Tuner accuracy

ttf_svenlarsson
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Tuner accuracy

Post by ttf_svenlarsson » Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:18 am

Quote from: SilverBone on Nov 19, 2017, 08:10PMSome orchestras I've played in do give both an A and a Bb when doing.  I don't like the practice.  What if the given A and Bb are not in tune with each other?  Furthermore, I have no problem tuning to an A.  I play the D above it and listen to the interval.

It doesn't really matter if I tune exactly to the oboe A.  Just as long as I'm close, I have the world's longest tuning slide in my right hand to fix minor errors.  I actually prefer to be tuned slightly high relative to the oboe A so that if I'm flat in first position I can fix it on the fly.  (First position being slightly off the bumpers.)
Actually the idea of giving both A and Bb to the orchestra was practised in the The Rojal opera in Stockhom years ago. Bad idea. Did not improve the intonation. (understatement) QuoteWhat if the given A and Bb are not in tune with each other?

Well they arn´t. How could they?
ttf_John Beers Jr.
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Tuner accuracy

Post by ttf_John Beers Jr. » Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:14 pm

Quote from: GetzenBassPlayer on Nov 19, 2017, 05:24PMI don’t know what the valves instruments do, but for trombones in orchestra, tuning to A  is not an issue. We have a tuning slide in our hand and we are are making adjustments to compensate for many issues such as playing on a cold instrument or adjusting for changes in the pitch center that tends to occur with most groups.

I had meant to comment on this earlier, but I get annoyed when I'm offered a Bb rather than an A as the tuning note, particularly when other instruments are given the A.

For one thing, you can adjust the A in both directions with the mainslide, allowing you to get a clearer position of where your horn in particular is sitting. Yeah, I tune a little bit off the bumpers as a general rule, but that being the case, sometimes I need to go sharper than I can on just the handslide and there isn't always time to get the pitch, try to find it, come off horn, adjust tuning slide, go back to horn, etc. For another, I'm also dubious of the premise that the Oboe's A and Bb will be equivalent and that just adds more error to the approximate nature of amateur intonation.
ttf_Doug Elliott
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Tuner accuracy

Post by ttf_Doug Elliott » Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:25 pm

Quote from: John Beers Jr. on Nov 20, 2017, 02:14PMthe approximate nature of amateur intonation. Image Image Image
ttf_svenlarsson
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Tuner accuracy

Post by ttf_svenlarsson » Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:28 am

Quote from: Doug Elliott on Nov 20, 2017, 02:25PM Image Image Image

Yes I believe many of us don´t like the Bb as a tuning tone. I was against as a teacher to. I believe students of 16 up of years shall learn to tune to A, beacuse that is what they get in the orchestras. No Bb:s aaginst the bumper.

How many if us have experienced a tuner that was not accurat thoug?

I have never found a tuner that wasn´t accurat.


ttf_harrison.t.reed
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Tuner accuracy

Post by ttf_harrison.t.reed » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:10 am

OP still hasn't said whether or not the oboe's tuner was set to A442. If it was, it's not inaccurate, just tuned sharper.
ttf_timothy42b
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Tuner accuracy

Post by ttf_timothy42b » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:19 am

Checkout the intonation on this link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85_73iA ... e=youtu.be

I have visions of a whole section in our community band.


ttf_savio
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Tuner accuracy

Post by ttf_savio » Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:35 pm

 I wonder if this tuner apps for phones are to trust? I mostly use my internal tuner but not sure of the accuracy Image

Leif
ttf_Whitbey
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Tuner accuracy

Post by ttf_Whitbey » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:44 pm

Quote from: harrison.t.reed on Nov 21, 2017, 04:10AMOP still hasn't said whether or not the oboe's tuner was set to A442. If it was, it's not inaccurate, just tuned sharper.

Not sure what the tuner was set to as I did not want to touch other peoples stuff. I did point out it was wrong when two nearby tuners were right.

I recall I had a tuner many years ago that was off and not adjustable......except to place it in the bottom of the trash can.

