Obamacare explained for musicians

ttf_robcat2075
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Post by ttf_robcat2075 »

Here is a low-drama explanation of what to expect and what to do.

The Uninsured Musician’s Guide to The Affordable Care Act

I put this in "Business" because this is ultimately a financial issue and should be a substantial boon to every free-lance working artist/musician/actor/performer/human in the US and all the rest who have "day jobs" that don't provide insurance.

The enrollment deadline is December 15.
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Post by ttf_robcat2075 »

The only remaining shoe to drop, I think, is when the states that have declined to expand Medicaid will turn around and get on board.

If you are in a state that will expand Medicaid be sure to look into the eligibility reqs for that as that will be much cheaper than any of the private policies offered in the new "exchanges". Many lower-income working people will qualify for Medicaid coverage.
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Post by ttf_SilverBone »

It's a pretty good overview IMO for non-musicians as well.
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Post by ttf_Eastcheap »

Quote from: robcat2075If you are in a state that will expand Medicaid be sure to look into the eligibility reqs for that

One of the more bizarre aspects of how things have worked out is that you can be too poor to qualify for subsidies.  In that case, Medicaid (provided it's available in your state) or full price are the only choices.  At least for now.

QuoteThe enrollment deadline is December 15.

March 31 for this enrollment period.  I believe open enrollment will run October-December starting next year.
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Post by ttf_robcat2075 »

Quote from: Eastcheap on Oct 17, 2013, 11:51PM

March 31 for this enrollment period. 

You're right.  The Dec 15 date is the deadline for people who want their coverage to start ASAP which is January 1.
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Post by ttf_robcat2075 »

Here is a calculator from the Kaiser Family Foundation that will quickly estimate your premiums and possible subsidies to offset that cost based on your income, location, family size, etc...

http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/


I haven't tried going through the entire process at www.healthcare.gov yet but it appears to be up and running.

EDIT: I guess the healthcare.gov problem is that people are having trouble making the actual personal account they need. Well, try later.



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Post by ttf_Matt K »

Quote from: robcat2075 on Oct 18, 2013, 02:36PMHere is a calculator from the Kaiser Family Foundation that will quickly estimate your premiums and possible subsidies to offset that cost based on your income, location, family size, etc...

http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/


I haven't tried going through the entire process at www.healthcare.gov yet but it appears to be up and running.

EDIT: I guess the healthcare.gov problem is that people are having trouble making the actual personal account they need. Well, try later.

That and you can't just see the plans without giving away a ton of personal information, even if you just want to see an unsubsidized price.
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Post by ttf_SilverSonic »

Quote from: robcat2075 on Oct 18, 2013, 02:36PMHere is a calculator from the Kaiser Family Foundation that will quickly estimate your premiums and possible subsidies to offset that cost based on your income, location, family size, etc...

http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/


I haven't tried going through the entire process at www.healthcare.gov yet but it appears to be up and running.

EDIT: I guess the healthcare.gov problem is that people are having trouble making the actual personal account they need. Well, try later.




I have two friends that got frustrated with the website and called in- they got much better service via phone.
ttf_robcat2075
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Post by ttf_robcat2075 »

Quote from: SilverSonic on Oct 19, 2013, 07:19AMI have two friends that got frustrated with the website and called in- they got much better service via phone.
Is there a national number for that or is it a state-by-state thing?
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Post by ttf_JimR »

One of the better balanced and informative "non-political" articles I have read.  Thanks.  Now part of my Facebook page!



Cheers

Jim
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Post by ttf_robcat2075 »

If you are an individual or family without health insurance... Today is your last day to get signed up for Obamacare (until enrollment opens again in November). You must get the sign-up process completed today, then pay for it sometime in April for coverage that begins May 1.

The healthcare.gov process is fairly simple and easy to read.  The only daunting part for me was when i was ultimately presented with the various plans that I could choose from.

Give yourself at least an hour to get through it, maybe more if you are enrolling for family members.

There seemed to be quite a bit of price difference among plans that ostensibly had the similar coverage so i went with the cheapest "silver" plan.  If I had gone down to "bronze" i could have gotten it for free after the subsidy I qualify for.

Even without the subsidy, the offerings looked to be a better than what I've encountered in the individual insurance market prior to this.
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Post by ttf_robcat2075 »

"Open enrollment" is over until November but if, between now and then, you should be in the unfortunate position of losing your job and the company-provided heath insurance that went with it, there is a safety net provision in Obamacare that allows you to get on board with a new plan that is probably much cheaper than a COBRA situation.

This article explains some of the details...

Obamacare Enrollment Is Far From Over


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Post by ttf_BGuttman »

1.  Change of job.
2.  Interstate move.
3.  Marriage.
4.  Divorce.
5.  Death of partner.
6.  Student turning 26 and no longer on parents' health plan.
7.  New baby (the baby can be enrolled).

I suspect if your current health care provider from the Exchange decides to cancel your policy (special conditions for this) you can change.

