Lawler Trombone Demo

[thepianoman04]

Well, I just got back from my visit from Roy Lawler’s a few hours ago and I must say WOW! Quite impressed.

He didn’t have the exact setup I was looking for to demo but we came pretty darn close to what I want and was able to pretty much narrow it down to what we think will be the perfect setup for me & what I would end up ordering.

He actually already has an order from Dillon Music for a model 2R all red brass setup that sounds right up my alley. He said he’d give me a call when it’s ready and we can compare it with the setup I settled on today to see which I like better.

So the specs of the horn I played today are below:

Model 2 - standard weight yellow brass stem
R5 (.025) 8” red brass flare (85% copper/15% zync)
.500 bore ultra lightweight nickel outer tubes w/brass end bow
#5 leadpipe

The specs of the horn I most likely will settle on once in stock:

Model 2 - standard weight red brass stem
R5 (.025) 8” red brass flare (85% copper/15% zync)
.500/.508 “step bore” or dual bore ultra lightweight nickel outer tubes w/brass end bow
Unknown leadpipe - will need to try all leadpipes in between the #5 & #10 with the dual bore slide to lock in the perfect setup for me.

So, even though I wasn’t able to play the setup best for me yet, I still could tell the Lawler I played today was a big step in the right direction toward finding my perfect horn.

The Lawler slotted so well both with intonation and core to the sound compared to my Edwards and required less effort to play vs making the Edwards work for me.

I now know what others have mentioned on the forums about his horns having a unique “classic” sound from like the 40s & 50s.

He even showed me his 1947 Martin Committee horn in excellent shape that he has modeled his horns after and really has something special here with his horns.

Took video of me playing the same lick on my Edwards and the Lawler and even the wife said she prefers the sound of the Lawler and it’s not even the final setup I’m looking for in my sound. I tend to play bright so this current Lawler setup is a tad brighter than I’m wanting but still sounds great.

I truly feel the red brass all around will help warm up my sound and give me the sound I want in my trombone.

He’ll give me a call when the model 2R is ready to try and will head back out for a 2nd visit with another friend who’s anxious to try Lawler out as well.

Will give an update at that time but for now I’ll wait for a small bore M&W to try and compare them both side by side and make an informed decision accordingly but so far A++ for the Lawler.

Got my work cut out for me to find something better but who knows, might just buy them both and sell my Edwards if I like both of them.

I have videos to share of my Edwards vs Lawler but not sure how to post them here.

[TromboneMonkey]

I have put away all my other horns since settling on the Lawler setup I like.

It's quite amazing how different each setup is from the next-- even the bell flares have an extreme effect on the way the horn feels and sounds, and I've never played a horn more sensitive to a leadpipe or mouthpiece switch. To me it really requires being "dialed in" to get the most out of it, but since dialing it in, it's been phenomenal.

Also, Roy is great to work with.

[thepianoman04]

Well,

I had my 2nd visit at Roy Lawler’s shop to try a model 2R with a red brass stem and then a 3Z with a bronze stem to see which one I liked best.

After playing the 2R and 3Z back to back I quickly noticed the slotting on the 2R with the more traditional bracing was the way I was starting to lean.

I loved the sound and open blow of the 3Z but couldn’t get the efficiency and accuracy like I could on the 2R even with the same dual bore .500/.508 nickel outer slide on both bell sections.

So, once I settled on the 2R which he had a nickel neck pipe, red brass stem and tuning slide with yellow inners it was time to pinpoint the 2 flares I wanted.

So, I don’t remember which ones I started with as anyone who has visited previously probably knows after a while the flares tried all run together until you hone in on the ones that just stand out and you keep coming back to them.

For me, the first one that stuck out (to my surprise) was an 8” yellow brass .022 gauge flare.

It just had this big, phat trombone sound to it and projected like no other without getting brighter. I typically play pretty bright already so I thought the red brass and bronze would be the way I’d end up going but my friend Josh, Roy himself and my wife when I got home all 3 agreed there was just something about the sound I made with that 8” yellow brass .022 flare that was the sound they would have been aiming for.

The 2nd flare was a little trickier to pinpoint but had my mind set on getting a bronze flare to counter the yellow flare to give me a wide range of sound spectrum between my 2 flares.

