Odd eBay Holton

elmsandr · Post by **elmsandr** » Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:38 am

Apologies to anybody interested in this horn, but I can’t figure out what this is:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1928-Frank-Ho ... 1438.l2649

Slide looks too long to me for this thing to be in Bb. G? F?

Seller is not a player. I asked them to measure the total length of the tube, they said the first piece is about 111”.

Went looking for some old catalogs and couldn’t find anything that made sense of what this could be.

Thoughts?
Andy

thatme · Post by **thatme** » Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:19 am

I have no idea, but it’s really cool. It looks like a double slide, but maybe that’s just the way I’m lookin at it? Hopefully someone knows what’s going on with this one!

11561man · Post by **11561man** » Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:41 am

Wow, no idea. Nice find, though.

Post by **BGuttman** » Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:27 pm

It's got the same counterweight as I have on my 1925 Olds. So that must be after-market.

My guess is an F Bass to play the Bartok Gliss.

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:28 pm

thatme wrote: Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:19 am I have no idea, but it’s really cool. It looks like a double slide, but maybe that’s just the way I’m lookin at it? Hopefully someone knows what’s going on with this one!

It's definitely a double slide.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that it's a bass of some sort, maybe an F or G bass?

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:32 pm

BGuttman wrote: Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:27 pm It's got the same counterweight as I have on my 1925 Olds. So that must be after-market.

My guess is an F Bass to play the Bartok Gliss.

Bruce, the bell is marked LP, and Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra dates to 1943.

I think that the horn predates the Concerto. But for sure it could be an F bass. The double slide would mean no handle necessary. Of course, the double slide also means 6 times the trouble for slide alignment.

Posaunus · Post by **Posaunus** » Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:43 pm

I sure hope a TromboneChat member buys this and gives us a report!

jacobgarchik · Post by **jacobgarchik** » Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:25 am

Pretty sure it's an Eb bass. 111" slide = 27" per tube * 6= approx 13.8 ft total tubing, about the same as Eb tuba.

Conn made a double slide Eb bass in the 20s (original 72h) so maybe this was the Holton equivalent.

https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/ConnTrbHFull.html

thatme · Post by **thatme** » Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:58 am

Posaunus wrote: Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:43 pm I sure hope a TromboneChat member buys this and gives us a report!

I’ll buy it as long as you guys stop bidding it up. Lol. I promise a full report.

jacobgarchik · Post by **jacobgarchik** » Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:45 am

It's cheap enough that if it plays well you could put a trigger on it and come away with a budget contrabass. Not sure what the shank or the bore is going to be. I wonder if the double slide means you would get a decent 7 positions and therefore be fully chromatic except be missing a Low E.

tbonesullivan · Post by **tbonesullivan** » Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:15 pm

Weren't there some horns made with double slides to take up less space? I think the Navy had some, and the USMC is technically part of the Navy

mrdeacon · Post by **mrdeacon** » Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:34 pm

Has anyone contacted Byron Pillow about this? He's usually the guy when it comes to this stuff.

elmsandr · Post by **elmsandr** » Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:43 pm

tbonesullivan wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:15 pm Weren't there some horns made with double slides to take up less space? I think the Navy had some, and the USMC is technically part of the Navy

Perhaps, but the slide appears to be a bit long for that...

Some pictures that the seller took on my request:

AE6BE1D5-18E5-4A73-8876-3A9C9EB86E61.jpeg

D240E67A-8909-4498-9423-0C56838BD7C4.jpeg

287D1F8E-406E-4931-A822-461B2BDC688D.jpeg

Post by **BGuttman** » Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:03 pm

Do my eyes deceive me (I do have cataracts, after all) or are two of the legs on the moving part "reversed" (i.e. go inside of the fixed part)?

A 24" double slide would mean just the slide portion is about the length of a Bb trombone. Add the bell and we're close to Eb.

JohnL · Post by **JohnL** » Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:51 pm

The seller has posted that the overall length is 199"; that's getting into low C territory.

But I wonder how accurate that is. Each leg of the slide is ~24"; that would mean that you'd need to have 103" in the crooks and the bell section. Seems a bit much.

elmsandr · Post by **elmsandr** » Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:11 pm

It is reversed!

My guess is that it is in F. ~96 in the slide, a bit over 40 in the bell section seems reasonable.

Cheers,
Andy

Post by **BGuttman** » Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:14 pm

If the slide assembly is 24 inches long, the overall bell appears the same so I'd estimate it at 36". Add 96 inches for the slide and you get 132 inches (11 feet, or about 3.3 meters). I think that puts us more like F.

elmsandr · Post by **elmsandr** » Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:38 am

C5724B41-656F-4281-A049-5EE142CD1BE7.jpeg

Doug Yeo with the Osmun F bass for example.

For fun (generous rounding and assumptions here):
Bb 110”
G. 132”
F 148”
Eb 167”
C 199”
Bb 222”

I’m still thinking F, but I am almost getting curious enough to build something.

Next fun bet, what do we think the bore is? How big did Holton make at that time?
Andy

Vegastokc · Post by **Vegastokc** » Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:04 am

Posaunus wrote: Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:43 pm I sure hope a TromboneChat member buys this and gives us a report!

Here, here.
What an interesting horn.
I would do it If I had the money - and if my wife would let me bring yet another brass instrument into the house.

But I will gladly live vicariously through thatme.
Or maybe Trent Hamilton will snatch it up and then we can all see it on YouTube. This looks like something he would put on his Wall.

Post by **BGuttman** » Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:24 am

I actually got a chance to blow that bass when I was in Osmun's shop. It was in Eb.

