Larger piece = better high range?

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ttf_PowerJam
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Larger piece = better high range?

Post by ttf_PowerJam » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:51 am

Hello again! I've never had a good high range. Despite having my face on the horn every day (missed less than 10 days a year) for the last 5 years. And regularly (if not everyday) working on range and flexability I've never had anything higher than a   Image Image D. After switching from a bach 6 1/2al on my large bore and 6 3/4-ish MP on my small and medium horns to bach 5G's on both, I've noticed my range increase to a (somewhat weak) high E. Sometimes I can even squeak out an F. 2 questions:

1: why might this have happened?
2: after a few months, the 5 has begun to feel small on my face (why I switched in the first place) should I go a size larger? Might I get even better results?

Sorry for the novel, and thanks!
ttf_hyperbolica
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Larger piece = better high range?

Post by ttf_hyperbolica » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:03 am

Generally, no, larger mouthpieces are for lower notes. Sometimes, you just find the right piece for you. Sometimes just practicing, or resting will increase your range, depending of course on what else you've been doing. Buzzing a couple minutes a day can help range. Once you're up that high, more range isn't that much of an issue, but you might want to practice stuff that helps you solidify that range and make use of all the notes.

It would probably be best for you to get a real teacher, and have a lesson every week or so. That will help you drive your playing forward more than anything.
ttf_Bimmerman
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Larger piece = better high range?

Post by ttf_Bimmerman » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:08 am

I'm no expert (Doug is!) but some folks' embouchures work better with larger rims, sometimes dramatically so. Larger rim (5, 4, etc) may fit your face better than the smaller stuff did.

The lightswitch moment for me was realizing I needed less effort to hit a high D on a Bach 2G + bass as I did with a 7C on my small bore horn, and that my endurance in that range was no different. I currently play one of Doug's pieces around the Bach 4 rim size on my large and small tenors. It's been nothing but good things for me w/r/t range, flexibility, and endurance. I've tried playing smaller mouthpieces since buying the DE piece and it's surprising how poor they work for me now.

Critically though, having a few (sporadic due to my non-trombone reasons) lessons with Doug identified bad habits I was doing mechanistically that I've been working to address. Spending the effort to fix the way I was using the soft muscles has helped me way more than just the rim change did. I'm not suggesting that's your issue, but it was notable for me personally.
ttf_JohnL
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Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:59 am

Larger piece = better high range?

Post by ttf_JohnL » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:08 am

Maybe the 5G rim just fits your face better...
ttf_davdud101
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Larger piece = better high range?

Post by ttf_davdud101 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:16 am

Talk to Doug Elliot!!




although i can say in my own experience, some slightly deeper mouthpieces allow my to put more air in which in turn gives me MORE AIR to HVE control over/hit notes more accurately. Poorly explained, Doug can put it in better words or otherwise explain away whatever I'm saying here.
ttf_PowerJam
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Larger piece = better high range?

Post by ttf_PowerJam » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:22 am

Thanks for the imput! I know I should probably get more regular trombone lessons. It just seems that in my area I haven't found any trombone teachers willing or able to address what bad habits I'm sure I have directly. I can't really afford a weekly thing with anyone.

I Wish my computer was working (I'm using my cellphone for this) so I could take some skype lessons with Mr. Elliott! Maybe I'll wait till I get my laptop fixed and pm him about a lesson?
ttf_harrison.t.reed
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Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am

Larger piece = better high range?

Post by ttf_harrison.t.reed » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:25 am

If your foot was a size 10, and you only wore size 4 shoes, your ability to run in those shoes would be limited, even if that was the size shoe that the ultramarathoners tend to wear. If you wore a size 10, you would get more out of your run.

Something like that. Rim sizes don't really do anything except hinder you, unless it's the right size, and then it doesn't hinder you. The rim shape, cup, throat, backbore and weight do have real effects, however.
ttf_vegasbound
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Larger piece = better high range?

Post by ttf_vegasbound » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:41 am

Talk to Doug Elliott

Have a Skype lesson with Doug

And take a holiday from the horn at some point this year....  You will come back refreshed and even more concentrated!
ttf_robcat2075
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Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am

Larger piece = better high range?

Post by ttf_robcat2075 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:42 am

Bonus possibility... the slightly different shaped mouthpiece changes the air column enough to let a few more partials resonate that couldn't before.
ttf_Doug Elliott
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Larger piece = better high range?

Post by ttf_Doug Elliott » Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:04 pm

Several of my Skype students use a phone for it.  Works quite well.
ttf_DaCapo
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Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:42 pm

Larger piece = better high range?

Post by ttf_DaCapo » Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:38 pm

Be careful with the margarita's though you might end up picking up your horn when you don't expect it. Image

And take a holiday from the horn at some point this year....  You will come back refreshed and even more concentrated!
[/quote]
ttf_John Beers Jr.
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Larger piece = better high range?

Post by ttf_John Beers Jr. » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:09 pm

Keep in mind that there are options other than rim size to consider, particularly if expanding your high range and endurance are goals.

In the affordable category, Yamaha makes a 51B which is, generally speaking, a 5G-like rim with a shallower and tighter lower section: http://www.hickeys.com/music/brass/trom ... -shank.php

That might be a fun thing to experiment with for your small trombone, if you're looking for a more focused sound while keeping the rim size that makes you happy.

EDIT(For context): I have a Bach 4 rim G cup small-shank mouthpiece, and the intonation, especially in the upper register, becomes really weird if used on a small bore trombone. It works find with a euphonium, but I've had much better luck with shallower cups, despite generally favoring larger rims.
ttf_John Beers Jr.
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Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am

Larger piece = better high range?

Post by ttf_John Beers Jr. » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:09 pm

Keep in mind that there are options other than rim size to consider, particularly if expanding your high range and endurance are goals.

In the affordable category, Yamaha makes a 51B which is, generally speaking, a 5G-like rim with a shallower and tighter lower section: http://www.hickeys.com/music/brass/trom ... -shank.php

That might be a fun thing to experiment with for your small trombone, if you're looking for a more focused sound while keeping the rim size that makes you happy.

EDIT(For context): I have a Bach 4 rim G cup small-shank mouthpiece, and the intonation, especially in the upper register, becomes really weird if used on a small bore trombone. It works find with a euphonium, but I've had much better luck with shallower cups, despite generally favoring larger rims.
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