A musical approach to valve coordination

[RustBeltBass]

Something I see in many young bass trombonists and that was always a challenge for me as well is a proper handling of both valves.

What I mean by that is not just hitting the right valve for the right note at the right time followed by another valve/note/time combination, but doing so in a way that allows for the music to continue flowing.

Occasionally I hear players doing a fantastic job in terms of how clean the low technical phrase they play is, and yet the use of the valve, while clean, still puts a damper on the phrase, so to speak, and interrupts what was a beautiful musical moment.

A lot has been written about a technically clean and yet very musical approach on how to use the slide, but I can not think of a lot of writing on a musical approach to trigger coordination. Is anyone aware of any materials ? Is that something you notice with students or your own playing ? How do you approach this in your teaching ?

[Burgerbob]

I feel it's just like coordinating tongue and slide in legato. There's many ways to do it, and we should use the right one for the task at hand. As quickly as possible is not always the right call, smooth and slower is not always the right call. In time, in style.

[GabrielRice]

Honestly, I'm not sure what you mean.

Valve technique, just like slide technique, is about timing. The timing is either good or it isn't.

Now, what valve/slide combination you choose can have a lot of impact on the shape of the phrase, and I always try to make the best choice for the shape of the phrase rather than what's easiest to make clean or what's convenient.

[hyperbolica]

Yeah, this is something I struggle with. For me, the big hurdle is just the quantity of air. I'm trying to approach playing 2 independent valves in the same way I handle lip slurs and natural breaks on tenor. It's a beautiful concept on tenor that enables you to play very musically, where the trombone is an aid rather than an impediment to clean articulations. I studied with John Swallow, who was a huge champion of natural slurs and natural breaks (and alternate positions). Even on tenor, we sometimes use the trigger just to get the natural break. How much better with 2 triggers?

The problem, at least for me, comes in the low register, getting the slurs to sound as nice as they do on tenor. Theoretically, bass bone playing should be a haven for legato, with all of those natural break and alternate position opportunities.

I'd love to see what's possible if John Swallow's teaching were applied rigorously to bass trombone.

[RustBeltBass]

I studied with John Swallow, who was a huge champion of natural slurs and natural breaks (and alternate positions).

I'd love to see what's possible if John Swallow's teaching were applied rigorously to bass trombone.

Oh hyperbolica, I could spam you with so many question on his playing and teaching, but you don’t want that because I’d counter every answer with more questions.
I never met him but the recordings I heard from him are incredible. I am sure you know this but for me this was very cool of a resource to have.

http://www.osborne-conant.org/John_Swallow.htm

Back to topic. I am not necessarily speaking about Legato. What I hoped to describe in my post is when I hear a player who is very obviously having good slide technique control...until he reaches a technically tricky low phrase that forces him or her to move the slide while having to apply a mix of open, one valve, other valve, absorb valves. What I sometimes hear then is that the musical line starts to suffer from the players focus on technically clean execution. I believe this may in some cases have something to do with how the triggers are applied.

Specifically, I wonder if THE WAY the trigger/s is/are being pushed/released may influence the sound and flow of the phrase.
I am not speaking about timing, good timing is a given.

For instance: A jerky, tensed slide movement, will have negative effect on a phrase, even if the slide arrives on the next note in time. It can be very audible to the listener.
I wonder if a jerky trigger movement in the low range can have a similar negative effect and if anyone has thoughts on that being a possible cause of problems for young bass trombonists and if this is addressed in any literature.

[hyperbolica]

There are people more knowledgeable about Swallow's techniques than me on this forum. I'm sure if you start another thread on that topic, there'd be a lot of participation. That was a great interview. I go back and watch that from time to time.

On your valve coordination thoughts, have you ever checked out Blair Bollinger?
He's very into the use of valves and tuning to make music easier to play. When the valve is part of the articulation, it helps things line up. Plus, I think a lot of indy players use their instruments like dependent setups. The use of 2nd valve by itself requires a whole new set of positions, and a lot more dancing around with the fingers (and the brain). I've seen a book that requires use of 2nd valve independent (might have been Bollinger's - You've Got Two Valves - Use Them). Part of Bollinger's schtick is different tuning for the second valve. G or flat G I think.

Swallow was about getting smoother slide motion by decreasing the distance moved and direction changes. That really helps.

I've never seen a book reference trigger technique specifically, as in pushing too hard, or trying to go too fast, or jerky motion on the triggers. I can say, though, that as a not-full-time bass player, practicing double trigger technique is definitely useful and in my case needed. I had something I was playing that ran back and forth around Bb, C, Db, D (on the staff)- open, 1V, 2V, 1&2V all somewhere between 1st and 2nd position instead of using just one valve or just 1st or 1&2nd valves. There are plenty of exercises that could address that kind of thing.

Have a look at Bollinger, looking through a Swallow lens. Might get you part way to where you want to go. Might be time to write your own book, too...

[WilliamLang]

Jim Markey uses some second valve by itself for low F a lot of the time. I would go watch his daily instagram practice series - it's been an inspiring resource.

[SwissTbone]

George Curran's warmup has been a good inspiration for me to work on valve technique.

You can download it here:
https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www ... MeT5qXO6oI