Tricks for locating Wedge mouthpieces correctly?

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ttf_Bleek
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Tricks for locating Wedge mouthpieces correctly?

Post by ttf_Bleek » Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:43 pm

Hi all. I was wanting to see if any of the Wedge mouthpiece users have come up with good solutions to perfectly line up their mouthpieces with their embouchure?
I play Wedge rims on Doug Elliott setups and a Wedge 1 1/2. At the moment I mark the shank with a black texta and line it up with a line I then put on the shank or  leadpipe top. It works really well but has to be constantly redone as it scrapes off after a while.
Anyone come up with a better solution?
ttf_Ellrod
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Tricks for locating Wedge mouthpieces correctly?

Post by ttf_Ellrod » Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:25 pm

There should be a dot etched into the side of the rim. The dot should be at 6:00 (ie down) when you're playing.
ttf_Bleek
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Tricks for locating Wedge mouthpieces correctly?

Post by ttf_Bleek » Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:32 pm

Yes I understand that. I’ve been playing them for about 6 months.
I am talking about on gigs when there is no mirror around to check, about putting the mouthpiece in the instrument so that it lines up perfectly with your nose/chin. Because in the horn it’s an odd angle.
ttf_fsung
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Tricks for locating Wedge mouthpieces correctly?

Post by ttf_fsung » Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:57 pm

I've never had a problem orienting the mouthpiece properly strictly by feel.

(But maybe that's because I'm Chinese.)  Image  Image Image


ttf_Andrew Meronek
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Tricks for locating Wedge mouthpieces correctly?

Post by ttf_Andrew Meronek » Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:25 pm

For me, the mouthpiece allows a bit of variance on the alignment just fine. One thing to keep in mind is that the best position for Wedges may not be vertical, depending on the person, but may be a bit offset in one direction or the other.
ttf_Matt K
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Tricks for locating Wedge mouthpieces correctly?

Post by ttf_Matt K » Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:58 pm

WHen I was trying the wedge rims on Doug's cups, I used teflon tape to keep them in place. That includes the threads for the cup and shank as well as a little on the end of the shank itself to keep it inpalce. Also the threads on the leadpipe too. Just not too much or else its hard to get off (and on!)
ttf_KingMan
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Tricks for locating Wedge mouthpieces correctly?

Post by ttf_KingMan » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:03 am

I put the mouthpiece in the horn and align it as best I can. Then I play a few notes and with the mouthpiece still on my lips, I place my right forefinger at the top of the MP in the middle of my upper lip. I pull the horn and away with my finger still on the MP and see if it's on the dot. If not, I rotate the MP and repeat until the alignment puts the dot under my finger. I recheck a few times during a performance or rehearsal in case I've inadvertently rotated the horn a tad.

Joel
ttf_cigmar
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Tricks for locating Wedge mouthpieces correctly?

Post by ttf_cigmar » Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:39 am

Quote from: Matt K on Oct 15, 2017, 05:58PMWHen I was trying the wedge rims on Doug's cups, I used teflon tape to keep them in place. That includes the threads for the cup and shank as well as a little on the end of the shank itself to keep it inpalce. Also the threads on the leadpipe too. Just not too much or else its hard to get off (and on!)

Is there a particular reason you do this relating perhaps to playing characteristics?
ttf_Matt K
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Tricks for locating Wedge mouthpieces correctly?

Post by ttf_Matt K » Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:49 am

Quote from: cigmar on Yesterday at 05:39 AMIs there a particular reason you do this relating perhaps to playing characteristics?

The threads areprine to moving while you play. Especially the shank. Normally it's not a problem at all but when placement is important it can be distracting to find the rim has moved when you remove it from your face (rests etc).
ttf_cigmar
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Tricks for locating Wedge mouthpieces correctly?

Post by ttf_cigmar » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:04 am

Quote from: Matt K on Yesterday at 06:49 AMThe threads areprine to moving while you play. Especially the shank. Normally it's not a problem at all but when placement is important it can be distracting to find the rim has moved when you remove it from your face (rests etc).

Huh...never had that problem.

ttf_Matt K
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Tricks for locating Wedge mouthpieces correctly?

Post by ttf_Matt K » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:37 am

Quote from: cigmar on Yesterday at 07:04 AMHuh...never had that problem.


