Home Recording Studio Discussion

ttf_harrison.t.reed
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Home Recording Studio Discussion

Post by ttf_harrison.t.reed » Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:17 am

Hey all. I have the opportunity to set up a small recording studio when I move in a few months, setting it up in a spare bedroom. I was thinking of joining a home recording forum, but I figured there might be some savvy cats on here (Mike Lake comes to mind) who might have some ideas and answers.

I am sure I am not the only one who has dreamed of laying down some tracks at home, so I was hoping this thread could act as a general discussion of home recording.

First off, what my goals are for my studio -- I hope to start recording some music for trombone and piano, both classic pieces that we all know and love as well as original pieces I've composed. I also want a space that's set up and ready to go so I can create instructional videos using the same audio setup. I've already partially achieved this at work, but set up and tear down makes it too time consuming and nearly impossible to get a consistent sound (since the equipment is sensitive to how it's set up).

The gear I'm using is a two input Focusrite audio interface, a middle of the road large condenser mic, FL Studio's DAW, Piano in Blue v2 piano sound library controlled by midi, and Altverb as the main reverb plugin, which puts the mono source trombone recording at a specified place in a digital hall, and outputs beautiful stereo sound with reverb. Also, I use Sennheiser open back monitors while recording so that I can play normally. Closed back and in ear monitors make it impossible to play. Bleed isn't too much of an issue when revording brass.

This setup is actually pretty fantastic. A high end piano sound library like Piano in Blue, when played  by a friend on a midi keyboard, sounds better than any real life piano that I have access to, and since you can try out different mic placements and levels after the actual performance, it also is recorded better than anything I could do. What's more, the midi file that controls the library can be edited after the fact as well, so you can create a recording of a performance that never really happened. I could even remove the pianist altogether by exporting the midi from sibelius and humanizing it in FL Studio. Then it's just a matter of recording with a click track to the piano file.

Some things that I've been wondering about though:

1. Pianos are machines. They are comparatively easy to make a sound library out of than, say, a brass instrument. The day I can make an entire orchestra out of sound libraries is not here yet. However, I've looked into libraries like Vienna Instruments Solo Strings I, and I'll be damned if those strings don't sound like people are playing them. It's obvious that you need a lot of midi controllers to make a line sound real, but apparently lots of movie and TV music is "recorded" by just using these sound libraries. Does anyone on the forum have any insight to how to best use these libraries in music production? What else is out there besides Vienna Instruments  (it's prohibitively expensive!)?

2. If I lay down a couple of tracks that I like and it's worth pursuing further, and decide to put together an album for fun, what should I record? I was thinking of doing something similar to the audition CD Carl Lenthe did, with pieces that are commonly played by trombonists in school but just are not recorded anywhere. Barat's Andante & Allegro and the Nesterov Concerto come to mind.

3. Are there any big things I'm missing for equipment? The tapes I made with this setup for auditions in the past all sounded professional, but I bet I'm missing something big
ttf_ddickerson
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Home Recording Studio Discussion

Post by ttf_ddickerson » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:10 am

Zac should definitely jump in and contribute!

I've got a simple setup, maybe too simple, but I don't dabble with sound libraries, so I can't be of much help.

I've got a Korg SP-100 stage piano, a Heil PR-40 dynamic mic, and a Sony music video camera plugged into a Yamaha mixer, that is patched into the computer through the line input. Like I said, very simple.

I look forward though to learning a lot on this thread. Thanks for starting it.
ttf_Driswood
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Post by ttf_Driswood » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:33 am

Quote from: ddickerson on Sep 20, 2017, 08:10AMI look forward though to learning a lot on this thread. Thanks for starting it.

Me too!

Jerry Walker
ttf_M.R.Tenor
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Home Recording Studio Discussion

Post by ttf_M.R.Tenor » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:38 am

If you haven't already, check out Mike's various youtube videos. He covers mic technique and basic signal processing for the stuff he does. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4eBkB ... OIr8lkU44A
It's important to know what sound you want to achieve before you start, and keep the fiddling to a minimum.

I'm not exactly a professional, but I do have my own home studio, and have worked with numerous ska bands, jazz combos, and audition recordings in a local studio that deals mainly with music students in the area. I've done live sound and recording for a couple venues, and church bands.

For recording, mic placement is the single most important thing in determining the sound that you get. If you like the articulation and detail of the sound with the mic close up, then you won't really have too much effect from the room, but if you have the mic further back, and you're going to be adding digital reverb after the fact, you don't want to throw the listener off with a mismatch between the recorded room sound and the reverb room sound. Good bass traps and broadband absorbers will help. This is my preferred budget source. http://www.foambymail.com/acoustical-foam-products.html Though you can get away with couch cushions in the corners and moviing blankets draped over doors if you want a real dead space for the mic. Very narrow band EQ cuts can get rid of room resonances, as well as keeping the mic away from reflective surfaces.

