What will trombones look like in 100 years.

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JCBone
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What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by JCBone »

Modern trombones are pretty radically different then they were 100 years ago, so how do you think they will look in 100 years from now. Do you think we will go full circle and go back to playing 0.460" peashooters?
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by BGuttman »

Really depends on what kind of gigs will be out there.

I'm pretty sure symphonic players will stay large bore because of the large halls they need to fill. We may find that 2 valve tenors will be more common (F and G). Not for range but for versatility.

If popular music adopts the horn line (trumpet, sax, trombone) the small to medium bore instrument will probably predominate here since it has better penetrating power.

Look for electronics -- mostly for effects. I can envision a Yamaha Silent Brass mute tied into an effects box and then into an amplifier. Expect that for the trumpet as well. Maybe also some kind of intonation controller to adjust for bad tuning.

Modularity may advance further with a whole panoply of parts interchangeable to customize a horn.

That's about all I can see in my crystal ball. I hope somebody around 2100 will dissect this (and probably laugh at my lack of sophistication).
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by LeTromboniste »

I'm not sure I agree with the premise. In terms of their most impactful aspects, the designs of the major types of trombone in use today are not that far from being 100 years old already. The main trend of the last 70 years or so has been standardisation much more than evolution. The largest bore instruments in the American style are the latest iteration and were already in place by the mid 50s, with some turning 70 next year... The small bore designs we still use today are older than that, mostly from the 20s and 30s. In the general design, there's much less difference between a modern 2B and an equivalent instrument of 1921 than there was between that 1921 instrument and one from 1821, for instance.

I'm sure we're in for many more improved/different designs for specific components (valves, mouthpieces, bracing, etc) but unless there is a massive paradigm shift, I don't see things changing much in terms of the big picture the way they had changed in past centuries.
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by harrisonreed »

I disagree with the premise as well. The design of the trombone has not radically changed since the introduction of the quart valve, in the mid to late 1800s. You could argue the design hasn't really changed much since the days of the sackbut. Everything has been standardized, and most of the standard specs of today could have been found in trombones even in 1920.

For example, the "modern" large bore 88H comes from the 8H, which was available in 1913. This apparently included the now-standard Morse taper leadpipe. The 8H artist special (AKA 88H) was available for quite a while before the actual 88H design came out as a non custom job in 1954 along with the unfortunate "Remington" leadpipe taper.

The Conn 6H, still used in jazz today, was available in 1911.

If you think about how many "boutique" designs are basically just refinements of those two models alone, you can see how very little the trombone changes at all over time.

Where we have seen the most change, without a doubt, is in mouthpiece design. Look at a sackbut mouthpiece, vs a german piece from the 1800s, vs arthur pryor's mouthpiece, vs the shift of bass trombone mouthpieces to be their own specialized animal, vs the 5G and 4G, vs Alessi's mouthpiece, vs Christian Lindberg's mouthpiece.

The instruments are remarkably the the same. You want to sound different and innovate? Come up with a really wild mouthpiece design.

In the future, I think we'll see trombones made to tighter tolerances and with higher quality than we've ever seen before. I think the bracing designs might continue to evolve. I hope they begin making frictionless slide tubes.
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by Hobart »

I think composers will realize the gross imprecision of the slide, and the valve trombone will rise as the true low brass instrument. Our children's children will never hear of slides.

Just kidding, to be honest I think things are gonna stay about the same.

At least for more casual players, older horns suffice to this day, and there's not much development that can be made unless demands change. Maybe there will be a new funky valve, maybe the Yamaha 354 will become the 355 with some minute design changes like the 353 before it, but the trombone will be around for a long time in its current form. The only big change I see is a shift towards Chinese manufacturing, and increasing cost cuts.

The Yamaha 354 is quite similar to the first Yamaha trombones, except with better quality control. The same with the 23 alto saxophone. Even American manufacturers are dedicated to consistency; although the 42 is arguably crippled by its undersized rotary valve, the design is at least 60 years old because nobody determined it was broke enough.

