gold rim

ttf_Nanook
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gold rim

Post by ttf_Nanook » Fri Nov 24, 2017 3:15 pm

So I'm thinking about asking for a gold rimmed mouth piece for Christmas...Bach 6 3/4 from Global Band Supply out of San Jose Calif. It goes for $133 including shipping...Has anyone done business with this outfit? and is this a fair price? Other suggestions of where I might purchase one would be appreciated...

Nanook
ttf_Le.Tromboniste
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gold rim

Post by ttf_Le.Tromboniste » Fri Nov 24, 2017 3:34 pm

Anderson Silver Plating, in Elkhart, IN
ttf_BillO
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gold rim

Post by ttf_BillO » Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:09 pm

Switch to Doug  Elliott mouthpieces.  You can keep your favourite configuration and change rim material at will.
ttf_BGuttman
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gold rim

Post by ttf_BGuttman » Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:50 pm

Quote from: Le.Tromboniste on Nov 24, 2017, 03:34PMAnderson Silver Plating, in Elkhart, IN

I've been under the impression that Anderson doesn't do singles.  You'd have to have a tech send it out with a bunch of others.

There is an outfit called "Goldchops" that plates rims.  Seem to have mixed reviews on here.

Mouthpiece Express offers both gold rim and full gold plate versions for about the same cost.  I've seen them on Ebay for between $125 and $150.  You can get a new 6 3/4 C that way.
ttf_greenbean
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gold rim

Post by ttf_greenbean » Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:19 pm

I would send a mouthpiece that I know I like to Stork for plating...
ttf_Matt K
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gold rim

Post by ttf_Matt K » Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:19 am

Stork, Hammond, and Doing Elliott seem to get consistently good reviews about the quality of their gold plating. They don't do the plating themselves but send batches to be plated and do prep work. I've used Doug in the past and the plating quality was very good. Price should be south of $133 although maybe the price of gold has risen a lot recently.
ttf_Le.Tromboniste
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gold rim

Post by ttf_Le.Tromboniste » Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:29 am

Quote from: BGuttman on Nov 24, 2017, 05:50PMI've been under the impression that Anderson doesn't do singles.  You'd have to have a tech send it out with a bunch of others.

When I was having my mouthpieces plated, I did get a quote from them for a single piece. Of course that was 6 or 7 years ago, so this might have changed.

In retrospect, I should have gone with them rather than try to save money buy having it done locally. The plating I got didn't last. Anderson will strip the existing plating, buff the piece and replate the whole thing. More costly but the plating holds. They will plate over existing finish, but will not offer a warranty on the end result.
ttf_Geezerhorn
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gold rim

Post by ttf_Geezerhorn » Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:00 am

Here's the thing. Say I have a mpc I really like, so I want to have the rim gold-plated. I could simply buy it new that way, but how the heck would I know if I would like it as well as the silver-plated one? Doesn't that fear kinda back us into having one we really like stripped and gold-plated?

...Geezer
ttf_harrison.t.reed
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gold rim

Post by ttf_harrison.t.reed » Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:20 am

Quote from: Geezerhorn on Nov 25, 2017, 06:00AMHere's the thing. Say I have a mpc I really like, so I want to have the rim gold-plated. I could simply buy it new that way, but how the heck would I know if I would like it as well as the silver-plated one? Doesn't that fear kinda back us into having one we really like stripped and gold-plated?

...Geezer

...which also might completely change the mouthpiece.
ttf_Le.Tromboniste
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gold rim

Post by ttf_Le.Tromboniste » Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:27 am

Quote from: harrison.t.reed on Nov 25, 2017, 07:20AM...which also might completely change the mouthpiece.

True.

John, is there a particular reason you want the rim gold plated? (also, rim only, not rim and cup?)
ttf_Nanook
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gold rim

Post by ttf_Nanook » Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:30 am

Quote from: Geezerhorn on Nov 25, 2017, 06:00AMHere's the thing. Say I have a mpc I really like, so I want to have the rim gold-plated. I could simply buy it new that way, but how the heck would I know if I would like it as well as the silver-plated one? Doesn't that fear kinda back us into having one we really like stripped and gold-plated?

