TromboneChat

So I found out recently that there is a note called "H" used by some in German speaking areas.

I find it very useful in sharp keys.  Especially in H Dur.

But I don't plan it -- I play it.  Comes between C and Bb.

You mean my tuning note? 

Quote from: Posaunus on Feb 07, 2017, 05:49PMYou mean my tuning note? 

Oh, you have a High Pitch trombone?

This is taken from a Wiki article in German, translated by Google and tweaked a bit by me. I hope the special characters will still look right.

"In the Middle Ages, the first seven letters of the alphabet were sufficient to characterize the tone inventory used. At the latest in the eleventh century, Guido of Arezzo established a cleavage of the tone B in a higher ( b durum ) and a deeper variant ( b molle ), characterized by an angular ♮ ( b squaerum ) and round ♭ ( b rotundum ) shape of the letter b. From the b quadratum today's resolution sign and the cross emerged, from the b rotundum the displacement sign b .

Because of the optical similarity of the b squareum with the letter h and the subsequent use of the printing type h for the b squareum, in the 16th century in Germany, Scandinavia, and the Westslaw region the designation H for the 7th stage of the basic scale was used ( which since Zarlino (1571) commonly started with C )."

I certainly can plan an H.

I can plan an H, but what's the scale?

1" = 10'?
1" = 20'?
1" = 30'?
WWHWHWH ?

When I was in college taking Descriptive Geometry our prof used to tell us to plot an "H View".  We couldn't figure out what he was talking about.  He was Japanese, and with his accent, his "H View" was "Edge View".  Took us nearly to the end of the school year to figure that out.

I voted "perhaps" because it was there.

I can plan an H, and it's usually followed by owever.

Quote from: BGuttman on Feb 07, 2017, 07:34PMWhen I was in college taking Descriptive Geometry our prof used to tell us to plot an "H View".  We couldn't figure out what he was talking about.  He was Japanese, and with his accent, his "H View" was "Edge View".  Took us nearly to the end of the school year to figure that out.

Geez, that reminds me of a geometry class I tried to take where the teacher (Chinese but from a southeast Asian country) kept going on about "the ahk" and "the ox".

Total chaos. The teacher spent the whole class facing the board as if we weren't there and the teen-somethings were all talking as if there was no teacher there.

How else would we play shostakovich's signature (D, Es, C, H)?
  b


I had to get used to this working in Germany. It can get a little odd when you have international parts that have been corrected the "b" above a note and you have to work out if they mean "Bb" or "B natural/ H".

The German system uses "s" to signify flat and "is" to signify sharp.
C# is cis (spoken siss)
Eb is es (ess)
F## is fisis (fississ)
Ab is as (yep..)
Bb is however b and B is H.
B#? his (hiss)
Bbb was an argument we had at work the other day. My colleagues couldnt agree whether to call it Beses or Heses. Technically you could probably also say Bes but thag wiuld just confuse every one.

I think we ended up agreeing to call it beses amongst ourselves. There probably is a rule but we're trombonists, not musicologists.

<Edit: Fixed note>

If there is any one system I dislike and refuse to use, It's the European system that switched out B-natural for H.

HALLO!

H comes AFTER G!!! 

I subbed for a Ukranian pianist once on a cruise ship. He had scribbled through all the chords with a B root and wrote H above them.

H∆7#11. - actually, it was a 7 with a slash through it, so i kept playing dominant chords and wincing (what the %#$%, that's not right!) and played a good deal of that gig by ear the first couple of days until I figured it out. (The 7 with a slash through it means major 7 for some freaking reason in the same part of the world where H is used.)

seriously.

All the cues for cuts and repeats were in cyrillic as well. Fortunately there were a few people on board who could help me translate.

Probably the only thing I like about using H is that it allowed Johann Sebastian Bach to spell his name in music (a famous fugue he wrote).  Otherwise I find it simply annoying.

h makes a lot of sense. Just think of it as a neutral symbol (that's why it is called h).

I guess we're fortunate they didn't continue that practice as they discovered more sharps and flats or we'd have things like a sonata in L major.

Quote from: robcat2075 on Feb 09, 2017, 06:14PMI guess we're fortunate they didn't continue that practice as they discovered more sharps and flats or we'd have things like a sonata in L major.

I wouldn't mind if they had discovered fewer sharps.

Quote from: tbathras on Feb 09, 2017, 06:28PMI wouldn't mind if they had discovered fewer sharps.

And the alto saxophonists and Db piccolo players would prefer fewer flats...

Quote from: BGuttman on Feb 09, 2017, 06:31PMAnd the alto saxophonists and Db piccolo players would prefer fewer flats...

Pretty sure they don't count 

Quote from: tbathras on Feb 09, 2017, 06:45PMPretty sure they don't count 

No, they don't.  Always coming in early

Quote from: Dombat on Feb 07, 2017, 11:48PMHow else would we play shostakovich's signature (D, Es, C, H)?
  b


I had to get used to this working in Germany. It can get a little odd when you have international parts that have been corrected the "b" above a note and you have to work out if they mean "Bb" or "B natural/ H".