Most of Conn Selmer's lineup is middle aged at newest: Holton's 181 only received a facelift since 1974, so it can use Bach 50 parts. The King 2B and the 3B had been around since the 50's, and are still popular from when JJ Johnson used them. Ironically, Conn is the only Conn-Selmer division to get in on the "modernization" fun, with their trombone lines being updated in the 80's and the 6H being brought out to pasture some years ago.

Brass instrument companies will simply not update their horns until they absolutely have to; "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!" If the 3B is THE go-to commercial horn. If it remains as well regarded as it is today, they aren't going to change it. The 3B is not only well regarded and extremely popular, it is a cash cow, because they probably put almost no new research into it. Manufacturers are simply too stubborn to throw this reputation away, and will probably produce classics like the 3B and the 354 in some form until the end times.
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by imsevimse »

I think the change will be in material and manufacturing.

The ability to build good trombones from new materials cheaper is what I think will evolve most. Professional horns for classical playing will still be in metal as we see today and will be more expensive. Commercial horns will be the ones that change, probably light weight horns that are cheap and still sound and look cool with a mic.

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Last edited by imsevimse on Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by quiethorn »

I think we'll see automation of the entire trombone building process with no humans involved eventually, but that's only if demand for trombones keeps up enough for someone to develop it.

3D printing is still in it's infancy, and we'll probably have 3D printed horns of exceptional quality some day... out of what material, who knows.

Horn customization could continue at more granular levels. Completely modular horns all the way from the screw-in interchangeable inner slide tubes to the 3D printable carbon fiber F attachment of any shape. Design an F attachment wrap that spells your initials. Horrible back pressure but looks cool, especially with the lacquer-embedded LED lights.

Maybe someone will figure out how to re-zincify red rot, and we can all keep our horns forever.

But for other fun stuff...

F attachment valves that operate not by physical connection to the trigger but rather by near zero-latency wireless communication, or maybe zero-latency wired connection with wires built into the brass itself. This would allow completely customizable trigger placement, and the mechanics of triggering the valve could change completely... touch sensitive pads, for example.

Same goes for spit valves... wirelessly controlled. Empty your spit valve without getting a dirty look from the conductor.

Experimentation with alternate materials will continue, I think. Carbon fiber could take off, not so much in the classical world, but elsewhere maybe. Maybe silver-plated carbon fiber or something? Sounds like a trombone, slightly lighter weight, hard to dent.

Some sort of laser tracking system between the slide barrel and handslide with visual feedback to help you know where your slide is with exact precision to help with intonation. You could already hack something like this together, but someone will probably eventually make and sell it. Trombonechat in 100 years will be split between those who think this is cheating and those who think it's progress. Some well-known classical soloist will start using it and create a controversy.

The visual feedback could be via OLED or future material embedded in the lacquer on the bell where you can see it. This could also be where you display your music. Great for pep and marching band, and maybe even in the classical world. No more music stands for the trombone section, but now we can't get them to look at the conductor 'cause they're staring at their bells!

Maybe a mouthpiece with automatically variable cup depth, so as you go lower, the cup deepens, and as you go higher, it shallow-ens(?). Not sure how it would know what your next note will be to get deeper or shallower. Maybe it'd only be useful for composed music, since it's likely there will be a microchip embedded in your horn with enough AI to follow along with the music and adjust for you based on what's coming up.

Some sort of electronic feedback system built into the horn itself. So you play a note, a pickup picks it up, processes it with the effect of your choice, and a speaker plays it back through the horn itself or a transducer vibrates the horn to create weird acoustic-electric feedback stuff. Similar concept to the Moog Guitar. I've messed with this myself already, and it kinda works, but I think the next step would involve drilling a hole in my horn, so... :idk:

Some sort of magic completely transparent, one-way valve in the top inner slide tube so when you go full horns up in marching band, you don't get a mouthful of spit :biggrin:
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by Burgerbob »

quiethorn wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:12 am I think we'll see automation of the entire trombone building process with no humans involved eventually, but that's only if demand for trombones keeps up enough for someone to develop it.