...Geezer

I get it, but I've only been on this MP for a little over a year, and I don't think I'm really good enough yet to tell the small difference...I do like a slippery mouth piece, and I heard gold rims are a bit more slippery... I sent an e mail off to Anderson, they seem to know their stuff, I'll let you guys know what they say about doing a single MP...Also my wife is thrilled that I asked for something for Christmas, and I wouldn't want to disappoint the wife...I'm  doing the cup also

Nanook
ttf_Geezerhorn
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gold rim

Post by ttf_Geezerhorn » Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:55 am

If someone has been on the horn for 20 years or more, then a different mpc of the exact same size might have this, that or another thing "wrong" with it. But for us lessers, we would probably just make the adjustment and honk on. Maybe same for one we have & like that gets stripped & re-plated.

Anyway, if Nanook thinks he likes the slippy feel of a gold rim, what the heck. After all, he is doing it for his wife. What a guy!

Thank you! You have inspired me! MY wife is getting a new laptop for gaming but I - like you - didn't want anything. However, I just ordered myself a Bach 12 rim gold-plated mpc for use with my newly-refinished King 2B. I don't care much one way or the other about the slippy feel of a gold rim. I just wanted it so that - with the newly refinished King 2B and black leather hand grips, it will look totally bad-ass. I'm going for the "look".  Image

...Geezer
ttf_Nanook
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gold rim

Post by ttf_Nanook » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:11 pm

I heard back from Anderson, here's what they sent me....I decided to go with Mouthpiece express $117 including new bach MP and shipping and tax....



Good afternoon John
    The starting estimate to strip , buff , silver plate with gold rim & cup
is $ 115 plus shipping & handling.
The turn around time is 2 - 4 weeks depending on in house work load &
holidays.
We will be doing shop maintenance the last week of Dec. thru Jan. 2 .
We will still be here to accept boxes and we open them in the order they are
received.
Just make sure to put your contact info in the box along with what you want
done and ship here to;
Anderson Silver Plating
541 Industrial Parkway
Elkhart IN 46516
Thanks Tony
ASP

ttf_Le.Tromboniste
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gold rim

Post by ttf_Le.Tromboniste » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:10 pm

Quote from: Nanook on Nov 27, 2017, 01:11PMI heard back from Anderson, here's what they went me....I decided to go with Mouthpiece express $117 including new bach MP and shipping and tax....



Good afternoon John
    The starting estimate to strip , buff , silver plate with gold rim & cup
is $ 115 plus shipping & handling.
The turn around time is 2 - 4 weeks depending on in house work load &
holidays.
We will be doing shop maintenance the last week of Dec. thru Jan. 2 .
We will still be here to accept boxes and we open them in the order they are
received.
Just make sure to put your contact info in the box along with what you want
done and ship here to;
Anderson Silver Plating
541 Industrial Parkway
Elkhart IN 46516
Thanks Tony
ASP


Interesting! I just found the quote they sent me when I was having my stuff plated. August 2011, $125. Oddly, their price went down, after 6 years. Surprising
ttf_anonymous
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gold rim

Post by ttf_anonymous » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:43 pm

Interesting thread... Just last week I decided to re-plate and put some gold down.

There's a place in SLC, UT that has a reputation for good plating. And they plate mouthpieces all the time. I believe they are the sub-contractor to some other online companies that send them in.

I had three 6 1/2AL's laying around, so last week I went in and spent 30 minutes talking about the thickness of the sliver plate they'll put down and the thickness of the gold that will go on top of the silver --as well as where I wanted it masked.

Economy of scale, to strip, buff/polish, re-silver plate and then gold plate the rim/bowl it was $110 for two. And $150 for 3. He said all the time is in the buffing/prep work and if they are set up to do two, it is easier to do a 3rd.