Finding a good mic placement by yourself is more trial and error, but usually we have the performer play from a corner of the room, and then we'll walk the mic around the room with someone listening until we hear what we want.

For monitoring while playing, I usually end up using a set of wireless IEMs with only the right ear in.

I'm not familiar with the Vienna libraries, but with reasonable keys skills and a bit of time, you can create very passable section performances by yourself with just a basic set of string sounds. As long as you have a good string tone and know how a string section would approach the parts, you can get great results.

You record multiple takes of each orchestra part so you can get individual performances by "multiple" players in the section, and then duplicate and layer them with slightly different EQ. It creates a more genuine chorus/section effect, and really adds weight and depth to the sounds. You can touch up with some automation and fast compression/expansion to adjust the articulations. Altiverb should allow you to place these "different performers" practically in different seats in the hall to build the orchestra section.

This is the same technique that engineers use for horn sections, group vocals, and drum and guitar sounds that need to be larger.

You should record whatever you're passionate about. Don't record something just because it's a standard when you could be recording something that's never been done before.

The Focusrite interface and preamps are really good for the money, and if you're happy with your mic, or you've worked out an EQ to compensate for its qualities, then you should be set. It's not necessary, but when you have an itch to upgrade something, I recommend adding a proper tube preamp with impedance matching as a worthwhile investment, not the cheap starved plate pocket boxes, an actual rack mount high voltage job. Don't use cheap XLR cables, or the mic will be lifeless before it even gets to the preamp.

Gear isn't nearly as important as skills. A good engineer would have no problem getting a fantastic recording in your home studio, and a $12,000 signal chain in your bedroom won't make your recordings sound great if you don't know what you're doing.
ttf_harrison.t.reed
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Home Recording Studio Discussion

Post by ttf_harrison.t.reed » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:49 am

Yes, I agree about mic placement, and I've found that mic type greatly effects where you need to place the mic.

Also, you nailed it with Altverb. Being able to physically place the instrument and recorded audio within the digital space is crazy!

For my purposes, since I'm using a digital room (small chapel really) in post production, I don't want too much of the real world room in the audio. I've found that the mic sounds best if it's parallel  with the floor (for a condenser, that means straight up and down) placed on a boom stand facing towards the bell, and two meters in front and half a meter above the bell.

I think that the room itself matters almost more than mic placement. For example, an isolation Wenger module sounds good for this kind of placement until you start playing on the bottom line of the bass clef. No amount of EQ can save that. I'll be putting up some bass traps and deflectors on the corners and walls of my room for sure.

For what to record, I do want to record pieces that I'm passionate about, but I also think it's a shame that many of the pieces that high schoolers play for district or all state auditions, and then use on college entrance auditions after they do well in all state, have either not been recorded or only have one recording by Carl Lenthe. No, it's not a macho thing to record this music, and some of the pieces on high school district/all state lists aren't worth recording, but a lot of them are perfectly fine. Plus it'd be a great first project while I arrange other tunes.
ttf_Geezerhorn
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Home Recording Studio Discussion

Post by ttf_Geezerhorn » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:03 am

Quote from: M.R.Tenor on Sep 20, 2017, 10:38AMIf you haven't already, check out Mike's various youtube videos. He covers mic technique and basic signal processing for the stuff he does. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4eBkB ... OIr8lkU44A
It's important to know what sound you want to achieve before you start, and keep the fiddling to a minimum.

I'm not exactly a professional, but I do have my own home studio, and have worked with numerous ska bands, jazz combos, and audition recordings in a local studio that deals mainly with music students in the area. I've done live sound and recording for a couple venues, and church bands.

For recording, mic placement is the single most important thing in determining the sound that you get. If you like the articulation and detail of the sound with the mic close up, then you won't really have too much effect from the room, but if you have the mic further back, and you're going to be adding digital reverb after the fact, you don't want to throw the listener off with a mismatch between the recorded room sound and the reverb room sound. Good bass traps and broadband absorbers will help. This is my preferred budget source. http://www.foambymail.com/acoustical-foam-products.html Though you can get away with couch cushions in the corners and moviing blankets draped over doors if you want a real dead space for the mic. Very narrow band EQ cuts can get rid of room resonances, as well as keeping the mic away from reflective surfaces.