Since the stem was red brass instead of Bronze like the 3Z, I wanted to get a similar sound to my current Edwards T-302 and the Bronze material gave that sound to me so I played a couple different bronze flares from 7 3/4” to 8” and eventually settled on a .025 7.5” bronze flare that just had a good character to it.

So there you have it. I tried the straight .508 bore slide and just wasn’t as nimble as the dual bore (go figure) and already have a .508 bore slide and wanted something new and to have another slide size option.

Always have played nickel outers with a brass end crook (dual radius) so that’s what Roy had made for me.

Only flare Roy said I may be interested in trying down the road is maybe the exact same Bronze flare but in a 7 3/4” size instead of 7.5” but would probably be splitting hairs.

I’m perfectly happy with my setup I settled on so maybe down the road I’ll try another Bronze flare but for now I’m a happy customer!

Final setup is below:
2R (red brass) .025 gauge STD stem
Nickel neck pipe
Red brass tuning slide with yellow inners
7.5” Bronze flare .025 gauge
8” yellow brass flare .022 gauge
Dual Bore .500/.508 Ultra lightweight slide with Nickel outers and brass dual radius end crook

Hope this helps someone else in their quest to buy a Lawler. Would strongly recommend and even my friend Josh who is not on the market for a new horn said how well they played and sounded vintage but played like a modern horn.

He will probably own one soon.

If you’re contemplating whether to visit Roy’s shop or not, definitely do whether you’re on the market for a horn or not. Just fun to do and is like being a kid in a candy shop!

Until next time,
Lance

[JerryY]

Congratulations on your purchase.

I purchased my Lawler last November after my wife and I drove down from Buffalo, NY to try his trombones. I have always played and preferred a red brass bell, all nickel slide setup whether small or large bore. After consulting with Roy via email and on the phone, I made the trip there. He had made the first 3Z bell stem which he though I might like - he was spot on. I played the red and yellow stems in the model 1 and 2 with various flares and went right back to the all bronze stem in the model 3. I ended up with the model 3 bronze stem with a 7.5" and 8" bronze (.022 flare) flare with the .500 bore all nickel slide and #15 leadpipe. I use it with my Elliott MN104/C+/D2 and it is amazing! The 8" flare is broad and smooth but really projects when pushed. I sent back the original 8" red flare and got the 7.5" bronze flare which is immediate in articulations. It cuts well at any volume and the projection makes it play as if your mic'd when soloing. The band says the sound is great out front! Roy was a pleasure to work with and very accommodating. I have tried many instruments over the years and never played anything this fun.

Jerry

[Mikebmiller]

When I went to Roy's my GPS took me the back way through somebody's cow pasture before finally getting me to his house. Very pretty country through there, but you gotta want to go. It ain't near anything!

[TheSheriff]

Well,

I had my 2nd visit at Roy Lawler’s shop to try a model 2R with a red brass stem and then a 3Z with a bronze stem to see which one I liked best.

After playing the 2R and 3Z back to back I quickly noticed the slotting on the 2R with the more traditional bracing was the way I was starting to lean.

I loved the sound and open blow of the 3Z but couldn’t get the efficiency and accuracy like I could on the 2R even with the same dual bore .500/.508 nickel outer slide on both bell sections.

So, once I settled on the 2R which he had a nickel neck pipe, red brass stem and tuning slide with yellow inners it was time to pinpoint the 2 flares I wanted.

So, I don’t remember which ones I started with as anyone who has visited previously probably knows after a while the flares tried all run together until you hone in on the ones that just stand out and you keep coming back to them.

For me, the first one that stuck out (to my surprise) was an 8” yellow brass .022 gauge flare.

It just had this big, phat trombone sound to it and projected like no other without getting brighter. I typically play pretty bright already so I thought the red brass and bronze would be the way I’d end up going but my friend Josh, Roy himself and my wife when I got home all 3 agreed there was just something about the sound I made with that 8” yellow brass .022 flare that was the sound they would have been aiming for.

The 2nd flare was a little trickier to pinpoint but had my mind set on getting a bronze flare to counter the yellow flare to give me a wide range of sound spectrum between my 2 flares.