It'll be interesting to see how they look and feel when the come back.

All that said, there's nothing like the certainty in buying one new, from a source where you know what you're going to get.
ttf_Geezerhorn
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gold rim

Post by ttf_Geezerhorn » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:47 am

I don't blame anyone for getting the best price quote they can get. Personally, I don't know about switching to a gold-plated rim. I might not like it, so I prefer to take it one mpc at a time.

...Geezer
ttf_BGuttman
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gold rim

Post by ttf_BGuttman » Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:36 am

Quote from: Wasatch Oz on Nov 27, 2017, 08:43PMInteresting thread... Just last week I decided to re-plate and put some gold down.

There's a place in SLC, UT that has a reputation for good plating. And they plate mouthpieces all the time. I believe they are the sub-contractor to some other online companies that send them in.

I had three 6 1/2AL's laying around, so last week I went in and spent 30 minutes talking about the thickness of the sliver plate they'll put down and the thickness of the gold that will go on top of the silver --as well as where I wanted it masked.

Economy of scale, to strip, buff/polish, re-silver plate and then gold plate the rim/bowl it was $110 for two. And $150 for 3. He said all the time is in the buffing/prep work and if they are set up to do two, it is easier to do a 3rd.

It'll be interesting to see how they look and feel when the come back.

All that said, there's nothing like the certainty in buying one new, from a source where you know what you're going to get.

I needed the services of a local gold plater for my job and decided to see if he could do mouthpieces.  He told me his shop had a $150 minimum, but they would be $45 each.  So one, two, or three would be $150 while four would be $180.  I didn't have enough to make three, much less four so I let that one go.  He did a nice job on the electrodes I needed, though.
ttf_Wasatch Oz
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gold rim

Post by ttf_Wasatch Oz » Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:46 am

Quote from: BGuttman on Nov 28, 2017, 08:36AMI needed the services of a local gold plater for my job and decided to see if he could do mouthpieces.  He told me his shop had a $150 minimum, but they would be $45 each.  So one, two, or three would be $150 while four would be $180.  I didn't have enough to make three, much less four so I let that one go.  He did a nice job on the electrodes I needed, though.

Yeah, I didn't think about a minimum, and of course most shops will have one. That makes it even more challenging to get just one done, locally.
ttf_BillO
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gold rim

Post by ttf_BillO » Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:16 pm

Quote from: Geezerhorn on Nov 28, 2017, 07:47AMI don't blame anyone for getting the best price quote they can get. Personally, I don't know about switching to a gold-plated rim. I might not like it, so I prefer to take it one mpc at a time.

...Geezer
Try one Geezer.  They are pretty nice.  For me they are, umm ... 30% better than silver.  Not enough for me to part with the extra for a new gold plated piece, but I certainly favor them if fortune provides me with a choice.
ttf_Geezerhorn
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gold rim

Post by ttf_Geezerhorn » Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:01 am

Quote from: BillO on Nov 28, 2017, 08:16PMTry one Geezer.  They are pretty nice.  For me they are, umm ... 30% better than silver.  Not enough for me to part with the extra for a new gold plated piece, but I certainly favor them if fortune provides me with a choice.

I have a Bach 12 on order. I should get it in a couple of weeks. If I like it, then next up would be a Bach 7. I like switching rim sizes. When I do, it feels like my chops are on holiday from the previous rim size; like switching from loafers to running shoes and back. Both feel good, but it's nice to have different choices for different occasions. Same with horns.

I am optimistic I will like the gold rim on a Bach b/c I liked it on a mpc from a different manufacturer; I just didn't like the mpc. Not much for me to go on in making this decision, but enough. AND I really like the look of the gold-rimmed mpcs. That has to count for something! lol

...Geezer
ttf_Steven
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gold rim

Post by ttf_Steven » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:02 am

Quote from: BillO on Nov 28, 2017, 08:16PMTry one Geezer.  They are pretty nice.  For me they are, umm ... 30% better than silver.  Not enough for me to part with the extra for a new gold plated piece, but I certainly favor them if fortune provides me with a choice.

