Zoltan Kiss VS Monette

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:52 pm

So I know this is a very weird, and expensive matchup of mouthpieces, but I am intrigued to buy one of these mouthpieces and use them for a full time of playing, mostly for orchestral/concert usage. I personally want a easy response, good high register , and a amazing projection. Have heard about some good/bad things about Monette, nothing about the Zolton Kiss. If someone can help educate me on this it would be very much appreciated.

ttf_Bmalta · Post by **ttf_Bmalta** » Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:59 pm

Neither. Save your money and go to Greg Black or Doug Elliott.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:12 pm

Mouthpieces are like shoes. What works for some doesn't necessarily work for another. I have a small foot so a small shoe works really well for me. If I were to get Michael Jordan's shoes, it would make me play basketball worse! (Which would be hard to imagine...) If you want a shoe that fits, its hard to beat Doug's 3 piece system, as Brett mentioned.

If your profile is right, I see you are in middle school, in which case what you buy may largely be irrelevant anyway. As you develop, most people's needs change. You might get the perfect piece for you now, but in one or two years it might be very different from your needs. Again, Doug's system is nice because you can swap out say, just the rim if you ultimately need something different. More importantly, Doug is very good at teaching, so his advice isn't just what to buy from him but also how to play in general. (I've observed lessons where he recommended against buying anything, even).

All of that said, I would personally stay away from both Zoltan and Monette as they are difficult to resell and quite niche. Neither of them, as far as I'm aware, really have anybody in an orchestral setting playing them. Matt Guilford used to play one (I actually have his custom made leadpipe that he had to have because the Monette woudn't fit the normal leadpipe) because of the specific hall he was in he found one that worked well. So if you decide you don't like it (which is far from impossible), it would be harder to sell and replace with something that does work.

ttf_slideking · Post by **ttf_slideking** » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:22 pm

Thanks for the info, as of right now I play a Shires Q30 with an Axial Flow valve (I didnt have the trombone at the time my profile was made), The shires 5MD mouthpiece is what came with it, and I personally love the size, and I know that the Doug Elliot mouthpieces are great, but I have no idea where to start from there.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:27 pm

Quote from: slideking on Sep 04, 2017, 03:22PMThanks for the info, as of right now I play a Shires Q30 with an Axial Flow valve (I didnt have the trombone at the time my profile was made), The shires 5MD mouthpiece is what came with it, and I personally love the size, and I know that the Doug Elliot mouthpieces are great, but I have no idea where to start from there.

For the time being, especially if you already like it, you're probably (definitely) better off using the money for lessons. Shires mouthpieces are great too. I'm actually using one on my classical horn at the moment, threaded for one of Doug's rims, fwiw. Also, Doug does teach remotely and works with you to determine the size, since he knows his own pieces pretty well

For reference, a similar size would be an XT101,G,G8, though he can very frequently tell by doing a Skype with someone whether or not that truly is the best size or if they would do better with something else.

Took me playing literally 3 notes to know I was on the wrong rim size a few years ago... and he got it 100% right on the first try. Trombone voodoo!

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:30 pm

Quote from: slideking on Sep 04, 2017, 03:22PM... but I have no idea where to start from there.

I'd start by asking a teacher or coach who knows your playing what should be next. Or schedule a session with Doug Elliott. Doug doesn't usually sell his mouthpieces unless there is no other combinationn that will work for you.

Note that "amazing projection" is a combination of you, your mouthpiece, and your horn. It's a package. And you should be working on the "you" part aggressively.

ttf_slideking · Post by **ttf_slideking** » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:35 pm

Quote from: Matt K on Sep 04, 2017, 03:27PMFor the time being, especially if you already like it, you're probably (definitely) better off using the money for lessons. Shires mouthpieces are great too. I'm actually using one on my classical horn at the moment, threaded for one of Doug's rims, fwiw. Also, Doug does teach remotely and works with you to determine the size, since he knows his own pieces pretty well

For reference, a similar size would be an XT101,G,G8, though he can very frequently tell by doing a Skype with someone whether or not that truly is the best size or if they would do better with something else.