Since the stem was red brass instead of Bronze like the 3Z, I wanted to get a similar sound to my current Edwards T-302 and the Bronze material gave that sound to me so I played a couple different bronze flares from 7 3/4” to 8” and eventually settled on a .025 7.5” bronze flare that just had a good character to it.

So there you have it. I tried the straight .508 bore slide and just wasn’t as nimble as the dual bore (go figure) and already have a .508 bore slide and wanted something new and to have another slide size option.

Always have played nickel outers with a brass end crook (dual radius) so that’s what Roy had made for me.

Only flare Roy said I may be interested in trying down the road is maybe the exact same Bronze flare but in a 7 3/4” size instead of 7.5” but would probably be splitting hairs.

I’m perfectly happy with my setup I settled on so maybe down the road I’ll try another Bronze flare but for now I’m a happy customer!

Final setup is below:
2R (red brass stem)
Nickel neck pipe
Red brass tuning slide with yellow inners
7.5” Bronze flare .025 gauge
8” yellow brass flare .022 gauge
Dual Bore .500/.508 slide with Nickel outers and brass dual radius end crook

Hope this helps someone else in their quest to buy a Lawler. Would strongly recommend and even my friend Josh who is not on the market for a new horn said how well they played and sounded vintage but played like a modern horn.

He will probably own one soon.

If you’re contemplating whether to visit Roy’s shop or not, definitely do whether you’re on the market for a horn or not. Just fun to do and is like being a kid in a candy shop!

Until next time,
Lance

..
Maybe I missed it. Is the stem .022 or .025? Congrats on your new Lawler. Great horns!
..

[thepianoman04]

Well,

I had my 2nd visit at Roy Lawler’s shop to try a model 2R with a red brass stem and then a 3Z with a bronze stem to see which one I liked best.

After playing the 2R and 3Z back to back I quickly noticed the slotting on the 2R with the more traditional bracing was the way I was starting to lean.

I loved the sound and open blow of the 3Z but couldn’t get the efficiency and accuracy like I could on the 2R even with the same dual bore .500/.508 nickel outer slide on both bell sections.

So, once I settled on the 2R which he had a nickel neck pipe, red brass stem and tuning slide with yellow inners it was time to pinpoint the 2 flares I wanted.

So, I don’t remember which ones I started with as anyone who has visited previously probably knows after a while the flares tried all run together until you hone in on the ones that just stand out and you keep coming back to them.

For me, the first one that stuck out (to my surprise) was an 8” yellow brass .022 gauge flare.

It just had this big, phat trombone sound to it and projected like no other without getting brighter. I typically play pretty bright already so I thought the red brass and bronze would be the way I’d end up going but my friend Josh, Roy himself and my wife when I got home all 3 agreed there was just something about the sound I made with that 8” yellow brass .022 flare that was the sound they would have been aiming for.

The 2nd flare was a little trickier to pinpoint but had my mind set on getting a bronze flare to counter the yellow flare to give me a wide range of sound spectrum between my 2 flares.

Since the stem was red brass instead of Bronze like the 3Z, I wanted to get a similar sound to my current Edwards T-302 and the Bronze material gave that sound to me so I played a couple different bronze flares from 7 3/4” to 8” and eventually settled on a .025 7.5” bronze flare that just had a good character to it.

So there you have it. I tried the straight .508 bore slide and just wasn’t as nimble as the dual bore (go figure) and already have a .508 bore slide and wanted something new and to have another slide size option.

Always have played nickel outers with a brass end crook (dual radius) so that’s what Roy had made for me.

Only flare Roy said I may be interested in trying down the road is maybe the exact same Bronze flare but in a 7 3/4” size instead of 7.5” but would probably be splitting hairs.

I’m perfectly happy with my setup I settled on so maybe down the road I’ll try another Bronze flare but for now I’m a happy customer!

Final setup is below:
2R (red brass stem)
Nickel neck pipe
Red brass tuning slide with yellow inners
7.5” Bronze flare .025 gauge
8” yellow brass flare .022 gauge
Dual Bore .500/.508 slide with Nickel outers and brass dual radius end crook

Hope this helps someone else in their quest to buy a Lawler. Would strongly recommend and even my friend Josh who is not on the market for a new horn said how well they played and sounded vintage but played like a modern horn.