Finding a good mic placement by yourself is more trial and error, but usually we have the performer play from a corner of the room, and then we'll walk the mic around the room with someone listening until we hear what we want.

For monitoring while playing, I usually end up using a set of wireless IEMs with only the right ear in.

I'm not familiar with the Vienna libraries, but with reasonable keys skills and a bit of time, you can create very passable section performances by yourself with just a basic set of string sounds. As long as you have a good string tone and know how a string section would approach the parts, you can get great results.

You record multiple takes of each orchestra part so you can get individual performances by "multiple" players in the section, and then duplicate and layer them with slightly different EQ. It creates a more genuine chorus/section effect, and really adds weight and depth to the sounds. You can touch up with some automation and fast compression/expansion to adjust the articulations. Altiverb should allow you to place these "different performers" practically in different seats in the hall to build the orchestra section.

This is the same technique that engineers use for horn sections, group vocals, and drum and guitar sounds that need to be larger.

You should record whatever you're passionate about. Don't record something just because it's a standard when you could be recording something that's never been done before.

The Focusrite interface and preamps are really good for the money, and if you're happy with your mic, or you've worked out an EQ to compensate for its qualities, then you should be set. It's not necessary, but when you have an itch to upgrade something, I recommend adding a proper tube preamp with impedance matching as a worthwhile investment, not the cheap starved plate pocket boxes, an actual rack mount high voltage job. Don't use cheap XLR cables, or the mic will be lifeless before it even gets to the preamp.

Gear isn't nearly as important as skills. A good engineer would have no problem getting a fantastic recording in your home studio, and a $12,000 signal chain in your bedroom won't make your recordings sound great if you don't know what you're doing.

You mentioned using better quality cables. Why? Isn't wire, wire and all they are supposed to do is act as conductors? Is there some wire that is better than others as far as getting a more "lively" sound to the preamp?   Image

You aren't advocating platinum wire with silver connectors are you? $8-16K for a home recording studio?

...Geezer
ttf_harrison.t.reed
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Post by ttf_harrison.t.reed » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:17 am

Probably the quality and coating of the connection points is what matters most. The gold plated stuff gives you higher fidelity.
ttf_Geezerhorn
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Post by ttf_Geezerhorn » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:23 am

Quote from: harrison.t.reed on Sep 20, 2017, 11:17AMProbably the quality and coating of the connection points is what matters most. The gold plated stuff gives you higher fidelity.

Have you bought into that "Monster Wire" meme the salesmen want us to buy for our home entertainment centers? That's probably just to boost their commissions. I have heard a set-up wired both ways; cheap vs "Monster Wire". I can't hear a difference. Sorry, but I must question that. I mean, if we are talking nth degree and money is no object...

That rant made, yeah - gold connectors - why not. Affordable for most.

...Geezer
ttf_ddickerson
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Post by ttf_ddickerson » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:45 am

Quote from: Geezerhorn on Sep 20, 2017, 11:23AMHave you bought into that "Monster Wire" meme the salesmen want us to buy for our home entertainment centers? That's probably just to boost their commissions. I have heard a set-up wired both ways; cheap vs "Monster Wire". I can't hear a difference. Sorry, but I must question that. I mean, if we are talking nth degree and money is no object...

That rant made, yeah - gold connectors - why not. Affordable for most.

...Geezer

Audio signals are low voltage signals to begin with. So, it doesn't take too much noise to become noticeable.



So, cheap XLRs can suffer from:
Cheap materials like thin copper wire, not efficient shielding, cheap XLR connectors, bad soldering joints(if it is even soldered), and bad connections in the mating of the XLR connectors.

You mentioned Monster Cables, which are usually used for HDMI cables for HD video. Signals can be affected if the bandwidth of the cable isn't sufficient for the bandwidth required for HD video.




 
ttf_Bimmerman
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Post by ttf_Bimmerman » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:05 pm

Quote from: ddickerson on Sep 20, 2017, 11:45AMAudio signals are low voltage signals to begin with. So, it doesn't take too much noise to become noticeable.

~snip~

Signals can be affected if the bandwidth of the cable isn't sufficient for the bandwidth required for HD video.
Yup, a good analogy is current vs wire gauge. Too small of a wire gauge means you can't pass enough current (or, it'll work but heat up and you risk fires). Too large of a wire gauge, and you're throwing money away, but not too many other detriments IME.

I've bought a large amount of wire and cabling that looks like it is large diameter but it really is just a ton of insulation on a dinky little wire. Cheap wire from amazon is notorious for being many gauges smaller than the measured OD would normally indicate.


ttf_Geezerhorn
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Post by ttf_Geezerhorn » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:44 pm

What is recommended and what is a good source for a better grade XLR cable?