This is almost exactly my thoughts on the subject.  (I would need to calibrate the 30%, but it sounds pretty close.)  I love the feel of my gold plated  Denis Wick 4ABL, but if I had to replace the mouthpiece, I don't know how much extra I would be willing to pay for the gold plate. 
ttf_Nanook
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gold rim

Post by ttf_Nanook » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:28 am

Quote from: Wasatch Oz on Nov 27, 2017, 08:43PMInteresting thread... Just last week I decided to re-plate and put some gold down.

There's a place in SLC, UT that has a reputation for good plating. And they plate mouthpieces all the time. I believe they are the sub-contractor to some other online companies that send them in.

I had three 6 1/2AL's laying around, so last week I went in and spent 30 minutes talking about the thickness of the sliver plate they'll put down and the thickness of the gold that will go on top of the silver --as well as where I wanted it masked.

Economy of scale, to strip, buff/polish, re-silver plate and then gold plate the rim/bowl it was $110 for two. And $150 for 3. He said all the time is in the buffing/prep work and if they are set up to do two, it is easier to do a 3rd.



It'll be interesting to see how they look and feel when the come back.

All that said, there's nothing like the certainty in buying one new, from a source where you know what you're going to get.

If the shop does a good job, it would be interesting to consider pooling our collective resources and send some MP's to him as a group to get the $50 per MP price...I'd be willing to do that for sure...Tough to beat that price...
Nanook
ttf_Wasatch Oz
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gold rim

Post by ttf_Wasatch Oz » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:34 am

Quote from: Nanook on Nov 29, 2017, 10:28AMIf the shop does a good job, it would be interesting to consider pooling our collective resources and send some MP's to him as a group to get the $50 per MP price...I'd be willing to do that for sure...Tough to beat that price...
Nanook

For sure. Once they're back, I'll post up some pics and use them for a while --to see if there are any issues. If all goes well, I was thinking the same thing. I have a couple local friends that sound interested as well. It doesn't sound like it be difficult to get another batch together.
ttf_BGuttman
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gold rim

Post by ttf_BGuttman » Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:11 am

Gold plating is nice for a number of reasons:

1.  Some are allergic to silver and the gold may be a better alternative.  Stainless Steel and Titanium may be better still.

2.  There is the "bling" aspect.  It sure looks nice.  A gold rim on a silver cup is especially snazzy.

3.  Gold is more "slippery" than silver.  If you find the silver mouthpiece is "locking" your embouchure you may find the gold is less obstructive.  Note that Lexan is even less slippery than silver.

4.  Gold seems to attract less biomass than silver.  The mouthpiece stays cleaner.

Does it affect playing?  Maybe in respect to #3 above, but probably for no other reason.
ttf_Geezerhorn
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gold rim

Post by ttf_Geezerhorn » Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:47 am

Got my new Bach 12 gold-rimmed mpc today. Now this bad-boy is stylin'!

Image

I'll give the new mpc a test blow this evening. If all is well, one down and one to go.

As I think Bruce mentioned, how you feel about your equipment can translate into how well you can play on it. Some guys like vintage horns with a ton of patina and a few well-placed dings. I think there is a lot to be said for coaxing beautiful sounds out of "ugly" equipment, same as can be said about liking shiny, flashy equipment.

I don't know if the slippy feeling of a gold-rimmed mpc will do anything for me or not, but I know I like how the rascal looks!

And if it makes me feel good, then maybe it will be a better interface between me and my horn than a "plain" one of the same size, etc.

