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To the mouthpiece gurus out there, a specific question that I haven't seen definitively answered here:

Are the Greg Black New York Series mouthpieces just renamed, identical versions of the old Greg Black Alessi series mouthpieces?

Also, if the answer to the question above is "Yes", how different is the rim on the GB NY 1 series compared to the Griego Alessi 1 series? Griego Mouthpieces description said that the rim shape (ie width between inner and outer rim, contour, and inner diameter ) was unchanged from the GB series, but a confirmation would be nice.

I love my Griego 1C. If the rim on the GB NY 1.5 is the same, I was thinking about testing one out. I am hoping not to get any responses like "you need to try it to know" or "just because it is an Alessi doesn't mean it's good" or other answers that don't answer the questions above -- I already play on the Griego 1C and just want to try the mouthpiece that it evolved out of ... I do want to test it out so I can know. If anything the 1C can be a bit bright so a slightly different permutation might be handy. But if the GB NY is not a rebranded Alessi, it's moot.

Thanks!

I talked to Greg about this a while back and he said that they are exactly the same, and even if they weren't he would have the specs on hand of the originals to make one upon request. My teacher has an Alessi 3.5 and I have the NY 3.5. They feel like the exact same mouthpiece.

As far as the Greg Black to Griego comparison I have no answer except that they are two completely different beasts. The rims may be more or less identical to Greg's but the other differences between them make huge differences. My guess is that even if they are slightly different you wouldn't be able to tell because of the other differences. Just my $.02 since I love my GB 3.5 but personally did not like the Griegos at all.

Quote from: Screamin Trombone Playa on Mar 09, 2017, 11:52AMI talked to Greg about this a while back and he said that they are exactly the same, and even if they weren't he would have the specs on hand of the originals to make one upon request. My teacher has an Alessi 3.5 and I have the NY 3.5. They feel like the exact same mouthpiece.

As far as the Greg Black to Griego comparison I have no answer except that they are two completely different beasts. The rims may be more or less identical to Greg's but the other differences between them make huge differences. My guess is that even if they are slightly different you wouldn't be able to tell because of the other differences. Just my $.02 since I love my GB 3.5 but personally did not like the Griegos at all.

Awesome. I'd still appreciate anyone else chiming in to confirm that they are just renamed versions of the old specs.

Yeah, the Griego is great but at times it is just very bright.

Were you able to try any of the different weights? I'm guessing the medium weight is what the old blank was?

**correction, it looks like the REGULAR weight is what the old blank was? Medium being heavier?

I own both Greg Black Alessi 5 and New York 5 (both regular weight), and they feel and sound different, I prefer the Alessi.

Quote from: pedrombon on Mar 09, 2017, 12:10PMI own both Greg Black Alessi 5 and New York 5 (both regular weight), and they feel and sound different, I prefer the Alessi.

Yikes! This is why I asked. Now if I can just get four more conflicting reports, then I'll know for sure. 

I have owned (no longer) a GB Alessi 1.5 and NY 1.5. They were different. The Alessi was more centered and had a slightly shallower cup. I liked it better (for most things. The NY was better for FFF type destruction).

What I heard was that the original Alessi designs evolved over time and when he switched to Griego the most current GB Alessi designs became the NY series. Not sure if the NY has evolved at all. This is hearsay, but from someone who usually has a very good idea about these things.

The Alessi/ Black mouthpieces are definitely not the same as the GB NY mouthpieces.
The rims and cup depths are different, and I'm pretty sure the throats are also.
The NY's rim seems to be rounder and their cup depths deeper. I find the 3.5 Alessi/ GB to be a good big sounding tenor mouthpiece, but the GBNY 3.5 is way too deep for my needs, and would be best suited for playing bass parts on my tenor trombone.

Could it be that the numbering changed? Was the Alessi 1M the classic Alessi piece, whereas the NY 1.5 is the new equivalent?

I work with Greg regularly. They are different and I don't believe he will make one to the Alessi specs. He changed and updated the design when they became to New York series.

I've played the Black NY1 series in various depths for years. I could be wrong, but until reading this thread I would have sworn, through talks with Greg, that the NY and Alessi series were virtually identical. This may not be the case for the sizes Joe himself did not play, but as for the NY1/Alessi 1 series, it was my understanding they were identical. I have played both the Alessi and NY series from Greg, and they certainly felt and played identically.

As for the relationship between Black/Griego rims, they may not be identical, but they're extremely close. I can switch between the two makers without any noticeable change in mechanics. Obviously, the sound is noticeably different.

FWIW, I have a GB NY 5.5 and the rim is not the same as griego alessi 5 I had before. Much prefer the GB rim shape - I don't think it's as wide or maybe a little rounder than the Griego. I don't have the griego any longer to compare side by side though. I never cared for the sound I got from the griego, but I do like the GB.