For this one, I don't think the economy of scale will ever support full automation. Just not worth it for the quantity of trombones produced, even by the Chinese plants or by someone like Yamaha.
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by Blenky »

Interesting thread.

I don't pretend to know a great deal about the history of the Trombone. I played on a 1950's Blessing Artist for 30 years which was a Conn 88 knock off I believe? I still go back to this occasionally because I really love the robustness of it, it makes my 'real' 88 look like the cheap copy, although it doesn't have a great high register. Great horn for things like Whit Sunday marches :-)

With this in mind I agree with some comments above. Cost of manufacture is always key and probably the reason why some horn manufacturers moved their manufacturing around last century, at the cost of quality. These days, the Chinese can create a low cost production line and knock out good quality products which really squeeze other Global manufacturers. I have a Chinese made Rath R900 which seems to be incredibly well built and makes a novice like me sound pretty acceptable!

Bear with me, I'm getting to the 'future' bit !!

So, if the future 'off the shelf' good quality horn production will become a cost driven, commodity thing, I see any innovation coming from niche, higher quality, bespoke facilities. One could argue that modular, hand crafted shops like Mick Rath are already doing this, but I'm talking about taking this to a new dimension.

If you take a cue from other industries such as automotive, construction, electronics etc, most of their innovation comes from the application of science, which drives innovation and often lowers cost. The use of new materials (carbon fiber!), manufacturing to smaller tolerances, using laser imaging tech and 3D printing to create components on the fly (MP's) which match the playing characteristics of an individual, using fluid dynamics to look at airflow to improve pipework and valves, harvesting player energy to evaporate spittle (:-|).

Out of this list, I think new materials and 3D printing will eventually drive the biggest changes. If you can print components offsite on the international space station, you sure as heck can print some pretty interesting valve components or MP combinations.

There are many aspects of Trombone design that could change, but I don't see them fundamentally changing the shape of the instrument, unless science shows us that a 4 inch bell flare made from carbon nanotubes actually offers the best sound and we end up with something that looks like a sackbut once more!

Personally, weight is one thing that I'd happily see addressed, materials science can definitely help here, and I am as clumsy as a two year old, so a bell made from a self healing material would keep my instrument out of the shop.

Science will be the vehicle of change, but I'd argue, not the appearance.
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by Blenky »

quiethorn wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:12 am I think we'll see automation of the entire trombone building process with no humans involved eventually, but that's only if demand for trombones keeps up enough for someone to develop it.

3D printing is still in it's infancy, and we'll probably have 3D printed horns of exceptional quality some day... out of what material, who knows.

Horn customization could continue at more granular levels. Completely modular horns all the way from the screw-in interchangeable inner slide tubes to the 3D printable carbon fiber F attachment of any shape. Design an F attachment wrap that spells your initials. Horrible back pressure but looks cool, especially with the lacquer-embedded LED lights.

Maybe someone will figure out how to re-zincify red rot, and we can all keep our horns forever.

But for other fun stuff...

F attachment valves that operate not by physical connection to the trigger but rather by near zero-latency wireless communication, or maybe zero-latency wired connection with wires built into the brass itself. This would allow completely customizable trigger placement, and the mechanics of triggering the valve could change completely... touch sensitive pads, for example.

Same goes for spit valves... wirelessly controlled. Empty your spit valve without getting a dirty look from the conductor.

Experimentation with alternate materials will continue, I think. Carbon fiber could take off, not so much in the classical world, but elsewhere maybe. Maybe silver-plated carbon fiber or something? Sounds like a trombone, slightly lighter weight, hard to dent.

Some sort of laser tracking system between the slide barrel and handslide with visual feedback to help you know where your slide is with exact precision to help with intonation. You could already hack something like this together, but someone will probably eventually make and sell it. Trombonechat in 100 years will be split between those who think this is cheating and those who think it's progress. Some well-known classical soloist will start using it and create a controversy.