...Geezer
ttf_Geezerhorn
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gold rim

Post by ttf_Geezerhorn » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:10 pm

Okay. It's fine (see above). But there is a slight variation between my silver 12 and this new gold-rimmed 12. I don't see it as a big deal; I just made the adjustment to it and off I went. However, those of you who have THE perfect mpc and will live & die by it, might take a risk by sending off for a new one of it's kind in gold-rim. Just sayin'...

But I personally didn't see any advantage to the gold rim on the first blow. None at all. I mean, other than it looks cool. That's worth something. Then again, I'm not a million-dollar player, either...

...Geezer
ttf_Wasatch Oz
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gold rim

Post by ttf_Wasatch Oz » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:23 pm

Quote from: Geezerhorn on Nov 30, 2017, 05:10PMOkay. It's fine (see above). But there is a slight variation between my silver 12 and this new gold-rimmed 12. I don't see it as a big deal; I just made the adjustment to it and off I went. However, those of you who have THE perfect mpc and will live & die by it, might take a risk by sending off for a new one of it's kind in gold-rim. Just sayin'...

But I personally didn't see any advantage to the gold rim on the first blow. None at all. I mean, other than it looks cool. That's worth something. Then again, I'm not a million-dollar player, either...

...Geezer

My short previous experience with a gold rim was that it felt softer/smoother. It seemed to result in better stamina.
ttf_Geezerhorn
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gold rim

Post by ttf_Geezerhorn » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:48 pm

Quote from: Wasatch Oz on Nov 30, 2017, 05:23PMMy short previous experience with a gold rim was that it felt softer/smoother. It seemed to result in better stamina.


Okay. That will be something to watch for as it gets more play-time. There probably isn't a 'bone-player alive who wouldn't want more endurance.

...Geezer
ttf_BillO
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gold rim

Post by ttf_BillO » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:21 pm

Quote from: Geezerhorn on Nov 30, 2017, 10:47AMGot my new Bach 12 gold-rimmed mpc today. Now this bad-boy is stylin'!

Image

I'll give the new mpc a test blow this evening. If all is well, one down and one to go.

As I think Bruce mentioned, how you feel about your equipment can translate into how well you can play on it. Some guys like vintage horns with a ton of patina and a few well-placed dings. I think there is a lot to be said for coaxing beautiful sounds out of "ugly" equipment, same as can be said about liking shiny, flashy equipment.

I don't know if the slippy feeling of a gold-rimmed mpc will do anything for me or not, but I know I like how the rascal looks!

And if it makes me feel good, then maybe it will be a better interface between me and my horn than a "plain" one of the same size, etc.

...Geezer
Geezer, after you've done you exercises on IGSOY, you might want to put in a little practice on taking photos where something ... anything ... is in focus. Image

Does look sweet though!
ttf_Geezerhorn
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gold rim

Post by ttf_Geezerhorn » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:12 pm

Quote from: BillO on Dec 01, 2017, 01:21PMGeezer, after you've done you exercises on IGSOY, you might want to put in a little practice on taking photos where something ... anything ... is in focus. Image

Does look sweet though!

Aww shucks. I didn't know anyone cared!

Here's a more in-focus pic:

Image

A Bach 7 gold-rimmed mpc is now on order for my King 3B/F, as well as a used CL4 for my 4B/F as a test. It will take me a few months to figure out if it's a keeper or not and if so, I might spring for a new gold one for my birthday. Meanwhile, Merry Christmas to me!

I hope those who have a gold-rimmed mpc of any size on order will be happy with it - for whatever reason they have!

...Geezer
ttf_BillO
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Post by ttf_BillO » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:53 pm

Quote from: Geezerhorn on Dec 01, 2017, 02:12PMAww shucks. I didn't know anyone cared!

Here's a more in-focus pic:

Image

A Bach 7 gold-rimmed mpc is now on order for my King 3B/F, as well as a used CL5 for my 4B/F as a test. It will take me a few months to figure out if it's a keeper or not and if so, I might spring for a new gold one for my birthday. Meanwhile, Merry Christmas to me!

