Disrespect towards Furloughed Musicians

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BrianJohnston
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Disrespect towards Furloughed Musicians

Post by BrianJohnston » Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:52 pm

From the Musicians of the Fort Wayne Philharmonic:
https://www.facebook.com/MusiciansOfThe ... 121340853/
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Re: Disrespect towards Furloughed Musicians

Post by Posaunus » Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:28 pm

So sorry Brian. :(

Keep your positive attitude. :idea:

Hang in there! :roll:
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Re: Disrespect towards Furloughed Musicians

Post by JCBone » Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:32 am

I don't understand what happened.
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Re: Disrespect towards Furloughed Musicians

Post by BrianJohnston » Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:38 pm

JCBone wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:32 am
I don't understand what happened.
The Fort Wayne Philharmonic management furloughed the musicians. Then they hired outside artists to perform a private concert for the donors. We're talking about an organization where the CEO is making nearly 200k a year, and had more than $6million dollar surplus in donations, yet they've put the musicians out of work, and are finding cheaper/free ways to provide the city with music through the management.
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Re: Disrespect towards Furloughed Musicians

Post by FOSSIL » Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:50 pm

Disgusting.

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Re: Disrespect towards Furloughed Musicians

Post by Bach5G » Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:25 pm

“ We're talking about an organization where the CEO is making nearly 200k a year ...”


I guess we know where the donations are going.
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Re: Disrespect towards Furloughed Musicians

Post by JohnL » Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:38 pm

I suspect that the mindset of the orchestra management is that the "organization" is the board and the administrative staff; the musicians are just easily replaced hired help.

You get too many of the wrong people on an orchestra's board and this can happen anywhere. The only sure way to avoid it is the "orchestra collective" approach where the performers are the owners. They elect a board from among the membership and the board engages the administrative staff.
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Re: Disrespect towards Furloughed Musicians

Post by Doug Elliott » Mon Nov 02, 2020 2:16 pm

Just wondering... are there any orchestras where the performers are in charge and the administration is the hired help?
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Re: Disrespect towards Furloughed Musicians

Post by mahlertwo » Mon Nov 02, 2020 2:21 pm

Doug Elliott wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 2:16 pm
Just wondering... are there any orchestras where the performers are in charge and the administration is the hired help?
The NY Phil was founded to be a democratic organization in the way you're described. They voted on new members, the conductor, repertoire, all that stuff.
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Re: Disrespect towards Furloughed Musicians

Post by Bach5G » Mon Nov 02, 2020 2:32 pm

Doug Elliott wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 2:16 pm
Just wondering... are there any orchestras where the performers are in charge and the administration is the hired help?
Time for the workers to seize the means of production? Hmmmm... that reminds me of something...
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Re: Disrespect towards Furloughed Musicians

Post by BGuttman » Mon Nov 02, 2020 3:09 pm

Unless there is something in the Collective Bargaining Agreement that requires all players to be paid even if only some are used, this is really bad form. Even if hey wanted to put out a small ensemble they should have plenty of competent performers to do it within the ranks.
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Re: Disrespect towards Furloughed Musicians

Post by FOSSIL » Mon Nov 02, 2020 4:22 pm

Doug Elliott wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 2:16 pm
Just wondering... are there any orchestras where the performers are in charge and the administration is the hired help?
The self governing orchestras in London work like that.

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Re: Disrespect towards Furloughed Musicians

Post by mbarbier » Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:12 pm

Doug Elliott wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 2:16 pm
Just wondering... are there any orchestras where the performers are in charge and the administration is the hired help?
I believe the Louisiana Philharmonic is owned/run by musicians, unless they've changed their model. They reformed that way after the New Orleans Symphony went under (I think in the 90's)?
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Re: Disrespect towards Furloughed Musicians

Post by SimmonsTrombone » Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:28 am