I personally prefer a pitch pipe. But I mostly prefer A 440.
ttf_LowrBrass
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Tuner accuracy

Post by ttf_LowrBrass » Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:43 am

Quote from: savio on Nov 21, 2017, 01:35PM I wonder if this tuner apps for phones are to trust? I mostly use my internal tuner but not sure of the accuracy Image

Leif

I don't trust phone tuner apps, but everyone I've said this to acts shocked, so it's probably just me.  Image
Might be that I'm using an archaic smartphone, so both my phone's mic and my app could be wonky.
Might also be that I like to use a tuner to check a whole buncha notes throughout my range. It might be fine for a simple A=440 tuning pitch, but it craps out when I try to play anything outside a narrow mid-range of pitches.
ttf_BillO
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Tuner accuracy

Post by ttf_BillO » Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:26 am

I'd speculate most of us would not be able to tell the difference between 440 & 442 if we heard them played apart by an hour or so.  I think the way to resolve this is to train yourself to tune by ear.  The director should pick a wind instrument (oboe or clarinet) and have everyone tune by ear to it. Perhaps more than once per practice so that everyone gets used to adjusting as they go.
ttf_ronnies
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Tuner accuracy

Post by ttf_ronnies » Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:16 am

Quote from: BillO on Nov 23, 2017, 06:26AMI'd speculate most of us would not be able to tell the difference between 440 & 442 if we heard them played apart by an hour or so.  I think the way to resolve this is to train yourself to tune by ear.  The director should pick a wind instrument (oboe or clarinet) and have everyone tune by ear to it. Perhaps more than once per practice so that everyone gets used to adjusting as they go.

Doesn't everybody do that?

Ronnie
ttf_timothy42b
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Tuner accuracy

Post by ttf_timothy42b » Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:19 am

Quote from: LowrBrass on Nov 23, 2017, 05:43AM
Might also be that I like to use a tuner to check a whole buncha notes throughout my range. It might be fine for a simple A=440 tuning pitch, but it craps out when I try to play anything outside a narrow mid-range of pitches.

Could be the tuner on those other notes, but, could it also be you?

Somebody, I think it was Brad Edwards? recommended occasional tuner use for the purpose of recalibrating your ear.  That makes sense to me.  I've been doing it with the pBones I'm playing (some hand pain is limiting my ability to play the 42B) and I might have drifted a bit on some notes.

Also recording a rehearsal can be enlightening.  I'm hearing myself play a tiny bit sharp when I could have sworn I was playing under pitch. 
ttf_BillO
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Post by ttf_BillO » Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:30 am

Quote from: ronnies on Nov 23, 2017, 07:16AMDoesn't everybody do that?

Ronnie
You would think.
ttf_harrison.t.reed
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Post by ttf_harrison.t.reed » Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:56 am

Quote from: ronnies on Nov 23, 2017, 07:16AMDoesn't everybody do that?

Ronnie

OP wants to but has 440 stuck in his head, along with the entire orchestra other than the oboe player.
ttf_LowrBrass
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Tuner accuracy

Post by ttf_LowrBrass » Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:15 am

Quote from: timothy42b on Nov 23, 2017, 09:19AMCould be the tuner on those other notes, but, could it also be you?

Could it be me re: I'm out of tune? Of course I'm out of tune!! Otherwise I wouldn't be bothering to use a tuner at all.
I should have been clearer; when I say it "craps out," I mean the needle becomes either completely unresponsive or wildly spastic (like, between an octave or two's worth of notes, not just the usual "spastic" problem where it can't tell if I'm playing a really flat C or a really sharp B).
I don't have this problem with my Korg tuner.
But this is an off-topic issue.
I'm just sayin' I don't trust phone tuners.

Quote from: timothy42b on Nov 23, 2017, 09:19AMSomebody, I think it was Brad Edwards? recommended occasional tuner use for the purpose of recalibrating your ear.  That makes sense to me.  I've been doing it with the pBones I'm playing (some hand pain is limiting my ability to play the 42B) and I might have drifted a bit on some notes.

This is what I use it for. At home. Often supplemented by a drone/autotune. To see where my G is these days, to check my B-natural, etc.

ttf_timothy42b
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Post by ttf_timothy42b » Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:19 am

Quote from: LowrBrass on Nov 24, 2017, 05:15AM

This is what I use it for. At home. Often supplemented by a drone/autotune. To see where my G is these days, to check my B-natural, etc.


That's what I do too, but also I've recorded the last couple rehearsals.  Since I've been the only trombone showing up, if I'm out of tune it's pretty obvious.  I'm hearing myself play a little sharp on the recorder when I was hearing it okay when playing.  It's  not a lot sharp, but even a tiny bit is wrong.