Took me playing literally 3 notes to know I was on the wrong rim size a few years ago... and he got it 100% right on the first try. Trombone voodoo!

Thank you for the information, is there a way to contact Doug on this forum? (sorry i'm new here haha)

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:38 pm

Quote from: slideking on Sep 04, 2017, 03:35PM
Thank you for the information, is there a way to contact Doug on this forum? (sorry i'm new here haha)

Doug is a member here under the name (surprise!) "Doug Elliott". You can send him a Private Message or an E-mail. You can also contact him through his Web Site: www.dougelliottmouthpieces.com.

ttf_slideking · Post by **ttf_slideking** » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:47 pm

Quote from: BGuttman on Sep 04, 2017, 03:38PMDoug is a member here under the name (surprise!) "Doug Elliott". You can send him a Private Message or an E-mail. You can also contact him through his Web Site: www.dougelliottmouthpieces.com.
Thank you very much, for the information, ill be sure to talk to Doug about the matter.

ttf_bigbassbone1 · Post by **ttf_bigbassbone1** » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:10 pm

All the qualities you listed that you are looking for, simply cannot be achieved by buying a mouthpiece. That's all there is to it really....

I can't think of very many people in professional orchestral settings who are playing either Monnettes or the Zoltan mouthpiece line. It's true that you need to find a mouthpiece that works for you, but you also should not completely dismiss what others who are in positions you want to be in, are playing on. It's not the be all and end all of course, but take it into consideration.

It's possible a Monnette or Latszch piece is what you need, but don't buy one without trying it first. Unless money is of no object to you. In that case go nuts!

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:21 pm

Quote from: slideking on Sep 04, 2017, 03:47PMThank you very much, for the information, ill be sure to talk to Doug about the matter.

He's been busy since ITF so he might not be swift in his response; he doesn't get offended at a follow up e-mail or phone call.

ttf_Doug Elliott · Post by **ttf_Doug Elliott** » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:59 pm

Actually I already replied to him.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:04 pm

Quote from: Doug Elliott on Sep 04, 2017, 04:59PMActually I already replied to him.

Back to the usual prompt self

ttf_mr.deacon · Post by **ttf_mr.deacon** » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:56 pm

Sigh... I'll be that guy...

Are you in middle school like your profile says? Stick with your Shires piece. Getting a Kiss mouthpiece or a Monette will not help your playing, if anything it will actually be destructive to your development and set you back. Both those pieces are very unique pieces of equipment that don't work for many players.

There's a reason almost everyone plays Bach or Schilke, or mouthpieces originally derived from those two designs.

ttf_Ellrod · Post by **ttf_Ellrod** » Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:08 pm

The Shires is a pretty good mpc and ideal for you at this point in your development.

Try long tones (with hairpins)

ttf_fsung · Post by **ttf_fsung** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:18 am

Quote from: slideking on Sep 04, 2017, 02:52PMI personally want a easy response, good high register , and a amazing projection.

ttf_wgwbassbone · Post by **ttf_wgwbassbone** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:45 am

Quote from: mr.deacon on Sep 04, 2017, 05:56PMSigh... I'll be that guy...

Are you in middle school like your profile says? Stick with your Shires piece. Getting a Kiss mouthpiece or a Monette will not help your playing, if anything it will actually be destructive to your development and set you back. Both those pieces are very unique pieces of equipment that don't work for many players.

There's a reason almost everyone plays Bach or Schilke, or mouthpieces originally derived from those two designs.

I'm glad you were "that guy". More need to be.

ttf_wgwbassbone · Post by **ttf_wgwbassbone** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:45 am

Quote from: mr.deacon on Sep 04, 2017, 05:56PMSigh... I'll be that guy...

Are you in middle school like your profile says? Stick with your Shires piece. Getting a Kiss mouthpiece or a Monette will not help your playing, if anything it will actually be destructive to your development and set you back. Both those pieces are very unique pieces of equipment that don't work for many players.

There's a reason almost everyone plays Bach or Schilke, or mouthpieces originally derived from those two designs.

I'm glad you were "that guy". More need to be.