Transposition Shortcuts

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ttf_anonymous
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Transposition Shortcuts

Post by ttf_anonymous » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:54 pm

Does anyone have any favorite transposition shortcuts for reading other instrument's parts on the fly, such as changing the treble clef to bass clef and adding 3 flats on bari sax parts?
ttf_BGuttman
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Transposition Shortcuts

Post by ttf_BGuttman » Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:03 pm

If you know tenor clef:  Bb instrument parts are in the same location as tenor clef.  Add two flats to the key signature.  Remember that what looks like B sharp is B natural and what looks like B natural is Bb.  Same goes for E.

If you know Mezzo-Soprano clef (the movable C is on the 2nd line from the bottom:  Image  Horn in F parts can be read this way.  Add one flat to the key signature and remember the comment about "B natural" above.

If you know all your clefs you can transpose "transposing" instruments like Trumpet in D, Horn in G, etc.  Clef transposition can also be useful if you are asked to raise or lower the pitch of a tune to match a singer.
ttf_Le.Tromboniste
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Transposition Shortcuts

Post by ttf_Le.Tromboniste » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:27 pm

Clefs.

If you learn all clefs (and I mean, every possible clef position...Sub-bass clef, baritone, bass, tenor, modern tenor(treble 8vb), alto, mezzo, soprano, treble) and get used to octave transpositions, then you can read about any music ever written AND transpose anything.
ttf_M.R.Tenor
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Transposition Shortcuts

Post by ttf_M.R.Tenor » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:30 pm

Quote from: Le.Tromboniste on Sep 24, 2017, 08:27PMClefs.

If you learn all clefs (and I mean, every possible clef position...Sub-bass clef, baritone, bass, tenor, modern tenor(treble 8vb), alto, mezzo, soprano, treble) and get used to octave transpositions, then you can read about any music ever written AND transpose anything.
Conversely, if you learned how to read transposed instrument parts, you might discover you know clefs that you didn't think you did.

For F Horn parts, I once heard you could hold down the F trigger, and read it as tenor clef, but up one octave. So concert C  Image Image, which is read as G, is just the fifth of the tonic of the instrument, sounded and played like a Tenor clef  Image but up one octave, and with two extra flats. This only confused me however, and I imagine most of us don't practice the upper notes on the trigger side of the horn. I still can't sight read F horn parts...



More useful is if you're playing alto trombone and reading an F horn part, you can read it as treble clef(which it is), and then the positions become the same as they would be on regular trombone, only an octave lower. So a written Bb Image Image is played first position, fourth partial like if it were a soprano trombone, but sounds the correct pitch with two written flats added. Now this one really makes absolutely no sense at all, but is a quite good way to fake it if you don't play alto nor read Mezzo Soprano clef well.


I hope I didn't mess that up, but you asked for transposition shortcuts. I'm sure I'll think of more.
ttf_Le.Tromboniste
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Transposition Shortcuts

Post by ttf_Le.Tromboniste » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:03 am

Using clefs for transposing by common intervals
(Written clef : clef you can use to transpose)
Most frequent or useful ones to know for a trombone player in bold

By Treble8 I mean octave-treble/modern tenor voice clef.


Up a step/D part (always +2 sharps/-2 flats)

Treble clef : alto clef 8va
Soprano clef : tenor clef 8va
Mezzo clef : baritone clef 8va
Alto clef : bass clef 8va
Treble8 : alto clef
Tenor clef : treble8
Baritone clef : soprano clef 8vb
Bass clef : mezzo clef 8vb (or just play up a step as you go...)

Horn in D (basso) = alto


Down a step/Bb part (always -2 sharps/+2 flats)

Treble clef : tenor clef 8va
Soprano clef : baritone clef 8va
Mezzo clef : bass clef 8va
Alto clef : Treble8
Treble8 : tenor clef
Tenor clef : soprano clef 8vb
Baritone clef : mezzo clef 8vb
Bass clef : alto clef 8vb



Up a fourth (always -1 sharp/+1 flat)

Treble clef : mezzo clef 8va
Soprano clef : alto clef 8va
Mezzo clef : tenor clef 8va
Alto clef : baritone clef 8va
Treble8 : mezzo clef
Tenor clef : bass clef 8va
Baritone clef : Treble 8vb
Bass clef : soprano clef 8vb

Or, if playing alto trombone, play as is while imagining you are holding a tenor


Down a fourth (always +1 sharp/-1 flat)

Treble clef : baritone clef 8va
Soprano clef : bass clef 8va
Mezzo clef : Treble8
Alto clef : soprano clef 8vb
Treble 8vb : baritone clef
Tenor clef : mezzo clef 8vb or bass clef up a step
Baritone clef : alto clef 8vb
Bass clef : tenor clef 8vb or just press the valve and read bass clef as if playing without valve

Or if playing tenor trombone, imagine you're holding an alto.