He will probably own one soon.

If you’re contemplating whether to visit Roy’s shop or not, definitely do whether you’re on the market for a horn or not. Just fun to do and is like being a kid in a candy shop!

Until next time,
Lance

..
Maybe I missed it. Is the stem .022 or .025? Congrats on your new Lawler. Great horns!
..

Good catch! I forgot to mention that in the OP.

The stem is red brass .025 (STD) weight.

Also, I forgot to mention that the slide is the ultra lightweight (not STD) with nickel outers & brass end crook.
Thanks!

[johntarr]

Congratulations on your purchase.

I purchased my Lawler last November after my wife and I drove down from Buffalo, NY to try his trombones. I have always played and preferred a red brass bell, all nickel slide setup whether small or large bore. After consulting with Roy via email and on the phone, I made the trip there. He had made the first 3Z bell stem which he though I might like - he was spot on. I played the red and yellow stems in the model 1 and 2 with various flares and went right back to the all bronze stem in the model 3. I ended up with the model 3 bronze stem with a 7.5" and 8" bronze (.022 flare) flare with the .500 bore all nickel slide and #15 leadpipe. I use it with my Elliott MN104/C+/D2 and it is amazing! The 8" flare is broad and smooth but really projects when pushed. I sent back the original 8" red flare and got the 7.5" bronze flare which is immediate in articulations. It cuts well at any volume and the projection makes it play as if your mic'd when soloing. The band says the sound is great out front! Roy was a pleasure to work with and very accommodating. I have tried many instruments over the years and never played anything this fun.

Jerry

Sounds really interesting, that bronze flair. What is it like in the weight department, is it heavier than brass?

[JerryY]

My bronze stem (.022) with the lightweight flare doesn't really weigh more than other horns I've played. I never really concerned myself with weight, as much as balance.

Jerry

[DaveAshley]

I've had my Lawler for four years now. It took a while to settle on a leadpipe, but I chose the Kanstul W6 a few years ago and have been very happy.

My Model 1 is .025 all yellow brass with the standard weight all-nickel .500 slide. I also have an .022 all-yellow Model 3 stem and a Butler carbon fiber outer slide. (I must say that the pandemic has prevented me from really putting the Model 3 to the test. I definitely like it, though!)

I have four flares - Silver Plated .022 7.5in yellow, Raw yellow .022 8in, Gold .022 7 3/4, and bronze .025 8in. The 7.5 and the bronze are obviously the most different. I don't really find myself playing the other two very often. I may sell them off....

Having owned probably at least 50 small bore trombones over the last 20 years, I can say with confidence that the Lawler is as close to a perfect horn as I've ever played. My Williams 6 is VERY close, but it has more quirks and not quite as interesting a sound as the Lawler.

[thepianoman04]

I've had my Lawler for four years now. It took a while to settle on a leadpipe, but I chose the Kanstul W6 a few years ago and have been very happy.

My Model 1 is .025 all yellow brass with the standard weight all-nickel .500 slide. I also have an .022 all-yellow Model 3 stem and a Butler carbon fiber outer slide. (I must say that the pandemic has prevented me from really putting the Model 3 to the test. I definitely like it, though!)

I have four flares - Silver Plated .022 7.5in yellow, Raw yellow .022 8in, Gold .022 7 3/4, and bronze .025 8in. The 7.5 and the bronze are obviously the most different. I don't really find myself playing the other two very often. I may sell them off....

Having owned probably at least 50 small bore trombones over the last 20 years, I can say with confidence that the Lawler is as close to a perfect horn as I've ever played. My Williams 6 is VERY close, but it has more quirks and not quite as interesting a sound as the Lawler.

Glad to hear that even after you trying 50+ horns over 20 years that the Lawler is at the top of your list of best horns.

I’m definitely feeling the same way so far with the little bit I’ve practiced on it compared to the 10+ horns I’ve tried thus far in my life.

I agree that my Bronze .025 7.5” and my yellow .022 8” flares are polar opposites but both sound great and was surprised how much I liked the sound of the yellow brass considering I’m a bright player.