I hope those who have a gold-rimmed mpc of any size on order will be happy with it - for whatever reason they have!

...Geezer;:
Much better.  That 2B looks like it's on cloud 9.

ttf_JazzPro
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Post by ttf_JazzPro » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:46 am

If I had the choice, I'd go Anderson Silver  Plating. I've used them for a mouthpiece before. Higher quality of work than  mouthpiece Express. I have a  mouthpiece from Mouthpiece Express and the gold plating wore off rather quickly. In fact, it is so faded now you'd never know it was gold plated.

 Even better is Doug Elliott. I don't know who he uses, but he has the best gold plating I've ever seen.
ttf_Nanook
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Post by ttf_Nanook » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:38 am

Quote from: Le.Tromboniste on Nov 27, 2017, 06:10PMInteresting! I just found the quote they sent me when I was having my stuff plated. August 2011, $125. Oddly, their price went down, after 6 years. Surprising

Gold was about 20% higher in 2011 than it is now. I'm betting that is the reason...Just a guess...
Nanook
ttf_mwpfoot
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Post by ttf_mwpfoot » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:49 am

I did it to have a pretty mouthpiece.

 Image
ttf_Le.Tromboniste
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Post by ttf_Le.Tromboniste » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:56 pm

Quote from: Nanook on Dec 05, 2017, 10:38AMGold was about 20% higher in 2011 than it is now. I'm betting that is the reason...Just a guess...
Nanook

That would make lots of sense. So their processing cost went up but the good value went down more so the total is a bit less.
ttf_Wasatch Oz
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gold rim

Post by ttf_Wasatch Oz » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:37 pm

The plated mouthpieces came back today. They turned out nice. I'll post one of them for sale. But some interesting info; Industry standard for gold plated jewelry is supposed to be 7 millionths of an inch. They often have cheap gold plated jewelry come in to be re-plated and they measure as little as 3 millionths of an inch.

As you can see from this work order, they put down 20 millionths of an inch of gold on the rim of these. They're confident this gold isn't going to wear off.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
ttf_Doug Elliott
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gold rim

Post by ttf_Doug Elliott » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:36 pm

I predict it won't last very long at all.  That amount is fine for jewelry but nowhere near enough for something like a mouthpiece that sees daily use and wear.

Not even close.
ttf_Wasatch Oz
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Post by ttf_Wasatch Oz » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:41 am

Quote from: Doug Elliott on Dec 12, 2017, 11:36PMI predict it won't last very long at all.  That amount is fine for jewelry but nowhere near enough for something like a mouthpiece that sees daily use and wear.

Not even close.

If you have some data it would be great, otherwise it sounds like opinion? Any thickness can be specified for plating. In talking to the professionals, there are some mouthpiece rims washed at 3 millionths, most are likely plated at 7 millionths. The 20 millionths they suggested should last the life of the player. (20 millionths is considered thick enough to last a lifetime of daily use on watch.)

All that said, if we can learn that most rims are plated at a different thickness, that's what I'll go with. But I understand that anything over 20 millionths begins to noticeably change the dimensions of a part.
ttf_Nanook
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gold rim

Post by ttf_Nanook » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:59 am

Quote from: Wasatch Oz on Dec 12, 2017, 10:37PMThe plated mouthpieces came back today. They turned out nice. I'll post one of them for sale. But some interesting info; Industry standard for gold plated jewelry is supposed to be 7 millionths of an inch. They often have cheap gold plated jewelry come in to be re-plated and they measure as little as 3 millionths of an inch.

As you can see from this work order, they put down 20 millionths of an inch of gold on the rim of these. They're confident this gold isn't going to wear off.



Please keep us posted...This could be a good resource for members in the future...

Nanook
ttf_Wasatch Oz
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gold rim

Post by ttf_Wasatch Oz » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:41 am

Quote from: Nanook on Dec 13, 2017, 06:59AMPlease keep us posted...This could be a good resource for members in the future...

