Small bore mouthpiece most like the Alain Trudel ?

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ttf_anonymous
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Small bore mouthpiece most like the Alain Trudel ?

Post by ttf_anonymous »

I use an Alain Trudel mouthpiece on my large bore Yamaha Xeno,and it seems to be a good fit for me. Unfortunately they don't make one for a small bore trombone.I recently acquired  an old Olds Super that I want use for principal orchestra playing but am having a tough time finding a mouthpiece I like for it. Anyone know what small bore mouthpiece is similar to the Alain Trudel???
ttf_Full Pedal Trombonist
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Small bore mouthpiece most like the Alain Trudel ?

Post by ttf_Full Pedal Trombonist »

Quote from: avantrombone on Sep 25, 2017, 03:39PMI use an Alain Trudel mouthpiece on my large bore Yamaha Xeno,and it seems to be a good fit for me. Unfortunately they don't make one for a small bore trombone.I recently acquired  an old Olds Super that I want use for principal orchestra playing but am having a tough time finding a mouthpiece I like for it. Anyone know what small bore mouthpiece is similar to the Alain Trudel???

I would suggest a 99.5 Doug Elliott rim with an Olds sized shank and an appropriate cup for what you want. Maybe a D.

Or maybe a Trudel replica series could be put on a lathe?
ttf_Ellrod
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Small bore mouthpiece most like the Alain Trudel ?

Post by ttf_Ellrod »

Yam 48?
ttf_Matt K
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Small bore mouthpiece most like the Alain Trudel ?

Post by ttf_Matt K »

In the event you can't find anything, you have a few options.

Firstly, you could get another one and have someone trim down the shank on it until it fits in a small bore horn.  There might not be enough metal to make that work though.  If that is the case you could have someone make a shank for it and thread the cup for that particular shank.  That may be the best option in the sense that someone like Doug Elliott (one of the other forum members) might be able to make the shank work well for the small bore instead of merely fitting in the shank.  I could forsee even if you got #1 to work, that it might be a little bit peculiar on a smaller horn, especially an Olds Super.  

Another potentially good option would be to either get another rim or have someone duplicate the shape of the rim and then put it on an underpart that works well with the super.  I've kind of gone down this route. I had an Elliott rim I really like that I've had put on a number of underparts.  A threaded Trudel rim would fit on Doug's LT series, and you could get any number of cups and shanks to fit what you're looking for.  From what I can tell, its around a 51Dish depth, which is fairly deep. Would be Doug's I series.  You might find that something a little shallower on the smaller horn would work well especially paired with that rim. At least that's my2c.
ttf_Rockymountaintrombone
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Small bore mouthpiece most like the Alain Trudel ?

Post by ttf_Rockymountaintrombone »

I think a Yamaha 48 or some kind of Bach 6.5 (A, AL, AM) would be close, as would the Elliott 99 rim. If you want a shallower, brighter sounding mpc., a Bach 6.75 C, or a Wick 7CS - Wick 6BS if you want the opposite. The various clones of a Bach 6.5 (Faxx, Blessing, Getzen, etc.) might work as well.

If you're near a large music store, you might be able to try a few of these out, side by side to pick the best fit for you.

Jim Scott
ttf_Ellrod
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Small bore mouthpiece most like the Alain Trudel ?

Post by ttf_Ellrod »

Yam makes something called a 48D.
ttf_modelerdc
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Small bore mouthpiece most like the Alain Trudel ?

Post by ttf_modelerdc »

At one time I had a one of the Alain Trudel mouthpieces here, and the rim is the same size as the Yamaha 48, and as I recall I had no trouble going from the Trudel to the 48 and back. The 48 is good for most small bores, the 48D a little deeper, better for me on small shank Euphonium, and the 48A has the same rim for alto trombone. Good inexpensive mouthpieces.
ttf_Full Pedal Trombonist
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Small bore mouthpiece most like the Alain Trudel ?