I went to Roy’s shop thinking I didn’t want any yellow brass on my horn at all as it’s too bright yet it’s the favorite flare of Roy, my wife & friend Josh that went with me to pick up the horn and doesn’t make me bright, just full trombone sound that can project when pushed.

I’m a happy customer and don’t see myself getting rid of this horn.

[Rusty]

Any reports on Roy’s brass lightweight slide vs nickel slide? I see on his website he advocates for an all brass setup.

[thepianoman04]

Any reports on Roy’s brass lightweight slide vs nickel slide? I see on his website he advocates for an all brass setup.

Yea, he started me out on an all yellow brass setup and it just didn’t work for me. I immediately swapped out the slide for the lightweight nickel silver outers with a dual radius brass end crook as that’s what I’ve been used to and just get a quicker response from the nickel silver outers.

Also, I’m a bright player so I wanted to go to as much copper content as possible and thought I’d want a bronze stem but he made the Model 3 with a bronze stem (90% copper/10% zync) and the model 2 with a red brass stem (85% copper/15% zync) and wasn’t worth making another model 2 with a bronze stem and felt I might lose the ease of playing from the red brass stem with a bronze flare vs the bronze stem with the bronze flare alone was heavier/harder to push vs the red brass stem with a yellow brass flare.

[BGuttman]

Pedantic note: Bronze is an alloy of copper and tin (no zinc). Red Brass (90/10) has sometimes been called (incorrectly) bronze. Gold brass is 80/20 and Rose Brass is 85/15.

[thepianoman04]

Pedantic note: Bronze is an alloy of copper and tin (no zinc). Red Brass (90/10) has sometimes been called (incorrectly) bronze. Gold brass is 80/20 and Rose Brass is 85/15.

That’s exactly what I thought but Roy calls his alloy types as yellow brass (70/30), Red Brass (85/15) and Bronze (90/10).

I kept getting confused when he would say Red Brass and I’d be like yea, that’s what I want (90/10) and he said then you want Bronze. I told him I consider red brass (90/10) and rose or gold brass (85/15) and yellow (70/30).

I just started using his terminology for anyone that has visited so they know which of his alloys/names I went with. lol

[bbalika]

Can anyone highlight more of the differences they noticed between the bronze and red brass flares? I ordered my horn with the 8” yellow brass flare that helped me decide my ideal set-up at ITF a few years ago (Model 1 .500 nickel slide w/ brass crook, yellow .22 stem). I’m looking into buying a 7.5” flare for lead playing but can’t decide between bronze or red brass. Any input would be helpful!

[thepianoman04]

Can anyone highlight more of the differences they noticed between the bronze and red brass flares? I ordered my horn with the 8” yellow brass flare that helped me decide my ideal set-up at ITF a few years ago (Model 1 .500 nickel slide w/ brass crook, yellow .22 stem). I’m looking into buying a 7.5” flare for lead playing but can’t decide between bronze or red brass. Any input would be helpful!

I would say for lead playing to go with the Red Brass flare over the Bronze.

When I played both in 7.5” the red brass was much easier to push and Bronze took a little more effort to get some edge.

For lead playing that would be my advice. Now the real question is whether you should get the red brass 7.5” flare in .022 or .025 gauge. My guess would be .022 but would probably be one you’d need to try in person to see which one you like better.

If you got the 8” yellow flare why is that not more for your lead playing?

I have a 7.5” .025 bronze flare and a 8” .022 yellow flare and by far the yellow flare is what I use for lead playing and the bronze flare for section playing or bigger ensemble settings.

Just my 2 cents.

[bbalika]

Very interesting. Thanks for the input!

I’m definitely going for the lightweight flare. The .25s that I tried felt like they needed a lot of effort to speak. I just can’t remember if I preferred the red or bronze bells.

The yellow flare is awesome, but having another color option is interesting to me. I just don’t feel like I’m getting a lead trombone sound out of it.

[DaveAshley]

The flare I use for most big band lead playing is a yellow 7.5" (which I had silver plated). I tend to think of yellow brass as being more ideal for a "lead" sound. I sure do love the bronze 8" though, and might use it to play lead in a really loud band.