...Geezer
ttf_ddickerson
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Post by ttf_ddickerson » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:20 pm

Quote from: Geezerhorn on Sep 20, 2017, 12:44PMWhat is recommended and what is a good source for a better grade XLR cable?

...Geezer

If you don't hear any problems with your current setup, I wouldn't sweat it.
ttf_Geezerhorn
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Post by ttf_Geezerhorn » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:37 pm

Lol. I am never completely happy with the quality of my home recordings. I am always looking for a better way. I just started recording my solo track in stereo and that has helped. Of course, I learned a long time ago that the best & fastest way to improve a home recording is to play better!  Image

So you guys got me to thinking that perhaps all cables are not created equal. But getting "better" cables to the interface is only half of it. What good would that do if the cable going to my processor sucks. So I guess it would also effect sound quality?

...Geezer
ttf_bbocaner
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Post by ttf_bbocaner » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:50 pm

the most important thing for you is going to be room treatment.
ttf_M.R.Tenor
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Post by ttf_M.R.Tenor » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:54 pm

Quote from: Geezerhorn on Sep 20, 2017, 11:03AMYou mentioned using better quality cables. Why? Isn't wire, wire and all they are supposed to do is act as conductors? Is there some wire that is better than others as far as getting a more "lively" sound to the preamp?   Image

You aren't advocating platinum wire with silver connectors are you? $8-16K for a home recording studio?

...Geezer

No actually platinum wire and silver connectors would be a terrible idea. Gold plating is used for corrosion resistance, and the softness ensures a stable ground connection. Silver wire and gold plated platinum connectors might not be too bad though...

I was speaking about how the capacitance mostly, but also the reactance, and therefore the impedance of the cabling can affect the signal even in the short 10 meter runs. These are things that the cheaper cable manufacturers don't care about because their consumers also don't care. But there is a difference in high end detail at the end of the cable with cheap ones compared to the trusted stuff and I've heard it myself. We're dealing with very small voltages in the waveform that you're carrying. Just adding more shielding to keep ambient EMI out ends up affecting the frequency response, and when you're talking about condenser mics, you've essentially created a powered antenna. It's really important that the capsule bias voltage remains rock steady despite the outside noise so the mic can work as intended. Mono XLR, and TRS is used as a balanced connector, meaning it's a differential pair and ideally any noise picked up by the cable will be cancelled out at the preamp, but the voltage supply to the mic will still be affected by the noise. Unless your microphone cost less than your cable, Image there's usually enough filtering in the circuit board of the mic itself to deal with that. Some cabling rated for AES and digital mics has to be able to preserve proper limits on fall and rise times of the signal down to tens of nanoseconds, as well as phase shift issues.

There's a reason why the Mogami cables cost more than the amazon stuff, and it's not just the name. There's the lifetime warranty, and there's all the engineering that went into it. You'll see high end mic companies like Neumann actually list distances in cabling that the tube mic power supply, and the transformerless mics can drive, without significant loss or distortion of the signal.

Quad cables aren't necessary, but they do halve the chance of getting a loose connection. I don't recommend Monster Cable the brand just due to what I've heard about their business practices, but most of their products are quite good quality.
ttf_M.R.Tenor
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Post by ttf_M.R.Tenor » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:10 pm

Quote from: Geezerhorn on Sep 20, 2017, 02:37PMSo you guys got me to thinking that perhaps all cables are not created equal. But getting "better" cables to the interface is only half of it. What good would that do if the cable going to my processor sucks. So I guess it would also effect sound quality?

USB, Firewire, Thunderbolt and most digital connections are all made such that there's no possible way the signal can be affected, if the connection is working. It'll just send the data again if it gets garbled, though this could mean increased latency or the connection cutting in and out if you're near the max bandwidth. You can get either active repeaters to extend the cabling or ethernet/optical converters if you're having issues.
http://www.yourcablestore.com/USB-Cable ... _42-1.html


The only issue might be getting enough power to the interface if you bought a 30 ft USB cable for $.99. And maybe picking up noise on the power conductor, but again there should be sufficient filtering and regulation in the interface that this shouldn't be any issue.
ttf_Geezerhorn
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Post by ttf_Geezerhorn » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:21 pm

Very, very cool guys!

 Image

I know what my Christmas present is going to be; better cables! Bookmarked! Lol

...Geezer
ttf_BiggieSmalls
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Post by ttf_BiggieSmalls » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:58 pm

Quote from: Geezerhorn on Sep 20, 2017, 12:44PMWhat is recommended and what is a good source for a better grade XLR cable?