I’ve lived in two small cities where the symphonies were formed by hard work by local musicians, but eventually the symphony boards decided to kick out all the local musicians and bring in players from large cities. The result was a large amount of the local arts money flowing out of town. Kids who grew up playing in local youth symphonies had nowhere to play after college graduation. Both symphonies lost local support. One no longer exists. I don’t know if the other does as there are no concerts due to COVID.
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Re: Disrespect towards Furloughed Musicians

Post by BrianJohnston » Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:51 am

mbarbier wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:12 pm
Doug Elliott wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 2:16 pm
Just wondering... are there any orchestras where the performers are in charge and the administration is the hired help?
I believe the Louisiana Philharmonic is owned/run by musicians, unless they've changed their model. They reformed that way after the New Orleans Symphony went under (I think in the 90's)?
Anyone please correct me if i'm wrong, but the "New Orleans Symphony" went under, under the Fort Wayne Philharmonic's current CEO.
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Re: Disrespect towards Furloughed Musicians

Post by WGWTR180 » Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:48 am

So lots of questions here but here's 1. How can this orchestra promote a concert of their musicians without hiring any of their musicians? Did I read the article incorrectly?
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Re: Disrespect towards Furloughed Musicians

Post by Gary » Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:48 am

This sucks, Brian. In my lifetime. I've seen the constant erosion of support for the arts in America. And it doesn't matter what musical idiom. Bad management and unwieldly overhead, and media theft of musicians' income by social media. I have lived all over the world and I think it boils down to cultural tastes and ethics. It's sad but I don't find an answer, just some work-arounds.

Best of luck to you and your colleagues. I've always said. "When one door closes, another one slams shut", LOL. But actually, each time a door has closed for me, it's put me in another direction that's always worked out. Resilience, optimism and being ready when an opportunity reveals itself.

I'm sure there will be those who disagree with me but, like I said having experienced a number of cultures, I think it's a reflection of American's values and I'm not sure that will change for the better. I really wish you all the best.
Last edited by Gary on Thu Nov 05, 2020 5:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Disrespect towards Furloughed Musicians

Post by Doug Elliott » Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:37 am

I thought the ad made it clear who they were presenting. Without mentioning who they weren't presenting.

I have seen other ads for orchestras (management) presenting concerts of (or featuring) internationally known stars who are obviously not members of the particular orchestra.

Any orchestra right now ought to be supporting and hiring their own members... But how different is this situation from, let's say, the NYP hiring Brantford Marsalis for a concert this month? It was cancelled, but probably only because the whole season was cancelled.

The management and donors ought to be supporting their orchestra members, but it's also fairly common to bring in a national or international act as an audience draw for fundraising. When does that cross the line?

The legitimate complaint is that the the orchestra gets nothing while the management continues to draw their salary. I'm just trying to look at the whole picture.

Edit:. I just saw the ad again - North Carolina Symphony presenting Branford this Saturday. OK, there's also a string quartet on the program. I'm just wondering - is that really so much different?
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Re: Disrespect towards Furloughed Musicians

Post by GabrielRice » Wed Nov 04, 2020 11:09 am

mbarbier wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:12 pm
Doug Elliott wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 2:16 pm
Just wondering... are there any orchestras where the performers are in charge and the administration is the hired help?
I believe the Louisiana Philharmonic is owned/run by musicians, unless they've changed their model. They reformed that way after the New Orleans Symphony went under (I think in the 90's)?
The Louisiana Phil is a co-operative, and I know of a per-service orchestra in Boston that also technically structured this way, but it's not a model that works as well as we tend to think it should.

And as non-profits, neither is technically owned by anybody.
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Re: Disrespect towards Furloughed Musicians

Post by JCBone » Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:10 pm

mahlertwo wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 2:21 pm
Doug Elliott wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 2:16 pm
Just wondering... are there any orchestras where the performers are in charge and the administration is the hired help?
The NY Phil was founded to be a democratic organization in the way you're described. They voted on new members, the conductor, repertoire, all that stuff.
same with the berlin phil
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