Post by ttf_Full Pedal Trombonist »

The cheap route is often a good route. Personally I really like Yamaha’s stock mouthpieces. Their signature line is also good, my only experience being with the Trudel and the Yeo. The rim feels slightly different between the Trudel and a 48 to me, but then a DE 99.5 would feel different too.
ttf_avantrombone
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Small bore mouthpiece most like the Alain Trudel ?

Post by ttf_avantrombone »

Thanks for all the helpful information. Your comments give me a lot to think about. I looked more deeply into Yamaha's mouthpiece list and discovered that the 51 and 51D (both for euphonium) have very similar rim diameter and  throat size to the Trudel. I guess that's a start. Anyway, I'l do some more research before I decide on anything.
ttf_Posaunus
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Small bore mouthpiece most like the Alain Trudel ?

Post by ttf_Posaunus »

I like the Olds Super, but it is a rather small-bore trombone (.485/.500" dual bore), so may not be a great match for a mouthpiece as large as the Yamaha Trudel (25.4mm cup I.D., 7.15mm throat).  Such a large throat may overwhelm the small bore of the Super.  On the other hand, you may find a mouthpiece with such a cup I.D. comfortable on your face, since you are already accustomed to it, and quite compatible with the Super.  As noted, mouthpieces with similar cup sizes to the Trudel are those like the Bach 6½ models (6½A, 6½AM, 6½AL), Schilke 50 & 50C4, Denis Wick 6BS, and Yamaha 48. 

My personal opinions (others [s]may[/s]/will differ):
  • [li]Slightly smaller cups work better on the small-bore Olds trombones - say ~25.0mm cup diameter, such as the Bach 6¾C, Conn 3, Schilke 47 or 47C4, Wick 9BS, or Yamaha 47.[/li][li]Throats ~6.5mm and smaller work better on the small-bore Olds trombones.  This would eliminate the 6½AL, Schilke 50, Wick 6BS, and Yamaha 48, which all have larger throats. [/li][li]The Yamaha 51 is too large for the Super - and the Yamaha 51D much too large. [/li]
By the way, I don't know why Yamaha lists the 51 as a "standard euphonium" mouthpiece.  It's perfectly good for medium-bore trombones. Just too big (in my opinion) for something as small as an Olds Super. 

Bottom line: The mouthpieces I would experiment with for your situation would be a Schilke 47 or 47C4 or 50C4, or a Conn 3. 
ttf_Posaunus
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Small bore mouthpiece most like the Alain Trudel ?

Post by ttf_Posaunus »

I like the Olds Super, but it is a rather small-bore trombone (.485/.500" dual bore), so may not be a great match for a mouthpiece as large as the Yamaha Trudel (25.4mm cup I.D., 7.15mm throat).  Such a large throat may overwhelm the small bore of the Super.  On the other hand, you may find a mouthpiece with such a cup I.D. comfortable on your face, since you are already accustomed to it, and quite compatible with the Super.  As noted, mouthpieces with similar cup sizes to the Trudel are those like the Bach 6½ models (6½A, 6½AM, 6½AL), Schilke 50 & 50C4, Denis Wick 6BS, and Yamaha 48. 

My personal opinions (others [s]may[/s]/will differ):
  • [li]Slightly smaller cups work better on the small-bore Olds trombones - say ~25.0mm cup diameter, such as the Bach 6¾C, Conn 3, Schilke 47 or 47C4, Wick 9BS, or Yamaha 47.[/li][li]Throats ~6.5mm and smaller work better on the small-bore Olds trombones.  This would eliminate the 6½AL, Schilke 50, Wick 6BS, and Yamaha 48, which all have larger throats. [/li][li]The Yamaha 51 is too large for the Super - and the Yamaha 51D much too large. [/li]
By the way, I don't know why Yamaha lists the 51 as a "standard euphonium" mouthpiece.  It's perfectly good for medium-bore trombones. Just too big (in my opinion) for something as small as an Olds Super. 

Bottom line: The mouthpieces I would experiment with for your situation would be a Schilke 47 or 47C4 or 50C4, or a Conn 3. 
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