Quote from: JBledsoe on Mar 09, 2017, 10:58PMI've played the Black NY1 series in various depths for years. I could be wrong, but until reading this thread I would have sworn, through talks with Greg, that the NY and Alessi series were virtually identical. This may not be the case for the sizes Joe himself did not play, but as for the NY1/Alessi 1 series, it was my understanding they were identical. I have played both the Alessi and NY series from Greg, and they certainly felt and played identically.

As for the relationship between Black/Griego rims, they may not be identical, but they're extremely close. I can switch between the two makers without any noticeable change in mechanics. Obviously, the sound is noticeably different.

Hmmm...  the NY1.5 might be the perfect 2nd mouthpiece then. Is Greg Black still difficult to get orders from?

Quote from: harrison.t.reed on Mar 12, 2017, 09:11PMHmmm...  the NY1.5 might be the perfect 2nd mouthpiece then. Is Greg Black still difficult to get orders from?

In the last couple years, Greg has been very fast for me. The 1.5 is my everyday mouthpiece orchestral mouthpiece. I use the NY1 in the quintet, but it's more a function of endurance than anything else. Playing a demanding 2 hour quintet show with no rest is rough day-in/day-out. I haven't had any issues getting in touch with Greg or with any significant delays when I need a new piece.

I've been playing the NY 1 series for almost 6 years now and I haven't switched.  I tried the Griego alessi series, they're not bad mouthpieces, but I couldn't get my concept of sound with them,  I feel like the GB NY have more depth to the sound, and it's easy to get brilliance if you want it, but still retain depth in the sound.

 As far as the weight is concerned, based on what Christian Griego told me, the alessi mp is in between the regular and medium weight GB.  I personally like GB lightweight and regular.  I've recently switched to a 3.25, because I've gone through some embochure Changes and the 1 was not as efficient anymore.

When ordering from him, I feel it's best to call him, I've ordered 4 mouthpieces from him in 6 years and I call every time and have them within 10 days.

Also, based on speaking with both Christian Griego and Greg Black, for the large bore tenors, the .5 NY cup corresponds roughly to the F cup for Griego, .25 NY to d-e Griego and no decimal number NY to the C cup Griego.

As this was the thread I was looking for, I also have a specific question

How do the dimensions of GB Alessi compares to GB NY? I can't find anything about specs of GB Alessi.
I have a GB Alessi 3M, which a friend gave me. Overall I like the piece, but it's too big so I want to know what size I'm playing now to make a further decision.

I’ve played on an Alessi / Black 1.25 and 1.5M, a Griego Alessi 1B and 1C, and a GB NY 1M and 1.25M.
I feel the  Alessi’s differ as the Griego feels more open than the Alessi GB( the throat is a little more open) but at the same time the sound of the Griego is a little more compact and more consensual. According to the advertised dimensions the Griego Alessi and Black Alessi rims and cups are the same.

The GB NY’s are different pieces, they have different dimensions, they play different and sound different.
If anyone wants to hear a comparison drop me an email. I made a very rough recording on my phone before selling my GB’s.
The GB NY 1 series rims are smaller that the Alessi’s. The cups and throats are different also.
For me the 1M was more centered and felt  smaller than the 1B. It’s hard to tell though, as I found the rim a little too small.
The 1.25M made a darker sound than the 1C, but the 1C felt wider yet shallower. Again it felt too small for me.

The GB NY and the GB Alessi are the exact same mouthpieces. I believe he changed the name to New York when Joe switched to playing on Griego.

However, I don't believe Greg is making mouthpieces right now due to health problems (I believe). Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but he's really far behind because of it and isn't taking orders from what I've heard from friends trying to order his mouthpieces.

Quote from: FlamingRain on Oct 24, 2017, 01:19PMThe GB NY and the GB Alessi are the exact same mouthpieces. I believe he changed the name to New York when Joe switched to playing on Griego.

However, I don't believe Greg is making mouthpieces right now due to health problems (I believe). Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but he's really far behind because of it and isn't taking orders from what I've heard from friends trying to order his mouthpieces.

That's nothing new for Greg. He's never been the easiest to get in touch with. I haven't heard anything about his health so I can't speak about that but don't make the assumption that if you can't get in touch with him that he's fallen ill.  There is a forum member who regularly deals with him who might chime in but I just wanted to mention that before rumors get spread.

Quote from: Matt K on Oct 24, 2017, 03:02PMThat's nothing new for Greg. He's never been the easiest to get in touch with. I haven't heard anything about his health so I can't speak about that but don't make the assumption that if you can't get in touch with him that he's fallen ill.  There is a forum member who regularly deals with him who might chime in but I just wanted to mention that before rumors get spread.

Sure. That has just been what has been heard from me, from someone here who has tried to order a mouthpiece from him in the last month or two.

Quote from: Matt K on Oct 24, 2017, 03:02PMThat's nothing new for Greg. He's never been the easiest to get in touch with. I haven't heard anything about his health so I can't speak about that but don't make the assumption that if you can't get in touch with him that he's fallen ill.  There is a forum member who regularly deals with him who might chime in but I just wanted to mention that before rumors get spread.

Sure. That has just been what has been heard from me, from someone here who has tried to order a mouthpiece from him in the last month or two.