The German system uses "s" to signify flat and "is" to signify sharp.
C# is cis (spoken siss)
Eb is es (ess)
F## is fisis (fississ)
Ab is as (yep..)
Bb is however b and B is H.
B#? his (hiss)
Bbb was an argument we had at work the other day. My colleagues couldnt agree whether to call it Beses or Heses. Technically you could probably also say Bes but thag wiuld just confuse every one.

I think we ended up agreeing to call it beses amongst ourselves. There probably is a rule but we're trombonists, not musicologists.

<Edit: Fixed note>

I say, when in Rome . . .



The German letter H is pronounced "ha".

I haven't yet located the plural form of "ha".

( Could it be "haen", "haer", or "hanner" ? )

But if I were to choose to use H, 
 
I would go with the correct German pluralization of Ha ! 

Or you could all be scamps, and refer to it as "Funny Music". 
 
(Ha, ha, ha, ha ! Oh,  I just can't stop laughing ! )

Quote from: Posaunus on Feb 07, 2017, 05:49PMYou mean my tuning note? 

Did you have to file down your tuning slide quite a bit in order to be able to say that ?

Quote from: davdud101 on Feb 09, 2017, 11:04AMIf there is any one system I dislike and refuse to use, It's the European system that switched out B-natural for H.

HALLO!

H comes AFTER G!!! 

Perhaps they switched out H♭ for B !

Quote from: davdud101 on Feb 09, 2017, 11:04AMIf there is any one system I dislike and refuse to use, It's the European system that switched out B-natural for H.

My choice is undoubtedly the British/Australian system of naming note lengths. It boggles my mind how such a woefully antiquated system hasn't been left in the past where it belongs. Which makes more sense, "hemidemisemiquaver" or "64th note"? I'll take "reasonable fractions that anyone can understand" for $200, Alex.

Quote from: Driving Park on Apr 10, 2017, 04:10PMMy choice is undoubtedly the British/Australian system of naming note lengths. It boggles my mind how such a woefully antiquated system hasn't been left in the past where it belongs. Which makes more sense, "hemidemisemiquaver" or "64th note"? I'll take "reasonable fractions that anyone can understand" for $200, Alex.

Back when I was a bandleader on cruise ships I ran into this issue with a british pianist who had to ask me to clarify what an 1/8th note was after some instruction I gave. That band had people from all over the world in it and he was the only one who didn't know what an 1/8th note was (i still think he was just putting me on.) I hate the word "crotchet" because of him.

Since Berklee eliminated the Bb (B on German music), maybe we can replace it with "Hes" (sounds like a brand of Gasoline in the Northeast US).

Quote from: oslide on Feb 07, 2017, 06:13PMThis is taken from a Wiki article in German, translated by Google and tweaked a bit by me. I hope the special characters will still look right.

"In the Middle Ages, the first seven letters of the alphabet were sufficient to characterize the tone inventory used. At the latest in the eleventh century, Guido of Arezzo established a cleavage of the tone B in a higher ( b durum ) and a deeper variant ( b molle ), characterized by an angular ♮ ( b squaerum ) and round ♭ ( b rotundum ) shape of the letter b. From the b quadratum today's resolution sign and the cross emerged, from the b rotundum the displacement sign b .

Because of the optical similarity of the b squareum with the letter h and the subsequent use of the printing type h for the b squareum, in the 16th century in Germany, Scandinavia, and the Westslaw region the designation H for the 7th stage of the basic scale was used ( which since Zarlino (1571) commonly started with C )."

And now lets look at some German Black Letter fonts.

The first word on each line is   "Schristbeispiel".


Now in this first word,  consider letter no. 3, an "h", and letter no. 8, a "b".

Do really think you could differentiate between the two if the printing press was not printing cleanly ?

The fourth line down,  Schristbeispiel Deutsche Anzeigenschrist, is the one
I've seen the most often in musty old textbooks.

With this one, a capital "A" looks like a stylized capital "U",
and a capital "D" and a capital "O" look oh so very similar !

Now the "durum", "molle", "squaerum", and "rotundum" versions of "b" will probably take me quite a while longer to hunt down.

Quote from: Lou Natunze on Apr 13, 2017, 10:28PMThe first word on each line is   "Schristbeispiel".

If you look closely it's actually "Schriftbeispiel", i.e. "font example".

The "f" and "s" of those fonts were very similar, both looking like a "∫", but the "f" having a slash, and the "s" not.

May look terribly confusing, but when you're used to it it's not a problem.

I have been told that I sound like H on many occasions.

Quote from: MikeBMiller on Apr 14, 2017, 07:40AMI have been told that I sound like H on many occasions.

Gee, that's good.  People tell me I sound like S

Quote from: MikeBMiller on Apr 14, 2017, 07:40AMI have been told that I sound like H on many occasions.

Gee, that's good.  People tell me I sound like S