The visual feedback could be via OLED or future material embedded in the lacquer on the bell where you can see it. This could also be where you display your music. Great for pep and marching band, and maybe even in the classical world. No more music stands for the trombone section, but now we can't get them to look at the conductor 'cause they're staring at their bells!

Maybe a mouthpiece with automatically variable cup depth, so as you go lower, the cup deepens, and as you go higher, it shallow-ens(?). Not sure how it would know what your next note will be to get deeper or shallower. Maybe it'd only be useful for composed music, since it's likely there will be a microchip embedded in your horn with enough AI to follow along with the music and adjust for you based on what's coming up.

Some sort of electronic feedback system built into the horn itself. So you play a note, a pickup picks it up, processes it with the effect of your choice, and a speaker plays it back through the horn itself or a transducer vibrates the horn to create weird acoustic-electric feedback stuff. Similar concept to the Moog Guitar. I've messed with this myself already, and it kinda works, but I think the next step would involve drilling a hole in my horn, so... :idk:

Some sort of magic completely transparent, one-way valve in the top inner slide tube so when you go full horns up in marching band, you don't get a mouthful of spit :biggrin:
While I was crafting my response, you made a much better job :-)

Melt the horn down at the end of a long days orchestral playing, and reprint it overnight as a jazz horn for the next gig :lol:
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by Blenky »

quiethorn wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:12 am
"Maybe it'd only be useful for composed music, since it's likely there will be a microchip embedded in your horn with enough AI to follow along with the music and adjust for you based on what's coming up."
I'm at an age when I could do with AI based music scanning tech to give me a small electric shock up not to miss that critical drop to 'ppp', a medium shock to wake me up after a few hundred bars rest in some Beethoven symphony and a larger shock a few bars ahead of a key change to 6 sharps!
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by ArbanRubank »

You'll have to go to a museum to see what they were and maybe how they were used.
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by baileyman »

Super light, automatically manufactured from some kind of plastic, no more right angle braces that do not fit hands, balance front to back and left to right, unimaginable valving options that weigh a whisper, and automatic indexing position indicators that can be switched off...
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by hyperbolica »

It is possible that acoustic instruments will look mostly like they do today. The development will be in electronic instruments. We struggle mightily for good sound, but a synthesizer in a EWI will be able to get whatever perfect sound you want. We'll be lucky if keyboards and dj setups don't take over everything.. There will be various interface arrangements to make things easier like portamento, vibrato, detuning, auto-solo. Have you seen what these DWI/EWI can do already? All they need to do now is transmit directly into your auditory implants.

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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by Leanit »

Over the next 100 years, I expect trombones to change 5% from what we know today. Maybe affordable carbon.

The business of performing arts (trombone gigs, in particular) will change 99%.

The question is a bit like asking what clutch pedals will look like in 100 years.
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by Kbiggs »

The basic design of the trombone hasn’t changed much in the last 400 years or so. But the devil’s in the details, and we all know that the finer points of trombone manufacture have changed drastically during that time. Who knows what will change? I’ll rely on Bruce’s crystal ball, as mine is permanently deficient, and too late to return on warranty!

What won’t change is the soft machine. People will still need to practice and learn the skills of playing, along with discipline, performance, perseverance despite set-backs, and how to develop and sustain a passion for music.
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by Finetales »

I want a holographic sight on the bell that gives me decibel readings at multiple distances.
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by BGuttman »

hyperbolica wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:48 am It is possible that acoustic instruments will look mostly like they do today. The development will be in electronic instruments. We struggle mightily for good sound, but a synthesizer in a EWI will be able to get whatever perfect sound you want. We'll be lucky if keyboards and dj setups don't take over everything.. There will be various interface arrangements to make things easier like portamento, vibrato, detuning, auto-solo. Have you seen what these DWI/EWI can do already? All they need to do now is transmit directly into your auditory implants.

Image
It didn't become anywhere near as popular, but there is an Electronic Brass Instrument with 3 buttons for valves and an octave roller to go from tuba to soprano cornet range. Because the tones are generated electronically, they are always in Just Temprament.