Nanook

For sure. I played on one last night for quintet. It feels soft & smooth compared to my old silver. I got through a long and strenuous rehearsal feeling good. It would be tough to quantify any endurance increase. But I will say that my lips recovered more quickly afterwards. I didn't have the same irritated chapped feeling I always have after a long session. Plus it looks really nice.
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gold rim

Post by ttf_Doug Elliott » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:55 am

Well I have more than an opinion, I've been in the business a long time and I've already been through this.
For clarity, the number you're talking about is expressed several different ways, and the durability depends on what else is added to the gold.

20 millionths
.000020 of an inch
20 micro-inches
.5 micron

That thickness is the minimum that can legally be called Gold Plate.

The opinion I do have is that for mouthpieces, gold should be 24k with nothing added because of allergy issues. Chances are the plating you're getting isn't 24k.

ttf_Wasatch Oz
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gold rim

Post by ttf_Wasatch Oz » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:54 am

Quote from: Doug Elliott on Dec 13, 2017, 07:55AMWell I have more than an opinion, I've been in the business a long time and I've already been through this.
For clarity, the number you're talking about is expressed several different ways, and the durability depends on what else is added to the gold.

20 millionths
.000020 of an inch
20 micro-inches
.5 micron

That thickness is the minimum that can legally be called Gold Plate.

The opinion I do have is that for mouthpieces, gold should be 24k with nothing added because of allergy issues. Chances are the plating you're getting isn't 24k.


Ah! It sounds like some assumptions are being made. The first thing this company states on their gold plating services is "We offer 24k plating". That was the first thing I discussed with them. So these are 24k --which not every shop can do, from what I understand.

7 micro-inches is the minimum to be called electroplate and 20 is the minimum to be called plated. Doing some research, is seems that 20 is a common thickness for gold that will be exposed to repeated wear.

I can have them plate as thick as I ask. It's not much more expensive to go thicker. I'm just curious if you have any data on how thick the gold is on "factory" mouthpieces, or by other reputable mouthpiece platers. It seems to be a bit of a guarded secret. Likely because most local places try to get away with the jewelry plating standard of 7 micro-inches.

We'll see how well 20 micro-inches wear. I've heard that the 3 micro-inch gold washes some companies use when "plating" mouthpieces, will wear off after a month or two. 7 micro-inches I bet is what most companies will use. These at 20 I suspect will fare very well. But time will tell.
ttf_Doug Elliott
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gold rim

Post by ttf_Doug Elliott » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:11 am

"We offer 24k plating" sounds like you have to ask for it.

Do you KNOW that's what you got?
ttf_BGuttman
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gold rim

Post by ttf_BGuttman » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:19 am

Back in my circuit board days we made boards for Western Electric.  They had a rather strict standard: 100 microinches of gold over 300 microinches of nickel on all gold fingers.  Western Electric used to require their product to last 40 years in rough service.

Later customers would use 25 microinches of "hard gold" (primarily gold with a trace of nickel or cobalt).  The nickel requirement was reduced to 100 and later 50 microinches.

Surface mount technology requires the gold to last through one soldering cycle (it dissolves into the connection) and thus you can get away with 10 microinches or even less.

Hewlett-Packard, in their glory days, used to like the circuit boards to look expensive and we had to plate 5 millionths of gold on all the circuitry.  Don't know if it did anything for life, but the boards sure looked spiffy.

When I worked at the lab I never had an opportunity to measure gold thickness on a Wick mouthpiece, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was in the range of 25-50 microinches.  They used to have a peeling problem probably because they didn't use proper plating techniques (barrier layer, strike, then full plate).
ttf_Wasatch Oz
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Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am

gold rim

Post by ttf_Wasatch Oz » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:00 am

Quote from: Doug Elliott on Dec 13, 2017, 10:11AM"We offer 24k plating" sounds like you have to ask for it.

Do you KNOW that's what you got?