Down a fifth/F part (always -1 sharp/+1 flat)

Treble clef : mezzo clef (horn parts!)   
Soprano clef : alto clef
Mezzo clef : tenor clef
Alto clef : baritone clef
Treble8 : mezzo clef 8vb
Tenor clef : bass clef
(Baritone clef : Treble 15b)
(Bass clef : soprano clef 15b)

If playing bass trombone, you can press the valve and transpose down a step...


Up a fifth (always +1 sharp/-1 flat)
 
(Treble clef : baritone clef 15a)
(Soprano clef : bass clef 15a)
Mezzo clef : treble clef
Alto clef : soprano clef
Treble 8vb : baritone clef 8va
Tenor clef : mezzo clef
Baritone clef : alto clef
Bass clef : tenor clef



Thirds are simple if you know your clefs since all the traditional clefs (French violin, soprano, alto, tenor, baritone, bass, subbass, Gamma ut) are a third away from each other - so you just shift up or down one clef as needed only octave-treble creates octave issues.

Up a third (+4 sharps/-4 flats if up a major 3rd, -3 sharps/+3 flats if up a minor third)

Treble : French violin clef
Soprano : treble
Mezzo : soprano
Alto : mezzo
Treble8 : bass 8va
Tenor : alto
Baritone : tenor
Bass : baritone



Down a third (-4 sharps/+4 flats if down a major 3rd, +3 sharps/-3 flats if up a minor third)

Treble : soprano
Soprano : mezzo
Mezzo : alto
Alto : tenor
Treble8 : soprano 8vb
Tenor : baritone
Baritone : bass
Bass : subbass clef/treble 15vb



Eb treble clef parts (saxophones, some horn parts) : bass clef (with or without 8va depending on original instrument)
ttf_BGuttman
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Transposition Shortcuts

Post by ttf_BGuttman » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:18 am

That has to be the most comprehensive listing I have ever seen.  Thanks!  Some of the clefs you are referring to I don't even remember. Image
ttf_Bimmerman
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Transposition Shortcuts

Post by ttf_Bimmerman » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:26 am

That is amazingly helpful!

In the list, what's the distinction between Treble and Treble8? Is it marked somehow or is this assumed by the player?
ttf_Le.Tromboniste
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Transposition Shortcuts

Post by ttf_Le.Tromboniste » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:32 am

Quote from: Bimmerman on Sep 26, 2017, 10:26AMThat is amazingly helpful!

In the list, what's the distinction between Treble and Treble8? Is it marked somehow or is this assumed by the player?

I'll specifiy it in my post but by Treble8, I mean octave-treble (or treble-octave) clef, which is used instead of tenor clef for tenor singers in modern times. Treble clef with an 8 under it (or formerly, with a tenor clef superimposed). Anytime you play a modern edition of vocal music, at least one player needs to read this. It's also the clef used by baritone, euphonium, trombone players that actually play in Bb as transposing instruments (as opposed to playing in concert pitch and transposing as you read), although in that case, the 8 is implied and not actually printed.


Aside from being very common when playing at pitch, it's very useful especially for whole-step transpositions, because it bridges the gap between the tenor and alto clefs.
ttf_Le.Tromboniste
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Transposition Shortcuts

Post by ttf_Le.Tromboniste » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:32 am

Quote from: Bimmerman on Sep 26, 2017, 10:26AMThat is amazingly helpful!

In the list, what's the distinction between Treble and Treble8? Is it marked somehow or is this assumed by the player?

I'll specifiy it in my post but by Treble8, I mean octave-treble (or treble-octave) clef, which is used instead of tenor clef for tenor singers in modern times. Treble clef with an 8 under it (or formerly, with a tenor clef superimposed). Anytime you play a modern edition of vocal music, at least one player needs to read this. It's also the clef used by baritone, euphonium, trombone players that actually play in Bb as transposing instruments (as opposed to playing in concert pitch and transposing as you read), although in that case, the 8 is implied and not actually printed.


Aside from being very common when playing at pitch, it's very useful especially for whole-step transpositions, because it bridges the gap between the tenor and alto clefs.
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