Obviously I need to bring a couple more recorders and see if one of those is inaccurate.  <hee, hee>
ttf_Andrew Meronek
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Post by ttf_Andrew Meronek » Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:48 am

Quote from: timothy42b on Nov 24, 2017, 05:19AMThat's what I do too, but also I've recorded the last couple rehearsals.  Since I've been the only trombone showing up, if I'm out of tune it's pretty obvious.  I'm hearing myself play a little sharp on the recorder when I was hearing it okay when playing.  It's  not a lot sharp, but even a tiny bit is wrong.

Obviously I need to bring a couple more recorders and see if one of those is inaccurate.  <hee, hee>

Just out of curiosity - what is the acoustics of your rehearsal space like? I am not always in tune either, but I think at least for me it's usually when I can't properly hear the rest of the group, and people next to me (i.e., trumpets) are also sharp but the only clear pitch reference due to what the room propagates.

ttf_timothy42b
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Post by ttf_timothy42b » Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:47 am

Quote from: Andrew Meronek on Nov 24, 2017, 06:48AMJust out of curiosity - what is the acoustics of your rehearsal space like? I am not always in tune either, but I think at least for me it's usually when I can't properly hear the rest of the group, and people next to me (i.e., trumpets) are also sharp but the only clear pitch reference due to what the room propagates.


Very live, loud and echoey, and people playing way too loudly at the same time. 

I leave my H2 on a table behind me and to the left.  But I'm very present in the mix, even with the mini pBone.  Maybe I should put it out in front and see.  The pBone doesn't give much feedback and I may be playing too loudly also. 

Maybe I can snip a couple segments today and see what you all think. 
ttf_Doug Elliott
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Post by ttf_Doug Elliott » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:01 am

I'm the one who has talked about using a tuner to calibrate your ear when your own hearing is inaccurate.

The real problem is that when you're playing there are three pathways of sound - bone conduction, right ear, and left ear.  Perception of pitch can be slightly different in each.  That's why you can think you're in tune when you're playing but the recording (and the tuner) tell you otherwise.

Using a tuner helps to get accustomed to the actual correct pitch sounding correct.
ttf_Le.Tromboniste
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Tuner accuracy

Post by ttf_Le.Tromboniste » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:11 am

Quote from: LowrBrass on Nov 24, 2017, 05:15AMI'm just sayin' I don't trust phone tuners.

On a side note, we in the early music world all are big users of phone tuner apps, because of the huge flexibility they offer in terms of reference pitch and temperaments. The only traditional tuner that can compete with them is the Korg Orchestral Tuner. Which sells for ~$80.....(it is a great machine and I love the analog needle with adjustable sensitivity - but it's a bit large to carry around when you can just pull out your phone and have something almost as good and even more flexible).

And so these apps are extremely useful to us. Also very useful to tune a harpsichord or organ on the fly. Yet, there are some issues with that, one of them is, as you say, reliability - there is some variation based on what phone you have - I have noticed some differences between my two phones and my Korg, with all three giving me different readings for the same note even if calibrated to the same frequency and tuning system. Also, some of the tuning apps (including the most widespread, Cleartune) have mistakes in some temperaments, and now that many keyboard players will use their phone tuners instead of tuning by ear and/or comparing the raw frequencies to a tuning chart, you find that these mistakes sometimes make their way in actual daily use, where some notes are no longer exactly where they should be...
ttf_Andrew Meronek
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Post by ttf_Andrew Meronek » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:55 am

Quote from: Doug Elliott on Nov 24, 2017, 08:01AMI'm the one who has talked about using a tuner to calibrate your ear when your own hearing is inaccurate.

The real problem is that when you're playing there are three pathways of sound - bone conduction, right ear, and left ear.  Perception of pitch can be slightly different in each.  That's why you can think you're in tune when you're playing but the recording (and the tuner) tell you otherwise.

Using a tuner helps to get accustomed to the actual correct pitch sounding correct.

Great point!  Image

Sorry to harp on it, but this is another reason why it's pretty useful to learn the colors of harmonic tuning - getting those pure 3rds/5ths/etc. because locking in those kinds of intervals doesn't depend on this kind of perception. The "color processing" for intervals and how sound waves form chord-ish patterns is a different level of processing in our brains.

Speaking of tuners, if I remember correctly, it's a fun little physics quirk that someone almost matching a tuning note at the unison versus almost matching someone at an octave produces two different kinds of interference patterns. At octaves, very close pitches produce standard binaurnal beats, where the beats represent a cycle of the change in amplitude caused by the interference pattern. At the unison, the effect is different: the beats represent a cycle of the change in frequency as well as amplitude.