(BTW If anyone is interested in a barely used .022 7 3/4" red flare, I'm willing to sell it or perhaps trade it for another. It's the best looking flare I have and it plays great, but I've found I only use the bronze 8" and the yellow 7.5. For me, having anything in between those two is just unnecessary!)

[Nobbi]

A Lawler 3 I can call my own, now.
What an amazing trombone. My most favourite sound at the moment I get with a 0.025 7.75" bronze flare.
Just the #15 leadpipe is not my favourite, yet. I tried a Shires To #1 Sterling silver which sounds great and a Rath 1 standard which sounded very open as well. I keep testing.

@DaveAshley
I might be interested in the red flare.

[TheSheriff]

A Lawler 3 I can call my own, now.
What an amazing trombone. My most favourite sound at the moment I get with a 0.025 7.75" bronze flare.
Just the #15 leadpipe is not my favourite, yet. I tried a Shires To #1 Sterling silver which sounds great and a Rath 1 standard which sounded very open as well. I keep testing.

@DaveAshley
I might be interested in the red flare.

..
The model 3 is a great horn! FWIW, I planted the design seed in Roy's head for the model 3. I saw photos of a Williams model 9 f-attachment and it had the long candy cane neckpipe/tuning slide. So I sent those pics to Roy and we discussed the possibilities.........the rest is history and Roy came through with a fantastic trombone.

..

[Nobbi]

I have a questions to the experienced lawler players:

1. My model 3 (red brass stem, yellow brass main crook and neck pipe) came with a #5 Leadpipe. Since I love the more open sound, does anyone of you have played Roy's Pipes #5, #10 and #15 in comparison? Or should I go for a Rath R1 or Shires?

2. I have a 0.025 7.75" bronze flare and a 0.022 7.5" yellow brass flare ... I am thinking of gettings a 8" red brass flare ... what is your experience for a nice soft sound? 0.022 or 0.025?

I would like to ask Roy to send my the Pipes and the Flare for testing if you guys can't help my out with experience. Maybe I should do it anyway.

[JerryY]

I have the model three all bronze stem crook and neck pipe. .500 bore all nickel slide. I have the .022 7.5" and 8" flares in bronze. I went to his shop and played the model 1, 2, and 3 in different configurations but all with the .500 nickel slide. This horn is great! I tried all three pipes and took the #10 and #15 when I purchased it. I only play on the #15. I like an open horn. The #15 pipe is perfect for me, I actually ordered a second as a spare to use with another horn. I did move from the Elliott D+ cup to the C+ cup when I opened up the leadpipe. My sound is now more centered and articulate but has the broadness I was looking for. When I first purchased it, I had the 7.5" red brass flare also, but traded it for the 7.5" bronze.

Jerry

[johntarr]

I have a questions to the experienced lawler players:

2. I have a 0.025 7.75" bronze flare and a 0.022 7.5" yellow brass flare ... I am thinking of gettings a 8" red brass flare ... what is your experience for a nice soft sound? 0.022 or 0.025?

I would like to ask Roy to send my the Pipes and the Flare for testing if you guys can't help my out with experience. Maybe I should do it anyway.

My experience is with the Big Boy so may not apply. I found (and others listening as well) the .22-8” red flare to be the brightest, the .25-7.5” yellow brass flare to be the darkest/warmest and the .25-8” bronze in between those two and the most interesting. I’ll test them again when I get a .508 bore slide. I suspect a .25 red flare would be the warmest, but this is just a guess.

[TheSheriff]

I have a questions to the experienced lawler players:

1. My model 3 (red brass stem, yellow brass main crook and neck pipe) came with a #5 Leadpipe. Since I love the more open sound, does anyone of you have played Roy's Pipes #5, #10 and #15 in comparison? Or should I go for a Rath R1 or Shires?

2. I have a 0.025 7.75" bronze flare and a 0.022 7.5" yellow brass flare ... I am thinking of gettings a 8" red brass flare ... what is your experience for a nice soft sound? 0.022 or 0.025?

I would like to ask Roy to send my the Pipes and the Flare for testing if you guys can't help my out with experience. Maybe I should do it anyway.

