Being a Pro Bass Bone in Europe

[MaevenDeadcloud]

This post is pretty similar to one made a little while back about "making it" in the pro world. However, I live in Europe and plan on staying here, and there's quite a difference between the US and Europe. My question has less to do with how good you have to be, and more to do with having a career as a musician. I am fully aware that it will certainly be less profitable than other careers, but is it like the US where only 1% can have a decent salary? Or is it a bit better here? Any help would be appreciated.

[WilliamLang]

It's going to depend on where in Europe you want to live. If you haven't already, lessons and getting aligned with a good university program will be smart steps. The industry seems to be rather hard everywhere, but there are more orchestra and playing opportunities per person in Europe as a whole from what've I've seen and experienced so far.

[LeTromboniste]

Depends where you are and what style of playing you do. But overall there are fewer graduates and more positions available. Also typically less drastic difference in pay between the top lovel jobs and the ones below. Top orchestra players don't earn as much as in the US, but a lot more orchestras have full-time jobs and living wages. From what I understand, for orchestral playing the normal process in Germanic and Northern Europe, where there generally are more orchestras per capita (I include Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Denmark and Sweden) is to get an apprentice or "Akademie" position in a professional symphony or opera orchestra after your studies (or concurrently with post-graduate studies). Hard to be invited for an audition if you don't have at least one such apprentice position on your CV. Then there are multiple trombone positions open each year. Many orchestras also have more than three trombone players permanently hired, 5 is not uncommon, with two principals, one second, one bass and contra specialist, and a "Wechselposaune" who will play some services as 2nd, and some as bass trombonists, or 3rd trombone in repertoire with four parts, as needed. So there are really a lot more positions relative to the number of players. Also depending on where in Europe, often a lot more "pick up" work.

France is quite different with their conservatory system, and their style of trombone playing is also unique, so crossover between France and the rest of Europe is limited. Not so sure what it's like in southern Europe.

[Fidbone]

I lived in Germany for 17 years and was hardly ever without work, mostly freelance playing and teaching! However times have changed as with the rest of the artistic world. I've been back in the UK for the past 6 years and it feels super hard to make a good living these days.
I'm mainly a tenor player but have doubled for various contracts on Bass bone over the years.

[HermanGerman]

Dream on...unless you are well connect since years...or the best bass trombonist in the world.

[MaevenDeadcloud]

Depends where you are and what style of playing you do. But overall there are fewer graduates and more positions available. Also typically less drastic difference in pay between the top lovel jobs and the ones below. Top orchestra players don't earn as much as in the US, but a lot more orchestras have full-time jobs and living wages. From what I understand, for orchestral playing the normal process in Germanic and Northern Europe, where there generally are more orchestras per capita (I include Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Denmark and Sweden) is to get an apprentice or "Akademie" position in a professional symphony or opera orchestra after your studies (or concurrently with post-graduate studies). Hard to be invited for an audition if you don't have at least one such apprentice position on your CV. Then there are multiple trombone positions open each year. Many orchestras also have more than three trombone players permanently hired, 5 is not uncommon, with two principals, one second, one bass and contra specialist, and a "Wechselposaune" who will play some services as 2nd, and some as bass trombonists, or 3rd trombone in repertoire with four parts, as needed. So there are really a lot more positions relative to the number of players. Also depending on where in Europe, often a lot more "pick up" work.

France is quite different with their conservatory system, and their style of trombone playing is also unique, so crossover between France and the rest of Europe is limited. Not so sure what it's like in southern Europe.

Thanks a lot for your advice. I'm much more interested in playing in an orchestra than in a band, so do you have a few more details about pay? Just some general information would be useful. I currently live in the Netherlands, but later in life, I'm planning on either staying here or moving to Germany or a Scandinavian country.

[LeTromboniste]

Depends where you are and what style of playing you do. But overall there are fewer graduates and more positions available. Also typically less drastic difference in pay between the top lovel jobs and the ones below. Top orchestra players don't earn as much as in the US, but a lot more orchestras have full-time jobs and living wages. From what I understand, for orchestral playing the normal process in Germanic and Northern Europe, where there generally are more orchestras per capita (I include Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Denmark and Sweden) is to get an apprentice or "Akademie" position in a professional symphony or opera orchestra after your studies (or concurrently with post-graduate studies). Hard to be invited for an audition if you don't have at least one such apprentice position on your CV. Then there are multiple trombone positions open each year. Many orchestras also have more than three trombone players permanently hired, 5 is not uncommon, with two principals, one second, one bass and contra specialist, and a "Wechselposaune" who will play some services as 2nd, and some as bass trombonists, or 3rd trombone in repertoire with four parts, as needed. So there are really a lot more positions relative to the number of players. Also depending on where in Europe, often a lot more "pick up" work.

France is quite different with their conservatory system, and their style of trombone playing is also unique, so crossover between France and the rest of Europe is limited. Not so sure what it's like in southern Europe.

Thanks a lot for your advice. I'm much more interested in playing in an orchestra than in a band, so do you have a few more details about pay? Just some general information would be useful. I currently live in the Netherlands, but later in life, I'm planning on either staying here or moving to Germany or a Scandinavian country.

Some really good trombone teaching in the Netherlands. I have a couple friends who are managing to make a decent living as classical bass trombonists gigging, subbing in orchestras, teaching, etc. Not that many orchestra positions there I reckon, as it's a small country with not that many orchestras.

I'm not an orchestral player myself anymore, so I wouldn't want to give more specific advise about orchestral career beyond what I wrote in the previous post, that there is definitely more work in Europe than North America. My point of view in terms of orchestra jobs is as an outside (albeit close) observer.