Based on Andy's estimate of length, I suspect this puppy is in G. Would be expected since the G Bass was common in England at the time. If it's a G Bass, it may have an obscenely small bore. For the moment last night I was high bidder, but I expect to be outbid.

Posaunus · Post by **Posaunus** » Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:05 pm

BGuttman wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:24 am For the moment last night I was high bidder, but I expect to be outbid.

Hope you get it Bruce. Then you can analyze / dissect it for the rest of us.

Elow · Post by **Elow** » Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:32 pm

Anyone from the forum bidding on it currently, if not im gonna start.

thatme · Post by **thatme** » Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:36 pm

All of the action will be in the last 30 seconds. Nearly 50 watchers at the moment, I’m sure some forum members will be involved (myself at least, but I suspect several others).

Elow · Post by **Elow** » Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:42 pm

thatme wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:36 pm All of the action will be in the last 30 seconds. Nearly 50 watchers at the moment, I’m sure some forum members will be involved (myself at least, but I suspect several others).

Well then good luck to any forum members bidding tomorrow.

thatme · Post by **thatme** » Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:43 pm

Thanks, we’ll see.

Seller said he’s selling it for a friend who was planning to junk it or put it out at a garage sale. Will be interested to see where it ends up.

Post by **BGuttman** » Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:19 pm

Elow wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:32 pm Anyone from the forum bidding on it currently, if not im gonna start.

Symphonybone is me.

Posaunus · Post by **Posaunus** » Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:52 pm

BGuttman wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:19 pm Symphonybone is me.

Bruce,

Your name is anonymous to other eBay users, who just see a pseudonym.
For instance, the $185.00 bid on 5 Apr 2020 shows up on my eBay as "b***0"

Let's hope that not too many TromboneChat members bid the price of this interesting historical artifact through the sky!

Post by **BGuttman** » Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:39 pm

Well, somebody outbid me. We'll have to see how it goes. Was it you who outbid me?

Posaunus · Post by **Posaunus** » Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:55 pm

BGuttman wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:39 pm Well, somebody outbid me. We'll have to see how it goes. Was it you who outbid me?

OK, Chatters. It's time to step back and let Bruce fight off the competitors, mano a mano, until the bidding ends.

I'm sure that if Bruce wins, he'll give us a great report on this interesting trombone. (But may not play it in the Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra).

Let the battle resume!

elmsandr · Post by **elmsandr** » Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:41 pm

BGuttman wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:39 pm Well, somebody outbid me. We'll have to see how it goes. Was it you who outbid me?

Not yet, but my plan was a snipe anyway.

Cheers,
Andy

brassmedic · Post by **brassmedic** » Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:22 am

elmsandr wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:41 pm
BGuttman wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:39 pm Well, somebody outbid me. We'll have to see how it goes. Was it you who outbid me?
Not yet, but my plan was a snipe anyway.

Cheers,
Andy

That's really the only smart way to do eBay now.

elmsandr · Post by **elmsandr** » Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:04 am

brassmedic wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:22 am
elmsandr wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:41 pm

Not yet, but my plan was a snipe anyway.

Cheers,
Andy
That's really the only smart way to do eBay now.

Even smarter is plotting with another bidder in this thread and realizing that it is worth more to him than me.

Working this out with thatme, he’s going to be in for more than I would on this. Good luck to y’all and promise a full report!

Doing some research on a Model 6 bass by Holton in the 20’s, my guess is this thing has an 8.5” bell and a .530 bore. Now just need to figure out what key it is in and whether or not it plays in any useful way.

Cheers,
Andy

thatme · Post by **thatme** » Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:30 am

I have a feeling it’s going to go above my limit too, but we’ll see.

Post by **BGuttman** » Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:15 am

Too much for me. Good luck to whoever buys it.

Elow · Post by **Elow** » Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:29 am

BGuttman wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:15 am Too much for me. Good luck to whoever buys it.

I just wanted to buy to to mess with it and i already bid it up to $750 so whoever wants it really wants it.

thatme · Post by **thatme** » Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:30 am

WHOA!!

thatme · Post by **thatme** » Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:30 am

And not me. I was willing to go to $800, but never bid, it went nuts.

Post by **Doug Elliott** » Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:31 am

Who got it?
I didn't bid but I've been following. I really didn't think it would go that high, but I'm not totally surprised.

Elow · Post by **Elow** » Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:40 am

Doug Elliott wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:31 am Who got it?
I didn't bid but I've been following. I really didn't think it would go that high, but I'm not totally surprised.

Yeah i thought $800 was a bit excessive and then it almost doubled. Really hoping someone from here got it.

brassmedic · Post by **brassmedic** » Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:07 pm

Wow! Somebody really wanted that. Sure wasn't me.

FOSSIL · Post by **FOSSIL** » Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:15 pm

I'm not surprised. To a collector that is highly desirable and could have easily made more...when did you see another? It looked in good condition too. Sad that I don't have the cash at the moment, but no way could you use it in the real world.... it's a collectable.
Chris

Posaunus · Post by **Posaunus** » Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:25 pm

FOSSIL wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:15 pm I'm not surprised. To a collector that is highly desirable and could have easily made more...when did you see another? It looked in good condition too. Sad that I don't have the cash at the moment, but no way could you use it in the real world.... it's a collectable.
Chris

Impressive sale price, Lots of lurkers bidding at the last minute.

Might make a nice room decoration – or a museum piece!

Sure hope we get a report on it.

thatme · Post by **thatme** » Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:32 pm

It looked very similar to this one in a video I came across:

Who knows, but really cool, wish I could have justified paying that much!

Post by **Matt K** » Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:42 pm

Elow · Post by **Elow** » Sun Dec 06, 2020 12:57 am

Did anyone on the forum get this?