..
The #5 is a very tight pipe and my least favorite of his. I find the #15 to be woofy and not centered. The #10 is his best in my opinion. Try as many pipes as you can get your hands on.
..

[thepianoman04]

I have a questions to the experienced lawler players:

1. My model 3 (red brass stem, yellow brass main crook and neck pipe) came with a #5 Leadpipe. Since I love the more open sound, does anyone of you have played Roy's Pipes #5, #10 and #15 in comparison? Or should I go for a Rath R1 or Shires?

2. I have a 0.025 7.75" bronze flare and a 0.022 7.5" yellow brass flare ... I am thinking of getting a 8" red brass flare ... what is your experience for a nice soft sound? 0.022 or 0.025?

I would like to ask Roy to send my the Pipes and the Flare for testing if you guys can't help my out with experience. Maybe I should do it anyway.

After reading what TheSheriff said about the #5 being very tight and his least favorite and the #15 being woofy & not centered, I took it upon myself to take all the lead pipes Roy offers & was kind enough to ship them to me to try and see if there was any truth to his comments.

I had originally settled on a #8 lead pipe that Roy made for me because I originally thought like The Sheriff that the #5 was way to small and the #15 was not settling for me on faster licks or articulations. The #15 I liked to use on occasion to give me some more breathing room to pop out the high register since I tend to use a bit more air and can get stuffy on my dual bore slide but still was merely a back up lead pipe as I thought the #8 was it for me.

After finally trying out the #10 lead pipe after not using it at all out of the 3 Roy sent, I was amazed at how right The Sheriff was. I hadn't been using the #10 all this time because I figured my #8 would be close enough and just wanted to try the #15 to give me a different option and open up even more but after playing my #8 and the #15 side by side then going to the under-used #10 I was shocked when playing the same licks on each lead pipe how many less chipped notes I hit while using the #10 vs the #8 and especially the #15. The #8 now suddenly felt a little bit stuffier and didn't allow my lips to get comfortable/centered compared to the #10.

Just throwing it out there that I agree now that the #10 is for me the best lead pipe Roy offers and will be returning the #15 & #8 lead pipes as the #10 feels like home now.

Hope that helps & thanks to this forum and The Sheriffs comment I'm even more happy with my Lawler than I already was the day I brought it home.

[Nobbi]

You guys help a lot .... that sounds very promising to me.
I just have to disagree with johntarr about the red flare sound. With Flugelhorns and red brass bells you get the most warm and mellow sound, it would surprise me if it's vice versa with trombones. Since I am always open for new things, teach me different. Nuances in the sounds are a personal matter anyway.

If I can get Roy to send me the pipes and the 8" red flare, it doesn't matter if the package contains one pipe or two (#10 and #15).

[BGuttman]

The thing about red, rose, and gold brass is that they are more mellow at low volumes, but will change character when pushed hard. That is why yellow brass sometimes is preferred -- it's consistently what it is. That said, I love gold brass bells on my trombones.

[johntarr]

You guys help a lot .... that sounds very promising to me.
I just have to disagree with johntarr about the red flare sound. With Flugelhorns and red brass bells you get the most warm and mellow sound, it would surprise me if it's vice versa with trombones. Since I am always open for new things, teach me different. Nuances in the sounds are a personal matter anyway.

If I can get Roy to send me the pipes and the 8" red flare, it doesn't matter if the package contains one pipe or two (#10 and #15).

This was just what I found with those specific Lawler flares. My observations were also corroborated by others listening. Of course I was surprised as well but I think that the gauge made more of a difference. As I said above, I suspect that a .25 red flare will be darker/warmer than a .25 yellow flare. However, I found the .25 yellow flare to be darker/warmer than the .22 red flare. And, this is all very subjective so my experience may be completely different than another’s.

We tend to have these ideas that are based on tradition, such as a certain kind of brass will sound in a certain way but the whole system, player, instrument and room is so complex that we can only approach knowing how different combinations will sound. To add to that, we change over time, both physically and mentally, so what was true for us 5 years ago may not be the same today or 5 years later.

[TheSheriff]

I have a questions to the experienced lawler players:

1. My model 3 (red brass stem, yellow brass main crook and neck pipe) came with a #5 Leadpipe. Since I love the more open sound, does anyone of you have played Roy's Pipes #5, #10 and #15 in comparison? Or should I go for a Rath R1 or Shires?