...Geezer

Mogami is one possibility: http://www.mogamicable.com
ttf_Geezerhorn
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Post by ttf_Geezerhorn » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:11 pm

Yep. That's what I'm looking at and I should rearrange to keep the cables as short as possible. If it's a weak point in my home recording studio, it is easily correctable for a little bit of money, instead of a lot of money.

...Geezer
ttf_dougm
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Post by ttf_dougm » Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:40 pm

Quote from: Geezerhorn on Sep 20, 2017, 12:44PMWhat is recommended and what is a good source for a better grade XLR cable?

...Geezer

Audiopile sells some fairly high quality mic cable for not much money.  http://www.audiopile.net/pro-quad-microphone-cables

They sell three different "levels" of mic cable, and I have all three in my recording and sound reinforcement rigs. 

Want Starquad cable with some high end XLRs?  Redco can custom make them for a fair price.  https://www.redco.com/

Doug
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Post by ttf_Pre59 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:02 am

Quote from: Geezerhorn on Sep 20, 2017, 06:11PMYep. That's what I'm looking at and I should rearrange to keep the cables as short as possible. If it's a weak point in my home recording studio, it is easily correctable for a little bit of money, instead of a lot of money.

...Geezer

Good quality cabling and other accessories are available at low prices like never before. Most lower end pro cable is oxygen free with XLR's with decent strain relief. I've never had a mic lead go bad on me, and I used to own over 20 condensers with over 150 metres of cable. Whereas a woman that I work with buys the cheapest that she can find and they're always going wrong. The middle way grasshopper..

A couple of books about mic positioning could be handy as well, in particular articles about Early Reflections (E/R) and the effect of "Boundaries". All other things being equal, understanding the effect that the room can have on a recording and being able to predict an outcome, is the best way to maximise your investment.


ttf_Geezerhorn
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Post by ttf_Geezerhorn » Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:25 am

Alrighty then, we've got cables knocked down cold!   Image

I think we all have our fav mics. Mine is an EV RE20. But an SM57 or SM58 should be fine as well, unless you are old-school and prefer a vintage ribbon.

Now, what do we use to capture the wave? I'm using the best Dell desktop I could get at the time I bought it - about three years ago.

...Geezer
ttf_Pre59
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Post by ttf_Pre59 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:12 am

Quote from: Geezerhorn on Sep 21, 2017, 04:25AM
I think we all have our fav mics. Mine is an EV RE20. But an SM57 or SM58 should be fine as well, unless you are old-school and prefer a vintage ribbon.

...Geezer

I'd go for a Rode M3, because it has filtering options that make it far more flexible than the SM options.

Heavy duty metal body

Internal capsule shock mount

High level of RF rejection

On-mic selectable high pass filter @ 80Hz-12dB/Oct (-10 and -20dB PAD)

Heat-treated high-strength mesh head

Battery status indicator

9V Battery Power, 24 or 48V Phantom Power

Includes wind shield, mic clip and zip pouch

10 year extended warranty when you register your microphone

You could buy one, and another one later to make a versatile stereo pair.

Also the big presence peak that most stage mics have is smoothed down to 2 smaller ones.

I've got a couple of guest nights come up soon so I will be getting one; incidentally I do own an use a SM 58, but I don't care for it much...

ttf_Geezerhorn
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Post by ttf_Geezerhorn » Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:20 am

Quote from: Pre59 on Sep 21, 2017, 05:12AMI'd go for a Rode M3, because it has filtering options that make it far more flexible than the SM options.

Heavy duty metal body

Internal capsule shock mount

High level of RF rejection

On-mic selectable high pass filter @ 80Hz-12dB/Oct (-10 and -20dB PAD)

Heat-treated high-strength mesh head

Battery status indicator

9V Battery Power, 24 or 48V Phantom Power

Includes wind shield, mic clip and zip pouch

10 year extended warranty when you register your microphone

You could buy one, and another one later to make a versatile stereo pair.

Also the big presence peak that most stage mics have is smoothed down to 2 smaller ones.

I've got a couple of guest nights come up soon so I will be getting one; incidentally I do own an use a SM 58, but I don't care for it much...


I wouldn't use the high pass filter. I don't like to use any filters, except a little reverb. Number 1 rule of home recording is to keep it simple.

I have seen posts on this Forum raving about the SM57 and I challenged them b/c I didn't want to see the argument, "Well, they MUST be good mics b/c everybody is using them". I had one 3 years ago and didn't like it. In retrospect, I think it was me, however. I bought another one a month ago and it works nicely. I kinda like it with my EV RE20 for a stereo track. Using two different mics is like getting a second opinion. Lol

There appears to be something about recording in stereo. It seems to connect better with the stereo backing track when I mix them down and gives my solo more presence.