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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by tombone21 »

In the future, most trombones will be made to be as easy to interface with a computer as possible, once software like ProTools gets as intuitive as operating systems and word processors have become. Sure, the trombones used in orchestras will look largely the same. But those orchestras (at least in the US) will be few and far between after the top ones are absorbed by museums, where a Mahler symphony will be "historical performance".
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by dembones »

An inflatable trombone! You just blow into it, and...

Um. Hmm. Guess I haven't quite thought this through yet...
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by UncleJenny »

In 100 years.. No instruments at all (maybe except of historic music practice). All digital with AI composing. It’s already begun:
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by TheSheriff »

Finetales wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:47 am I want a holographic sight on the bell that gives me decibel readings at multiple distances.
..
If it works as well as the holographic sight I have on my deer rifle, you'll be happy. :good:
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by JohnL »

I expect they will look much like they did 100 years ago.

The cutting edge of trombone design for symphony work was the Conn 8H and similar larger-bore designs. Peashooters in the Conn 2H class were passé by 1921. The workhorse models for non-symphonic playing were in the range of roughly .480"-.510". Much the same as today.
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by johntarr »

Much of the above speculation about advances in design is based on the notion that there will still be a market. Just today I read a report from a survey of Swedish wind ensembles, including big bands. The findings were not encouraging. Trombone players, along with horn, euphonium and tuba holders were the hardest to recruit among the brass. So, at least in Sweden, the number of new students is declining.

To be sure, there are many reasons for this and one I think, is the awkwardness of the instrument. For little ones, just putting the thing together and holding it up requires more strength and dexterity than they often can muster. I hope that lighter trombones can become available at lower prices. We need something that weighs the same as a pbone, but of much better quality.
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by harrisonreed »

Has the scandinavian brass domination finally started to crack?

So far there are no Hakan Hardenbergers, Christian Lindbergs, or Oystein Baadsviks waiting on the sideline to hop in.
Last edited by harrisonreed on Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by JCBone »

johntarr wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:32 pm Much of the above speculation about advances in design is based on the notion that there will still be a market. Just today I read a report from a survey of Swedish wind ensembles, including big bands. The findings were not encouraging. Trombone players, along with horn, euphonium and tuba holders were the hardest to recruit among the brass. So, at least in Sweden, the number of new students is declining.

To be sure, there are many reasons for this and one I think, is the awkwardness of the instrument. For little ones, just putting the thing together and holding it up requires more strength and dexterity than they often can muster. I hope that lighter trombones can become available at lower prices. We need something that weighs the same as a pbone, but of much better quality.
I guess this is where carbon fiber comes in. We just need a way to make it cheaper.
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by Peacemate »

harrisonreed wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:17 pm Has the scandinavian brass domination finally started to crack?

So far there are no Hakan Hardenbergers, Christian Lindbergs, or Oystein Baadsviks waiting on the sideline to hop in.
No one remembers the names of the stand ins when the regulars are named Håkan Hardenberger, Christian Lindberg, or Øystein Baadsvik.

I definitely see the performance of my peers setting a high average skill, but a lower peak than those before us. There is only space for so many tuba soloists in this world, for better or for worse.
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by harrisonreed »

There must've been something in the water over there in the late 70s and 80s.

I think Lindberg credited some aspect of primary school there where music education was part of your day and the school would get you the instrument you wanted to play.

If that education concept is gone, that tells us where trombones and acoustic music in general is headed in 100 years.

There will be historically informed rock concerts.
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by JCBone »

harrisonreed wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:54 pm There must've been something in the water over there in the late 70s and 80s.

I think Lindberg credited some aspect of primary school there where music education was part of your day and the school would get you the instrument you wanted to play.

If that education concept is gone, that tells us where trombones and acoustic music in general is headed in 100 years.

There will be historically informed rock concerts.
Is it a similar concept to el sistema?
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by Peacemate »

harrisonreed wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:54 pm There must've been something in the water over there in the late 70s and 80s.

I think Lindberg credited some aspect of primary school there where music education was part of your day and the school would get you the instrument you wanted to play.