It wouldn't be a problem on a normal wedge. Or if the parts are stuck together. But between the screw I'm leadpipe,shank, cup, and rim theres bound to be something that moved!
ttf_cigmar
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Tricks for locating Wedge mouthpieces correctly?

Post by ttf_cigmar » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:04 am

Quote from: Matt K on Yesterday at 07:37 AMIt wouldn't be a problem on a normal wedge. Or if the parts are stuck together. But between the screw I'm leadpipe,shank, cup, and rim theres bound to be something that moved!

I was referring to a regular DE piece.  I'm wondering though if the teflon might affect the playing characteristics somehow.  I've found by slipping an o-ring on to where the cup meets the shank seems to improve the slotting. 
ttf_Matt K
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Tricks for locating Wedge mouthpieces correctly?

Post by ttf_Matt K » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:23 am

Quote from: cigmar on Yesterday at 08:04 AMI was referring to a regular DE piece.  I'm wondering though if the teflon might affect the playing characteristics somehow.  I've found by slipping an o-ring on to where the cup meets the shank seems to improve the slotting. 

With a normal piece the change in angle doesn't matter. It's very, very slight. But on a wedge it makes a big difference because of how different the shape and width of the rim is.

I haven't noticed any difference in Teflon (it's very thin) and I've been using it on and off for almost a decade now. If you haven't noticed it, you probably don't need it. If you put the rim on your face when playing and tilt your head sideways most of my Elliott pieces will shift with my head a little. Again, not a huge deal. I used the Teflon prior to trying the wedge for the opposite reason: to keep the pieces from being stuck together.

Basically, Teflon keeps threads movable but also let's them move slightly less freely. Really what you'd want on any set of threads for an instrument. Ymmv though
ttf_cigmar
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Tricks for locating Wedge mouthpieces correctly?

Post by ttf_cigmar » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:40 am

Quote from: Matt K on Yesterday at 08:23 AMWith a normal piece the change in angle doesn't matter. It's very, very slight. But on a wedge it makes a big difference because of how different the shape and width of the rim is.

Understood.


Basically, Teflon keeps threads movable but also let's them move slightly less freely. Really what you'd want on any set of threads for an instrument. Ymmv though

I find putting some Hetman's tuning slide lube accomplishes the same thing.

If you get a chance, try the o-ring thing I mentioned.  Would be interested in hearing your take on it.
ttf_Bleek
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Tricks for locating Wedge mouthpieces correctly?

Post by ttf_Bleek » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:04 pm

Thanks guys. Matt yes I also have a bit of Teflon tape on my joins as well. For me it’s just so things don’t ‘freeze’ into place and I can screw it  apart if needed without using pliers or a wooden mallet to loosen.

As for the positioning of the Wedge rim I think Dr Dave says there is a 10% variation possible on its  orientation. But to be honest it works for me straight up and down. So I like to just put the mouthpiece in the horn in the same spot every time and not worry about how off center it is. So unless something better comes up I’ll keep lining up my two Sharpie marks.

It would be great for Dave to come up with a locking sleeve system or something. On trumpet it’s easy to align the rim properly, it’s up and down. But on trombone it’s a strange angle with no real visual reference on the horn. And each horn is held at a different angle depending on trigger/no trigger etc.

ttf_cigmar
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Tricks for locating Wedge mouthpieces correctly?

Post by ttf_cigmar » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:25 pm

Quote from: Bleek on Yesterday at 01:04 PM But on trombone it’s a strange angle with no real visual reference on the horn. And each horn is held at a different angle depending on trigger/no trigger etc.


And if you happen to hold the horn at a slightly different angle the next time you put it on your face after coming in off rests I imagine it would mess up the whole alignment thing and consequently the playing.  Yes/No???
ttf_cigmar
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Tricks for locating Wedge mouthpieces correctly?

Post by ttf_cigmar » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:25 pm

Quote from: Bleek on Yesterday at 01:04 PM But on trombone it’s a strange angle with no real visual reference on the horn. And each horn is held at a different angle depending on trigger/no trigger etc.


And if you happen to hold the horn at a slightly different angle the next time you put it on your face after coming in off rests I imagine it would mess up the whole alignment thing and consequently the playing.  Yes/No???
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