2. I have a 0.025 7.75" bronze flare and a 0.022 7.5" yellow brass flare ... I am thinking of getting a 8" red brass flare ... what is your experience for a nice soft sound? 0.022 or 0.025?

I would like to ask Roy to send my the Pipes and the Flare for testing if you guys can't help my out with experience. Maybe I should do it anyway.

After reading what TheSheriff said about the #5 being very tight and his least favorite and the #15 being woofy & not centered, I took it upon myself to take all the lead pipes Roy offers & was kind enough to ship them to me to try and see if there was any truth to his comments.

I had originally settled on a #8 lead pipe that Roy made for me because I originally thought like The Sheriff that the #5 was way to small and the #15 was not settling for me on faster licks or articulations. The #15 I liked to use on occasion to give me some more breathing room to pop out the high register since I tend to use a bit more air and can get stuffy on my dual bore slide but still was merely a back up lead pipe as I thought the #8 was it for me.

After finally trying out the #10 lead pipe after not using it at all out of the 3 Roy sent, I was amazed at how right The Sheriff was. I hadn't been using the #10 all this time because I figured my #8 would be close enough and just wanted to try the #15 to give me a different option and open up even more but after playing my #8 and the #15 side by side then going to the under-used #10 I was shocked when playing the same licks on each lead pipe how many less chipped notes I hit while using the #10 vs the #8 and especially the #15. The #8 now suddenly felt a little bit stuffier and didn't allow my lips to get comfortable/centered compared to the #10.

Just throwing it out there that I agree now that the #10 is for me the best lead pipe Roy offers and will be returning the #15 & #8 lead pipes as the #10 feels like home now.

Hope that helps & thanks to this forum and The Sheriffs comment I'm even more happy with my Lawler than I already was the day I brought it home.

..
I am unfamiliar with the #8 as it was unavailable at the time I bought his horns. I am glad to know you like the #10. It is probably best to stop messing with pipes now and get to work! Yup.
..

[thepianoman04]

After reading what TheSheriff said about the #5 being very tight and his least favorite and the #15 being woofy & not centered, I took it upon myself to take all the lead pipes Roy offers & was kind enough to ship them to me to try and see if there was any truth to his comments.

I had originally settled on a #8 lead pipe that Roy made for me because I originally thought like The Sheriff that the #5 was way to small and the #15 was not settling for me on faster licks or articulations. The #15 I liked to use on occasion to give me some more breathing room to pop out the high register since I tend to use a bit more air and can get stuffy on my dual bore slide but still was merely a back up lead pipe as I thought the #8 was it for me.

After finally trying out the #10 lead pipe after not using it at all out of the 3 Roy sent, I was amazed at how right The Sheriff was. I hadn't been using the #10 all this time because I figured my #8 would be close enough and just wanted to try the #15 to give me a different option and open up even more but after playing my #8 and the #15 side by side then going to the under-used #10 I was shocked when playing the same licks on each lead pipe how many less chipped notes I hit while using the #10 vs the #8 and especially the #15. The #8 now suddenly felt a little bit stuffier and didn't allow my lips to get comfortable/centered compared to the #10.

Just throwing it out there that I agree now that the #10 is for me the best lead pipe Roy offers and will be returning the #15 & #8 lead pipes as the #10 feels like home now.

Hope that helps & thanks to this forum and The Sheriffs comment I'm even more happy with my Lawler than I already was the day I brought it home.

..
I am unfamiliar with the #8 as it was unavailable at the time I bought his horns. I am glad to know you like the #10. It is probably best to stop messing with pipes now and get to work! Yup.
..

Yea, Roy didn’t have a #8 lead pipe but he took a #10 pipe and tweaked it a little bit (I watched him tightened it up with a couple hits of his hammer) to customize it to be in between the #5 & #10.

Not even sure if it’s truly a #8 but that was Roy’s best guess.

[Nobbi]

I just talked to him on the phone .... super nice calm guy. It was a pleasure.
Most important: he will pack a little package to me.
Patience is unfortunately not my second name ....