...Geezer
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Post by ttf_anonymous » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:28 am

Quote from: bbocaner on Sep 20, 2017, 02:50PMthe most important thing for you is going to be room treatment.

Quoting this for it's importance.
ttf_harrison.t.reed
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Post by ttf_harrison.t.reed » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:19 am

I think you're right. And the importance seems to be:

Bass traps in the places where walls and floors meet

wall accoustic panels

wall accoustic deflectors
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Post by ttf_ddickerson » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:41 am

Another physical factor is parallel walls which most rooms in houses have. Most rooms in homes have rectangle shaped rooms. I'm assuming that most of use spare bedrooms for our home studio.

You could alter at least two walls with partitions or something to offset the facing walls that are parallel. Hopefully finding a solution without too much expense. If you are going to put accoustic panels on a wall, build a temporary 2x4 frame, to install the accoustic panels, to offset it from the parallel position. Do this to two walls, and you will do away with the parallels.
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Post by ttf_mwpfoot » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:52 am

Quote from: Geezerhorn on Sep 21, 2017, 05:20AMI have seen posts on this Forum raving about the SM57 and I challenged them b/c I didn't want to see the argument, "Well, they MUST be good mics b/c everybody is using them".
The SM57 is a workhorse stage mic but there are many better options for studio recording. Powering a horn section through the monitors and mains is a much different task than accurately recording for playback.

Virtually any large diaphragm dynamic mic would provide better trombone results in the studio. There are a lot of old radio designs being resurrected as podcasting and voice-over mics that also work great for general use in the studio, on vocals, horns, kicks, room. Shure SM7, your EV RE20, variants of these, others. Just steer clear of kick-drum specific mics in this space, they have a huge scoop in the middle right where we would probably want a little boost.

 Image
ttf_M.R.Tenor
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Post by ttf_M.R.Tenor » Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:17 pm

Quote from: ddickerson on Sep 21, 2017, 11:41AMIf you are going to put accoustic panels on a wall, build a temporary 2x4 frame, to install the accoustic panels, to offset it from the parallel position. Do this to two walls, and you will do away with the parallels.
This is good.

Acoustic traps in the corners where the walls and ceiling meet will have the most noticeable effect on getting the room to sound better.

After that, I'd recommend you build a couple 1 1/2" Furniture Grade PVC A-frames using five sections of tubing, a 3 way elbow at each top corner with one extra 45 on each side at the top to close up the angle.
Throw the heaviest moving blankets you can find over these. You can place them in the corners of the room.

If you have a flat finished ceiling, your next step should be some acoustic wedge foam up there, preferably 3" in thickness. You don't have to cover the whole ceiling, but you do want to make sure you cover the center of your room, and the area that the first reflections between your bell and the mic are going to occur.

If you need a more transportable solution, take two taller PVC frames on either side of where the mic is and span between them with a blanket over the mic.

The benefit of doing it this way is that it can be setup and torn down quite easily, and moving blankets and PVC have plenty more uses in the future. It's great if you don't want to touch the walls or ceiling if you're renting.

As for mics, I've really been digging the black Rode NT-1 on just about everything lately. For trombone, the Apex 205 ribbon mic has gotten good praise for a budget mic that can be upgraded in the future. http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/A ... ronics/205 I don't think any of the dynamic mics have done a solo trombone sound justice. Fine for horn parts in a mix though.
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Post by ttf_harrison.t.reed » Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:00 pm

Would love a pair of Neumann U89's
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Post by ttf_Pre59 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:32 pm

Quote from: Geezerhorn on Sep 21, 2017, 05:20AM
I wouldn't use the high pass filter. I don't like to use any filters, except a little reverb. Number 1 rule of home recording is to keep it simple.

...Geezer

For the sake of argument and from the Rode Manual,

A characteristic of most dynamic vocal microphones is that their ‘full frequency response’ is only evident when they are used very close to the sound source (within the proximity effect area). The low frequency of the M3 extends to below 20Hz which is an attractive quality for most recording situations.
For live performance however, you may wish to reduce these frequencies when using the M3 as a vocal microphone. If you have an external high pass  lter/bass roll-off, switch it in.
Alternatively, try moving the microphone away from the sound source (out of the proximity effect) or adjust the on-mic  lter switch.
This basic microphone control/technique should be practiced, to ensure that the best possible results are achieved.
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Post by ttf_harrison.t.reed » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:10 pm

I'll try to post some of my audition recordings on here soon. Anyone got some good recordings to demonstrate their techniques?
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Post by ttf_Driswood » Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:48 am

I've seen systems costing thousands of dollars put out of commission by a cheap cable.