I think unison beats are easier to hear, so in terms of having an oboe or similar instrument tune up an orchestra, one interesting variation in the tuning ritual would be to give separate tuning notes in separate octaves.
ttf_Le.Tromboniste
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Post by ttf_Le.Tromboniste » Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:32 am

Quote from: Andrew Meronek on Nov 24, 2017, 08:55AMI think unison beats are easier to hear, so in terms of having an oboe or similar instrument tune up an orchestra, one interesting variation in the tuning ritual would be to give separate tuning notes in separate octaves.

In a band I used to play in (and whose director is very interested in trying different approaches to intonation and blend), for a while we tuned in unisons and octaves from the bottom up, having a single tuba give a Bb, then the other tubas would tune to it, then some of them would switch octaves, a trombone would come in and tune to that, the others would come in and tune to him, and the tuning note would gradually move up the brass line like that, passing from principal to principal and octave to octave, with every principal taking their note from the previous on a unison, and members of the section taking their note from their principal, also at first on a unison. The same would happen with an A in the woodwinds.

It was interesting. I don't know how much difference it made in the tuning itself (it was a very good semi-pro band and intonation was not a big issue generally), but I think that and other elements intended to raise awareness to the sound concept of a pyramid based on the basses did improve the blend and the ensemble sound quite a bit.
ttf_M.R.Tenor
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Post by ttf_M.R.Tenor » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:21 am

The audience (and the people paying you to play) aren't listening with a tuner, they're listening with their ears.

You have to play in tune with the musicians and instruments you're making music with, not with lights or bars on an electronic device.

Unless you have perfect pitch A=430, 435, 440, 441, 442, 444 or WHATEVER doesn't make a lick of difference. The oboe is your reference over the tuner if that's what your ensemble tunes to. If you're playing with any kind of fixed pitch instrument, i.e. a keyboard/piano/synth/percussion or samples, then you tune AND TEMPER the rest of the ensemble to those instruments in the sections they're involved. Possibly with a tuner set to match the non tunable instruments if you need to save time.

If the oboe isn't in tune with the piano, you have bigger problems than just pitch. Do your best to match with what you believe to be the lead voice in that section of music, which is usually your section leader.

Just or Pythagorean or equal temperament should only ever come into play if you're the only person on stage playing that pitch, otherwise you compromise to be in tune with the other musicians. The listeners would much rather hear you match the equal tempered third in the chord than create beating between voices because you're worried about being "right", and you think the oboe is wrong.

Use a tuner when you practice by yourself to stay aware of your tuning habits, and not let them influence your ear. Being able to hear if you're in tune or not is just as important as being able to play in tune.
ttf_John Beers Jr.
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Post by ttf_John Beers Jr. » Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:59 am

Quote from: LowrBrass on Nov 24, 2017, 05:15AMCould it be me re: I'm out of tune? Of course I'm out of tune!! Otherwise I wouldn't be bothering to use a tuner at all.
I should have been clearer; when I say it "craps out," I mean the needle becomes either completely unresponsive or wildly spastic (like, between an octave or two's worth of notes, not just the usual "spastic" problem where it can't tell if I'm playing a really flat C or a really sharp B).
I don't have this problem with my Korg tuner.
But this is an off-topic issue.
I'm just sayin' I don't trust phone tuners.

This is what I use it for. At home. Often supplemented by a drone/autotune. To see where my G is these days, to check my B-natural, etc.


The issue with phone tuners, as far as I can tell, is more an issue of speed than it is of accuracy, per se. Your Korg/Boss/Peterson/etc tuners have discrete circuits built for the purpose of finding the pitch, isolating it, and figuring out exactly where it is in relation to the chosen reference pitch.

The phone tuner runs everything through the DAC and then the phone's CPU, and is going through your phone's built-in microphone which may not have a microphone balance for which the tuner is ready.

I've had better luck with the $10 Peterson iStrobosoft app than I have with a lot of the free options, and with the free options (in particular DaTuner), you can try screwing around with the speed/accuracy balance, microphone sensitivity (are you clipping the mic? Are you picking up resonances outside of your trombone in particular?) to find the best results.