Well, as I mentioned, that was the first thing we discussed when I went in. These must be done in 24k. Reply; Yes, that's how we do all mouthpieces.

That said, anytime you pay for a service, there has to be some level of trust. When you change your oil and ask for a synthetic, do you test the oil to make sure they used synthetic, or do you trust that they did what you asked?

I believe pawn shops have a test that can tell the purity of a gold, but I think it's slightly destructive. It would be interesting to do...
ttf_Wasatch Oz
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Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am

gold rim

Post by ttf_Wasatch Oz » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:05 am

Quote from: BGuttman on Dec 13, 2017, 10:19AMBack in my circuit board days we made boards for Western Electric.  They had a rather strict standard: 100 microinches of gold over 300 microinches of nickel on all gold fingers.  Western Electric used to require their product to last 40 years in rough service.

Later customers would use 25 microinches of "hard gold" (primarily gold with a trace of nickel or cobalt).  The nickel requirement was reduced to 100 and later 50 microinches.

Surface mount technology requires the gold to last through one soldering cycle (it dissolves into the connection) and thus you can get away with 10 microinches or even less.

Hewlett-Packard, in their glory days, used to like the circuit boards to look expensive and we had to plate 5 millionths of gold on all the circuitry.  Don't know if it did anything for life, but the boards sure looked spiffy.

When I worked at the lab I never had an opportunity to measure gold thickness on a Wick mouthpiece, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was in the range of 25-50 microinches.  They used to have a peeling problem probably because they didn't use proper plating techniques (barrier layer, strike, then full plate).

Nice! There so much assumed about plating, gold in particular. Hearing real-world examples in practice is neat! I really want to know what thickness the factory gold mouthpieces are. A new project!

The Trombone forum deserves to know exactly how thick the gold is on factory plated mouthpieces. Step one, obtain a factory plated MP.
ttf_Nanook
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gold rim

Post by ttf_Nanook » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:05 am

Stay on this W.O. it's a topic worth pursuing...when I mentioned to my instructor that I was going to get a gold rimmed mouth piece he said that it wears off pretty quickly...I got the impression that he didn't think it was worth the money, nor did he notice any real benefits in playing...I've talked to some other players who noticed playing benefits....I'm anxious to form my own opinion.

Nanook
ttf_savio
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gold rim

Post by ttf_savio » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:37 am

My experience is there isn't any difference in sound. Gold can be more slippery but I dont notice much difference in feel either. It looks cool but gold or silver is the same for me. For others it might be different?

ttf_Geezerhorn
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gold rim

Post by ttf_Geezerhorn » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:38 am

Quote from: Nanook on Dec 14, 2017, 07:05AMStay on this W.O. it's a topic worth pursuing...when I mentioned to my instructor that I was going to get a gold rimmed mouth piece he said that it wears off pretty quickly...I got the impression that he didn't think it was worth the money, nor did he notice any real benefits in playing...I've talked to some other players who noticed playing benefits....I'm anxious to form my own opinion.

Nanook

I think that is admirable.

Myself, I don't really care how long it lasts on the playing contact surfaces. It's not a deal-breaker for me if it wears off sooner rather than later. As long as it looks pretty on the outside while I'm playing, that's all I really care about.

I am currently juggling 4 different sized rims & cup depths on a daily basis, so I doubt if I'll be able to notice any material playing difference in a gold rim vs a standard rim.

Just out of curiosity, let us know if you do.

...Geezer
ttf_harrison.t.reed
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gold rim

Post by ttf_harrison.t.reed » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:49 am

FWIW, good gold plate on a rim doesn't wear off quickly. Doug Elliott rims have pretty thick gold plating that lasts. You can tell it's thick because of the feel and the color, which is not bright (no silver is showing through). Griego gold plated my 1C and I've had that for three years -- only the shank shows signs of wear.

On the other hand, I've seen cheapo gold plating on bach mouthpieces that wears away in less than a year. This is the kind that is bright yellow when you get it.
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