Too loose tuning slide?

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ttf_sirisobhakya
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Too loose tuning slide?

Post by ttf_sirisobhakya » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:07 am

One bass trombone of my former school, to be more specific a Bach 50B, has a very loose tuning slide. That tuning slide is, I believe, original one that comes with the horn. The horn is pretty beaten up, but the tuning slide is smooth enough that one can put linkage system on it and uses it like a tuba trigger (why one would use such thing on a trombone is questionable). The student who is using it wraps a rubber band around both legs, which helps a little, but not much. It just refuses to stay longer than around 3/4 inch pull, even with extra-viscous grease.

So my questions are:

1. Why? As far as I know a bent or damaged slide (or sleeve) should be harder to pull isn’t it? A sleeve/slide cannot just be smaller/bigger so uniformly unintentionally, right?

2. Is there any quick fix? Or any fix apart from ordering the new slide at all?

Thank you for your answer.
ttf_BGuttman
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Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:15 pm

Too loose tuning slide?

Post by ttf_BGuttman » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:14 am

It could be that somebody got really aggressive with some steel wool trying to "clean up" the slide legs.  Note: DON'T DO THIS!!

The metal can be slightly expanded to fit tighter. or the legs bent just a little interfere.  The rubber band solution works; I've seen O-rings used the same way.  Problem with rubber bands is that the sulfur in the rubber causes the brass to stain.

Short of the rubber band solution or very heavy grease (Lanolin comes to mind, but it may not work as well in a hot country like Thailand).  If uou want a permanent soluton you need to have a good repairman work on it.
ttf_Full Pedal Trombonist
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Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:00 pm

Too loose tuning slide?

Post by ttf_Full Pedal Trombonist » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:05 pm

A quick fix for me is a small strip of clear tape. I haven’t noticed a difference in the horn’s response or any discoloration from the adhesive.
ttf_greenbean
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Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am

Too loose tuning slide?

Post by ttf_greenbean » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:05 pm

I have handled several newer 50B that were built this way. The inner tubes were MUCH smaller than they need to be.  Don't know why they would do that - intentionally.

Anyway, the thickest slide grease I have found is this stuff:

http://www.monsteroil.net/slide-grease/

It is great.


ttf_robcat2075
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Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am

Too loose tuning slide?

Post by ttf_robcat2075 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:00 pm

I second the O-ring idea. Hardware and plumbing supply stores have a variety of sizes. Get one that fits snugly on each leg.

I presume there are such stores in Japan.
ttf_Full Pedal Trombonist
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Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:00 pm

Too loose tuning slide?

Post by ttf_Full Pedal Trombonist » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:51 pm

Is there less sulfur in a standard O ring than there is in a standard rubber band?
ttf_BGuttman
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Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:15 pm

Too loose tuning slide?

Post by ttf_BGuttman » Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:02 pm

O rings are usually synthetic rubber like Viton or Neoprene.  They don't use sulfur to vulcanize.

ttf_watermailonman
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Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:36 pm

Too loose tuning slide?

Post by ttf_watermailonman » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:52 pm

Quote from: BGuttman on Jan 13, 2018, 08:14AMIt could be that somebody got really aggressive with some steel wool trying to "clean up" the slide legs.  Note: DON'T DO THIS!!

The metal can be slightly expanded to fit tighter. or the legs bent just a little interfere.  The rubber band solution works; I've seen O-rings used the same way.  Problem with rubber bands is that the sulfur in the rubber causes the brass to stain.

Short of the rubber band solution or very heavy grease (Lanolin comes to mind, but it may not work as well in a hot country like Thailand).  If uou want a permanent soluton you need to have a good repairman work on it.

I have experience this with one of my horns. I used the method to bend one leg a little and that fixed the problem.

/Tom
ttf_jedrph
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Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:00 pm

Too loose tuning slide?

Post by ttf_jedrph » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:59 am

hetman ultra slide grease. It's a really thick tuning slide grease. that would be a temp fix.
ttf_elmsandr
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Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:00 pm

Too loose tuning slide?

Post by ttf_elmsandr » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:23 am

Quote from: watermailonman on Jan 13, 2018, 05:52PMI have experience this with one of my horns. I used the method to bend one leg a little and that fixed the problem.

/Tom
Not my favorite method, but definitely the easiest to do without any tools.

It is better to make the diameters fit properly, but that requires tools, time, and experience.

Cheers,
Andy
ttf_BGuttman
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Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:15 pm

Too loose tuning slide?

Post by ttf_BGuttman » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:00 am

Quote from: watermailonman on Jan 13, 2018, 05:52PMI have experience this with one of my horns. I used the method to bend one leg a little and that fixed the problem.

/Tom

I want to emphasize LITTLE. You might need to just warp it a bit.  Too much and the slide doesn't move at all (or fit).
ttf_greenbean
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Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am

Too loose tuning slide?

Post by ttf_greenbean » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:47 am

I would stress that bending your slide tubes so they are non-parallel should be viewed as an even MORE temporary fix than using thick grease.  (The thick grease could be long-term, actually.) 

You should give your horn to a tech.
ttf_Le.Tromboniste
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Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:59 am

Too loose tuning slide?

Post by ttf_Le.Tromboniste » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:10 am

I have the same problem on my 42. Previous owner had it sanded down a bit (you can see the marks), I guess because it was too tight, but that was extremely stupid of them because years later, it's now loose. We did the bending trick, but that only lasted so long before the tuning slide got back into its normal shape. Expanding was apparently not an option because only a portion of the slide (about a third of it, starting in the middle and up) is loose, and the thickness is uneven. I have a little container of Hetman 9, and it's the only thing that works. Unfortunately it was discontinued. The thing they replaced it with doesn't do the trick, the 8.5 either. Luckily you only need a small amount and it can stay on for a very long time before you need to apply it again, because when I run out of the stuff, it seems my only option will be to have the tuning slide legs replaced...
ttf_watermailonman
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Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:36 pm

Too loose tuning slide?

Post by ttf_watermailonman » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:04 pm

Quote from: BGuttman on Jan 14, 2018, 09:00AMI want to emphasize LITTLE. You might need to just warp it a bit.  Too much and the slide doesn't move at all (or fit).

Yes very, very little with a light hand. It works.

/Tom
ttf_watermailonman
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Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:36 pm

Too loose tuning slide?

Post by ttf_watermailonman » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:04 pm

Quote from: BGuttman on Jan 14, 2018, 09:00AMI want to emphasize LITTLE. You might need to just warp it a bit.  Too much and the slide doesn't move at all (or fit).

Yes very, very little with a light hand. It works.

/Tom
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