The last tip is one that I personally don't like, but it seems to help: Get the most popular phone, so the app developers can set up a profile for the particular microphone in use by the app. I had nothing but trouble with the tuner/SPLMeter/etc apps on my Droid Turbo (I loved that phone, but Verizon offered me a deal to get 2 for the price of 1 if I traded it in, and a family member desperately needed a new device), but with the Galaxy S7 (probably the most popular phone at that time) it seems much more stable. iDevices don't have this problem to such a large degree since there's only one made per generation, but if you're using Android it bears mentioning.
ttf_Ellrod
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Tuner accuracy

Post by ttf_Ellrod » Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:11 pm

An occasional tune-up with a tuner is pretty useful, especially moving between horns. Yes, on my Yamaha 691 third position is that close.
ttf_Doug Elliott
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Tuner accuracy

Post by ttf_Doug Elliott » Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:58 pm

TE Tuner app on my phone is the best tuner I've seen, with a lot of other nice functions.  I have no reason to doubt its extreme accuracy.
ttf_Whitbey
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Post by ttf_Whitbey » Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:47 pm

The oboe got a new tuner!

Someone talked to her and got her to get a new one. I think they put several tuners on her stand and showed her.


ttf_Le.Tromboniste
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Post by ttf_Le.Tromboniste » Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:19 pm

Quote from: John Beers Jr. on Nov 28, 2017, 11:59AMThe issue with phone tuners, as far as I can tell, is more an issue of speed than it is of accuracy, per se. Your Korg/Boss/Peterson/etc tuners have discrete circuits built for the purpose of finding the pitch, isolating it, and figuring out exactly where it is in relation to the chosen reference pitch.

The phone tuner runs everything through the DAC and then the phone's CPU, and is going through your phone's built-in microphone which may not have a microphone balance for which the tuner is ready.

I'm no electronics specialist, but I doubt most modern phones have any issue with speed with regards to use as a tuner. They will instantaneously complete far more complex operations without trouble, all the time. Plus, aside from speed, the hardware in most modern phone would be much, much higher quality and precision than what's in a $10 tuner.

Quote from: John Beers Jr. on Nov 28, 2017, 11:59AMI've had better luck with the $10 Peterson iStrobosoft app than I have with a lot of the free options, and with the free options (in particular DaTuner), you can try screwing around with the speed/accuracy balance, microphone sensitivity (are you clipping the mic? Are you picking up resonances outside of your trombone in particular?) to find the best results.

Quote from: Doug Elliott on Nov 28, 2017, 12:58PMTE Tuner app on my phone is the best tuner I've seen, with a lot of other nice functions.  I have no reason to doubt its extreme accuracy.

I've heard good things about that TonalEnergy app.

Some great phone based options out there, many for free. Probably the most used and popular one is Cleartune. My personal favorite is PitchLab (don't be fooled by the silly marketing presenting it as a "Guitar tuner"). The free basic version is the most complete tuner app I've seen. More temperaments, more settings to play with, plus the possibility to create your own temperaments or modify the existing ones (if you find a mistake in them, for instance), which Cleartune only offers in the Apple version, not the Android. The only downside of PitchLab is the visualizations are not great. You can get more advanced options for a small cost (among other, a very cool "pitch spectogram" feature that displays your pitch in relation to time, so you can see when you have a tendency to go attack sharp or go flat at the end of notes, for example - I hear TonalEnergy has a similar feature as well).
ttf_Steven
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Post by ttf_Steven » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:05 pm

Quote from: Whitbey on Nov 28, 2017, 02:47PMThe oboe got a new tuner!

Someone talked to her and got her to get a new one. I think they put several tuners on her stand and showed her.



In community groups, there is some humor involved in tuning to an oboe.  The oboe player plays their A, and we wait for the note to settle.  When the note finally settles, we can say that is the note we use to tune.  The concert master wears a wonderful look of seasickness when it takes extra long for the note to settle.
ttf_BillO
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Post by ttf_BillO » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:51 pm

Quote from: Le.Tromboniste on Nov 28, 2017, 05:19PMI'm no electronics specialist, but I doubt most modern phones have any issue with speed with regards to use as a tuner. They will instantaneously complete far more complex operations without trouble, all the time.

