size to an "American Baritone". I believe there are some sellers of pad and felt kits on Ebay, although I've never bothered on my horns. Treating the valves is probably similar to what you are familiar with on trumpet, but be warned: many are bottom sprung and if you aren't careful the valve spring will take off for parts unknown if you just unscrew all the caps.

As to age, you will need to find the serial number. I don't know where it is on a Flugabone -- maybe on the 2nd valve casing like other brands. If Rouse's Olds Fanatic site can't help post it here. Our resident Olds expert, JLowe, may be able to help. Note that Olds went out of business around 1970. Shortly afterward a Dutch company called Shenkelaars took over the brand but they have been out of the business for quite a while as well.

An Olds would probably say "Fullerton" on the bell while a Shenkelaars won't. I don't believe Olds made any of these things when they were in Los Angeles.

So according to Rouse's site, 92xxxx would fall somewhere between Nov '74 and Apr '76. The fluga does say Fullerton on the bell. Seems like Shenkelaars only had the brand for a very few years, and the site doesn't even mention Shenkelaars. And they show the last year of manufacture as 1977. I think my semi-retired Getzen Caravelle student trumpet is from the mid-seventies.

And my flugel is bottom sprung so I figured the fluga would be, too. I am careful. I didn't think to look for American Baritone for the pads. They certainly didn't have any for a flugabone or valve trombone that I could find.

Thanks for the info. That helped narrow down the age. I think. LOL. I mean, there's conflicting info here, but it's close.

[thecoast]

I agree with Doug!

After 15 years on trumpet, I made the switch to trombone (all on amateur level). The easiest mistake you can make is trying to blow the trombone completely full as you would on trumpet. It may help in sound in the beginning, but it ends in very inefficient playing.

Cool. Thanks for the trumpeter's perspective. OK. So easy on the blowing. I felt that blowing less air made it seem like I wasn't playing loud enough, but I guess I shouldn't confuse the frequency (as in the easier-to-notice higher trumpet register) with decibels. Blowing less made it easier to keep the notes stable. So I'll work on that. Thanks.

Now: Why did you switch, Ted? Curious to know if you want to share.

[Ted]

Why I switched from trumpet to trombone? When I moved to live together with my girlfriend, I joined her wind orchestra. They had like 8 trumpets and 1 trombone, and also another group I was in was looking for a trombone player. So... I borrowed a trombone, had a few lessons, tried it, and liked it!