Always buy quality cables. Money well spent.

Jerry Walker
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Post by ttf_ddickerson » Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:18 pm

Quote from: harrison.t.reed on Sep 21, 2017, 09:10PMI'll try to post some of my audition recordings on here soon. Anyone got some good recordings to demonstrate their techniques?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYaaeS8 ... e=youtu.be

This is a short video showing my setup, accompanied with an audio recording, made with the equipment shown in the video.

Of course, I will never be tackling the more complex projects that you've indicated you're interested in, but you can at least hear the Heil PR 40 mic, which was about 6 inches in front of the bell.


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Post by ttf_harrison.t.reed » Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:22 pm

Cool! The condenser mic is supposed to aim out like that? Mine needs to be placed upright so the diaphragm faces outwards.

Image

sounds nice man!
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Post by ttf_M.R.Tenor » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:17 pm

The Heil PR40 that he's using is a dynamic, not a condenser, and it's end address. Can be quite hard to keep track of if you're dealing with mics you don't know that well...
https://heilsound.com/wp-content/upload ... one-IB.pdf

Sounded great. I'll put up a clip next week sometime, will be busy this weekend,
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Post by ttf_Geezerhorn » Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:08 am

Nice Dusty! Great sound and I applaud your choice of tunes. Nice little music studio.

So what are you using for a DAW and what is your wave editor?

How did you cobble up your background track?

How did you do your recording; karaoke style or did you use a head set?

Terrific job!!!!!!!

...Geezer
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Post by ttf_ddickerson » Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:39 am

Quote from: Geezerhorn on Sep 23, 2017, 04:08AMNice Dusty! Great sound and I applaud your choice of tunes. Nice little music studio.

So what are you using for a DAW and what is your wave editor?

How did you cobble up your background track?

How did you do your recording; karaoke style or did you use a head set?

Terrific job!!!!!!!

...Geezer

Thank you! I love songs from the old american song book.

The software is band-in-a-box plus the realband module that comes with it. I didn't use any additional wave software, that's why you hear the countdown, etc. What you hear is just the raw mix output from the realband module.

I use apple earbuds, and put just one in my right ear, leaving the left ear open. The sound of the trax comes out of the computer small speakers and the ear buds.


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Post by ttf_Geezerhorn » Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:30 am

Quote from: ddickerson on Sep 23, 2017, 05:39AMThank you! I love songs from the old american song book.

The software is band-in-a-box plus the realband module that comes with it. I didn't use any additional wave software, that's why you hear the countdown, etc. What you hear is just the raw mix output from the realband module.

I use apple earbuds, and put just one in my right ear, leaving the left ear open. The sound of the trax comes out of the computer small speakers and the ear buds.


Very cool! Bravo!

You might try opening up Audacity (if you have it) and setting it to record anything that goes through your sound card. Then hit "record", launch your BiaB selection and let Audacity record it. You will get an outstanding wave that is exactly what you hear BiaB playing. You can then edit out the beginning clicks if you want and adjust the gain, etc. Save it as a wave file and then play that through your earbuds, etc and lay down your solo track underneath it. Save that as an Audacity project and you can go back in to adjust gains on tracks or even phrases for balance, add some reverb, etc before saving it again and mixing it down to a wave file.

By using Audacity to record what BiaB plays, you get a truer sound from the midi files. I have found that sometimes when I use BiaB to save it's selection to a wave file, the midi gets distorted. But if you are recording in RealBand while playing BiaB, you are essentially getting exactly what you hear BiaB producing. And if it lets you keep your solo track separate from the backing track, then you ought to be able to go in and do some editing. But if it mixes it down to a combined stereo wave while you are recording, then you can't, so much.

You are getting great results, but if you follow my procedure outlined above, or one similar, you might find you have a lot more editing tools at your disposal post recording session. Otherwise, I wouldn't change a thing. You have it down cold for home use.

...Geezer
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Post by ttf_ddickerson » Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:04 am

Geezer, you said:
"I have found that sometimes when I use BiaB to save it's selection to a wave file, the midi gets distorted."

I don't understand that. When I save the trax from BIAB to a wave file, it sounds good to me. How does midi get distorted?

Another thought, I haven't done this, but I bet Graham has and is an expert on this, and that is to open up Realband, open up a BIAB song, and then you should be able to be able to record your audio (trombone), then have complete mixing control over all the audio trax and BIAB instrument trax. Then create your final wav file.
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Post by ttf_Geezerhorn » Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:34 am

Quote from: ddickerson on Sep 23, 2017, 07:04AMGeezer, you said:
"I have found that sometimes when I use BiaB to save it's selection to a wave file, the midi gets distorted."