You are right there.  The processors in today's phones run the the GHz range.  That means, for the layman, they live at billions of cycles per second.  Music deals with hundreds or thousands per second.  While tuning your trombone, the phone is basically asleep.  Unless, of course, the programmer was incompetent. Which is, of course, a distinct possibility.
ttf_BillO
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Post by ttf_BillO » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:53 pm

Quote from: Doug Elliott on Nov 28, 2017, 12:58PMTE Tuner app on my phone is the best tuner I've seen, with a lot of other nice functions.  I have no reason to doubt its extreme accuracy.
Is this an app that, for reasons no one can determine (hehe) requires access to the internet, your location and your contacts DB?
ttf_LowrBrass
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Post by ttf_LowrBrass » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:58 pm

Quote from: Le.Tromboniste on Nov 28, 2017, 05:19PMI'm no electronics specialist, but I doubt most modern phones have any issue with speed with regards to use as a tuner. They will instantaneously complete far more complex operations without trouble, all the time. Plus, aside from speed, the hardware in most modern phone would be much, much higher quality and precision than what's in a $10 tuner.

I'm no electronics specialist either, but I can assure you nothing on my five-year-old phone is "instantaneous" these days.



Thanks for the info, John Beers. Makes sense to me.
ttf_Doug Elliott
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Post by ttf_Doug Elliott » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:12 pm

Quote from: BillO on Nov 28, 2017, 07:53PMIs this an app that, for reasons no one can determine (hehe) requires access to the internet, your location and your contacts DB?
Not that I know of.
ttf_BillO
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Post by ttf_BillO » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:15 pm

Quote from: Doug Elliott on Nov 28, 2017, 09:12PMNot that I know of.
Well, that is promising.  Such honest applications are a rarity these days.
ttf_M.R.Tenor
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Post by ttf_M.R.Tenor » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:54 am

Quote from: BillO on Nov 28, 2017, 07:53PMIs this an app that, for reasons no one can determine (hehe) requires access to the internet, your location and your contacts DB?

Access to Device ID's in Android, say if the app wants to optimize for a specific phone's microphone and A/D idiosyncracies, means that Google Play store will tell you that it needs to access your Contacts, even though it's just looking at the device name, which obviously has nothing to do with your contacts.

Also for Region/Language customization, such as to properly display the different ways notes are named around the world, it needs to access your "Location". If they need to do any lookup in a self hosted database to do the aforementioned hardware corrections/updates to make sure the tuner doesn't start reading incorrectly with whatever carrier or manufacturer update got released that week(which also requires access to your "Contacts"), it's going to be listed as permission to access to the internet. The alternative is to build it into an app update that needs significantly more bandwidth and may require the user to manually do.

This is a problem with the way Google categorizes and labels permissions, not with the apps themselves. Some apps will list specifically what they need the permissions for though if you're not a developer yourself there's no way to check they're being honest. Also keep in mind that development does take work, and a lot of these apps are free and have to be supported by ads and/or selling user data and analytics to even exist in the first place. Even more so on the Apple store as Apple takes a third of the money for themselves, because they feel that their platform alone is responsible for a THIRD of the entire worth of every app, piece of music, book or article that's offered through their store.
ttf_M.R.Tenor
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Tuner accuracy

Post by ttf_M.R.Tenor » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:54 am

Quote from: BillO on Nov 28, 2017, 07:53PMIs this an app that, for reasons no one can determine (hehe) requires access to the internet, your location and your contacts DB?

Access to Device ID's in Android, say if the app wants to optimize for a specific phone's microphone and A/D idiosyncracies, means that Google Play store will tell you that it needs to access your Contacts, even though it's just looking at the device name, which obviously has nothing to do with your contacts.

Also for Region/Language customization, such as to properly display the different ways notes are named around the world, it needs to access your "Location". If they need to do any lookup in a self hosted database to do the aforementioned hardware corrections/updates to make sure the tuner doesn't start reading incorrectly with whatever carrier or manufacturer update got released that week(which also requires access to your "Contacts"), it's going to be listed as permission to access to the internet. The alternative is to build it into an app update that needs significantly more bandwidth and may require the user to manually do.

This is a problem with the way Google categorizes and labels permissions, not with the apps themselves. Some apps will list specifically what they need the permissions for though if you're not a developer yourself there's no way to check they're being honest. Also keep in mind that development does take work, and a lot of these apps are free and have to be supported by ads and/or selling user data and analytics to even exist in the first place. Even more so on the Apple store as Apple takes a third of the money for themselves, because they feel that their platform alone is responsible for a THIRD of the entire worth of every app, piece of music, book or article that's offered through their store.
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