If that education concept is gone, that tells us where trombones and acoustic music in general is headed in 100 years.

There will be historically informed rock concerts.
I got a paper sent home in 2nd grade with pictures of instruments and a place to sign up. For just about $70 a term/year (half that now!!!) you got 20 minutes of one on one every week and an orchestra to play with. We could pick anything from tuba to flute, guitar, drums, etc. Not to mention the fact that renting an instrument from the school isn't prohibitively expensive. Of course, prices go up once you get into high school and costs land on you with full force, but it really isn't a too big risk. Free adult education makes it possible to basically change careers when you want to.

Christian Lindberg is what I would call an exception though. At some point it goes from education to just being top tier luck.
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by robcat2075 »

For the trombone to change, the widely-performed standard repertoire would have to be prompting a change.

However, our repertoire is not changing much. Not the solo repertoire, not the ensemble repertoire. Different pieces occasionally rise to prominence but they don't make new demands where the problem stopping you from playing it is the trombone.
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by Blenky »

Peacemate wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:09 pm
harrisonreed wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:54 pm There must've been something in the water over there in the late 70s and 80s.

I think Lindberg credited some aspect of primary school there where music education was part of your day and the school would get you the instrument you wanted to play.

If that education concept is gone, that tells us where trombones and acoustic music in general is headed in 100 years.

There will be historically informed rock concerts.
I got a paper sent home in 2nd grade with pictures of instruments and a place to sign up. For just about $70 a term/year (half that now!!!) you got 20 minutes of one on one every week and an orchestra to play with. We could pick anything from tuba to flute, guitar, drums, etc. Not to mention the fact that renting an instrument from the school isn't prohibitively expensive. Of course, prices go up once you get into high school and costs land on you with full force, but it really isn't a too big risk. Free adult education makes it possible to basically change careers when you want to.

Christian Lindberg is what I would call an exception though. At some point it goes from education to just being top tier luck.
I'm lucky to be part of a community brass band setup in the UK with some incredibly dedicated folks who have converted their love and passion for music into the creation of 4 (soon to be 5) bands which range from absolute beginners to a newly promoted Championship Section brass band.

Where these people exist, music seems to be thriving, even against consecutive UK government efforts to make music and the arts irrelevant! The worry for me is that most of the youngsters coming up through the ranks have musical parents, very few have been recruited as 'raw' talent at school age. We need musicians from all walks of life and backgrounds to ensure that future music makers are diverse, creative and make music a compelling art form to pursue.

Within the ranks of these bands are several young trombone players (the girls outnumber the boys, which is great!) who are progressing very quickly. It helps that our musical director is also a professional trombone player.

Even without schools pushing a music agenda, I can say that the music scene overall in my area of the UK is a lot more diverse and accessible than it was 40+ years ago when I started playing. It is all but impossible to find a place in a decent orchestra, wind band, brass band or brass/wind ensemble.

I'm actually optimistic that a year of lockdown for Covid19 will make folks hungry to get out and support music in all its forms more aggressively, but it's an industry hard hit by the current situation and it remains to be seen what will be left by the time we open up again.

100 years is a long time and I think there will be many cycles of music decline and resurgence, but overall I don't personally see the trombone becoming obsolete in this time. Maybe in 250 years when we all need to flee the decimated carcass of the Earth and travel to Mars, the 'excess baggage' charges will prohibit us from taking our instruments off planet :-)
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JohnL
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by JohnL »

robcat2075 wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:23 pm For the trombone to change, the widely-performed standard repertoire would have to be prompting a change.
Some innovations are driven by repertoire or other "external" forces (i.e., hall acoustics, sound reinforcement, recording technology, etc.) . Others come from someone looking at a trombone and thinking "if I do this to it, it'll be easier to play". Consider that most inner slide tubes being made in 1921 had soldered-on stockings and were nickel plated. A more modern example: adding first one and then two valves was driven by repertoire, but the development of improved valve designs was not.
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by robcat2075 »

JohnL wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:13 am Others come from someone looking at a trombone and thinking "if I do this to it, it'll be easier to play". Consider that most inner slide tubes being made in 1921 had soldered-on stockings and were nickel plated. A more modern example: adding first one and then two valves was driven by repertoire, but the development of improved valve designs was not.
I suppose it's possible someone will invent a solid state "valve". A box with no moving parts but with force fields inside that can instantly shift the airflow from one path to another.