I don't understand that. When I save the trax from BIAB to a wave file, it sounds good to me. How does midi get distorted?

Another thought, I haven't done this, but I bet Graham has and is an expert on this, and that is to open up Realband, open up a BIAB song, and then you should be able to be able to record your audio (trombone), then have complete mixing control over all the audio trax and BIAB instrument trax. Then create your final wav file.

Image  It just doesn't sound right at all to me sometimes on certain songs I try to save that way. It's the soloist I have let BiaB auto-generate that gets distorted. I may have - say, a flute selected - which sounds good when played, but comes out as a harsh something or other noise when I save it to a wave file, so I just don't do it anymore.

*************************************************************************************************************

Okay guys. Here goes and don't laugh too hard!!!!!!!!

My music studio It's supposed to be silent but you can hear me breathing, so take off your headphones!  Image

Mouthpiece collection. lol

My recording contribution (Ira Nepus Collection for MMO)

Maybe upgrading my cables will help with the sound fidelity! Maybe learning how to play better will as well!  Image

...Geezer
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Post by ttf_ddickerson » Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:43 am

Quote from: Geezerhorn on Sep 23, 2017, 07:34AMIt's the soloist I have let BiaB auto-generate that gets distorted. I may have - say, a flute selected - which sounds good when played, but comes out as a harsh something or other noise when I save it to a wave file, so I just don't do it anymore.

Oh OK. I see what you mean now. I have never used the solo auto generate feature, and that's why I was confused. MyBad.

I'm ready now to listen to your trax!
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Post by ttf_ddickerson » Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:56 am

Sounds really good Geezer! I don't hear any cable issues so, in my opinion, save your money for other toys!
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Post by ttf_Geezerhorn » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:26 am

Quote from: ddickerson on Sep 23, 2017, 07:56AMSounds really good Geezer! I don't hear any cable issues so, in my opinion, save your money for other toys!

Thanks, man!

Those are cheapo 'Zon cables.

I may play around with the soundproofing in my studio a bit, adding some more deadening to walls and especially corners.

The way I record, I have to stay dead on the mic. When I move my bell to one side or the other - even just a bit, you can hear some room effect I don't like. It's especially tough on multi-page charts!

...Geezer
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Post by ttf_harrison.t.reed » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:33 am

For the Pershing's Own first round audition, I recorded a few required excerpts. Mostly in an isolation room with a condenser mic 2 meters in front and 1.5 meters above, and altverb to create the digital space:

Simple Gifts

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxlRSl ... p=drivesdk

Tuba Mirum:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxlRSl ... p=drivesdk

Rolling Thunder:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxlRSl ... p=drivesdk

IGSOY:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxlRSl ... p=drivesdk

Lohengrin:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxlRSl ... p=drivesdk

Priest and the Knockhead (muted solo. It needed a lot of EQ to fix the tiny isolation room I used):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxlRSl ... p=drivesdk
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Post by ttf_harrison.t.reed » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:43 am

I'd particularly appreciate any feedback regarding how I set up the reverb and the signal quality!
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Post by ttf_Pre59 » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:01 am

Quote from: harrison.t.reed on Sep 23, 2017, 08:43AMI'd particularly appreciate any feedback regarding how I set up the reverb and the signal quality!

Not aimed at you in particular, but home recording is a skill and discipline like any other. There's loads of books like this to get you going, and should give you some "sound" principles to work from.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Home-Recording ... 0764588842
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Post by ttf_Geezerhorn » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:24 am

Quote from: Pre59 on Sep 23, 2017, 09:01AMNot aimed at you in particular, but home recording is a skill and discipline like any other. There's loads of books like this to get you going, and should give you some "sound" principles to work from.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Home-Recording ... 0764588842

Sounds reasonable. I found it on the US 'Zon and ordered it, along with some new running shoes. And b/c I run with a FitBit linked with Humana for rewards, I was able to use a $25 'Zon gift card.  Image

Thanks for the idea!

...Geezer
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Post by ttf_harrison.t.reed » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:34 am

I have that book. It's pretty good and it has already helped me.
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Post by ttf_Pre59 » Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:18 am

Quote from: harrison.t.reed on Sep 23, 2017, 08:43AMI'd particularly appreciate any feedback regarding how I set up the reverb and the signal quality!

Not knowing what DAW you're using, I'd look for Male Vocal preset on your Reverbs to experiment with. In the meantime, here's something to be getting on with..

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... verb-pro-1
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