Or maybe its like the little micro doors on LCD panels, there could be a mesh across ports in the valve that can open and close itself to redirect the airflow.

Has anyone done anything with lighter materials for valves? Carbon fiber rotors and levers to reduce the inertia of them? Perhaps something could be 3D printed to be of absolutely minimal mass.

And how about an anti-gravity field to hold the horn up? That would prevent a lot of wrist trouble.
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by Kbiggs »

harrisonreed wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:54 pm
There will be historically informed rock concerts.
:good:
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by Vegastokc »

Answer is a no brainer.
They will all be 2b's like this:
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by JCBone »

Well this will probably happen much sooner but I expect chinese instruments to become much more common in the pro world.
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by CharlieB »

JCBone wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 6:08 pm Modern trombones are pretty radically different then they were 100 years ago, so how do you think they will look in 100 years from now. Do you think we will go full circle and go back to playing 0.460" peashooters?


100 years from now? That's like asking who is going to win the World Series in 2121.
In my lifetime (I watched Tommy Dorsey perform live), I've seen the role of the trombone change from a small bore instrument reinforcing the melody of the trumpets, to a large bore instrument more closely favoring the low brass.
It looks like that trend will continue. No more pea shooters. Music tastes have changed.

Long term, the trombone in its present form will always have a place as long as there is an appreciation for acoustical music created before the advent of electronically produced music. But..... The popular music of today, which is where the money is, is increasingly moving toward electronic sound production as the technology gets better and better. The demand for acoustical musicians (and their instruments) is declining in the face of technology. Over the next 100 years, I would expect to see improvements in trombone manufacturing technology to more economically service a shrinking demand for new instruments, perhaps accompanied by some minor design changes; but it will be a little like making a better buggy whip.
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by Savio »

As told above, I think science will affect the production more and more. I mean computer science. There was obvious more human touch to making a trombone before and I think it will be a lost area. That can be both good and bad, but sad some human knowledge from good old makers and workers is more and more lost. Thats sad.

There will be more options I think. We see that through the last 100 years the orchestra players goes from one trombone to do it all, to have several instruments depending on the music. The renaissance through the most new composers. Just think Mozart through Debussy and Vaughan Williams. Jazz and commercial is more new but might have the same trends.

We dont know the future but obvious there will be more choices, more options. And I think more consistent. What I hope is it still have a slide....we have been sliding through hundreds of years so let it be hundreds more :good:

Anyway, lets hope the human behind the trombone is the main factor...and music is the goal.

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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by Tremozl »

I think the realm of contrabass trombones could look quite different. I'm not going to try to predict exactly how they'll look or work but I think with lighter materials and changes in design, Eb, CC, and BBb contras could become quite refined. Changes and improvements here might spill over to the higher horns too, but would that really be necessary? Not as much, I'd expect.
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Re: What will trombones look like in 100 years.

Post by Savio »

Savio wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:03 pm As told above, I think science will affect the production more and more. I mean computer science. There was obvious more human touch to making a trombone before and I think it will be a lost area. That can be both good and bad, but sad some human knowledge from good old makers and workers is more and more lost. Thats sad.

There will be more options I think. We see that through the last 100 years the orchestra players goes from one trombone to do it all, to have several instruments depending on the music. The renaissance through the most new composers. Just think Mozart through Debussy and Vaughan Williams. Jazz and commercial is more new but might have the same trends.

We dont know the future but obvious there will be more choices, more options. And I think more consistent. What I hope is it still have a slide....we have been sliding through hundreds of years so let it be hundreds more :good:

Anyway, lets hope the human behind the trombone is the main factor...and music is the goal.

Leif
All that said, what do we want it to be?? :idk:
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