Note that your own death immediately releases you from any requirement of health insurance Image Image
ttf_Matt K
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Post by ttf_Matt K »

Quote from: BGuttman on Apr 01, 2014, 12:46PM
Note that your own death immediately releases you from any requirement of health insurance Image Image

Well that isn't so bad!  Image
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Post by ttf_SilverBone »

Quote from: BGuttman on Apr 01, 2014, 12:46PM
Note that your own death immediately releases you from any requirement of health insurance Image Image

Also, at most venues it's a valid excuse for missing a gig.
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Post by ttf_robcat2075 »

Boat-missers... If you had trouble getting your Enrollment done before March 31 you have until April 15 to get it done.

You have to "attest" that the site was a problem for you previously but you don't even have to pinky swear to that. If you so much as glanced at something you thought was the site before March 31 you can still jump in now.


Absolutely Positively Last Chance Obamacare Enrollment Deadline Set



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Post by ttf_BGuttman »

Quote from: robcat2075 on Apr 03, 2014, 12:17PMBoat-missers... If you had trouble getting your Enrollment done before March 31 you have until April 15 to get it done.

You have to "attest" that the site was a problem for you previously but you don't even have to pinky swear to that. If you so much as glanced at something you thought was the site before March 31 you can still jump in now.


Absolutely Positively Last Chance Obamacare Enrollment Deadline Set




Until that deadline passes without enough replies Image

Reminds me of the old "I'm going to count to three" jokes: one, two, two and a half, two and three quarters, ...
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Post by ttf_Matt K »

Quote from: BGuttman on Apr 03, 2014, 12:50PMUntil that deadline passes without enough replies Image

Reminds me of the old "I'm going to count to three" jokes: one, two, two and a half, two and three quarters, ...

This is the one thing that I haven't understood this entire time.  What exactly does the deadline mean? My understanding was by March 31, the program needed "X" (7 million?) people enrolled in order to have the pool be large enough to be solvent with the amount of subsidies set aside for the program.  Is it more than that? What happens if I were to say, pay the fee instead now and then later... say in August decide that I've changed my mind?
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Post by ttf_BGuttman »

Not quite sure what you mean by "pay the fee now".  If you sign up you will have to pay for your health insurance.  If you don't sign up now, you will have to pay a penalty when you file your 2014 Income Tax (i.e. between February and April of 2015).

Once you have signed into a policy, you are stuck with it for the year unless you decide not to pay for it in which case you may be dropped (and then subject to the penalty in 2015).
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Post by ttf_robcat2075 »



Quote from: Matt K on Apr 03, 2014, 01:09PMThis is the one thing that I haven't understood this entire time.  What exactly does the deadline mean? My understanding was by March 31, the program needed "X" (7 million?) people enrolled in order to have the pool be large enough to be solvent with the amount of subsidies set aside for the program. 
The 7 million figure was an estimate, for planning purposes, of how many people would sign up in this first year of the program and the "individual mandate".   

The actual solvency of the plan depends on the ratio of sick people to healthy people who are enrolled and paying premiums and not on the total number of people.

The Washington Post, while insisting that the administration HAD said that 7 million were necessary, glides past this bit...

Quote(To be fair, when Sebelius spoke of 7 million being “a realistic target,” she also made this point: “It’s both about numbers and hopefully getting a balanced risk pool. So a lot of our efforts will be using creative ways to outreach to sort of the young healthy population who is eligible but who may not get up every morning thinking about health insurance.” But the media have tended to emphasize the 7 million figure.)

Technically, there were about 30 uninsured people prior to Obamacare and they should all be getting signed up somewhere, right?, but "7 million" was an estimate of what a new program, about which much misinformation has been spread, would be able to sign up in the first year.






Quote Is it more than that? What happens if I were to say, pay the fee instead now and then later... say in August decide that I've changed my mind?
If you stop paying your insurance premiums, your insurance coverage will end AND at tax time next year there will be some penalty for not being covered. You're required to have health insurance now, either individual or job-provided.

(If you stopped paying your premiums because you got a job that had insurance, the penalty would not apply.)

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Post by ttf_Matt K »

Oh that's right, I forgot it was a tax and not a monthly fee.  Or penalty... or whatever you want to call it.
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Post by ttf_robcat2075 »

Health insurance premiums had previously been going up about 10% each year. Now they are actually edging down.


Is Obamacare Making Insurance Cheaper In Your City? New report shows prices falling in some places, but there's a catch


Short version of "the catch"... when open enrollment returns at the end of the year don't just accept an automatic re-enrollment in your current plan. Shop the available plans again for the best terms.


Image
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Post by ttf_robcat2075 »

The dates for Open Enrollment under the Affordable Care Act AKA Obamacare.

Remember to shop around again. There may be a better deal for you than re-upping on your current plan.

QuoteOpen Enrollment is the time when you can find a new Marketplace plan, keep your current plan, or see if you can get help paying for coverage. If you want to make sure you’re covered in 2015, mark these 4 dates on your calendar:

November 15, 2014. This is your first day to take action to keep or change your coverage.

December 15, 2014. Enroll by the 15th if you want new coverage that begins on January 1, 2015. If your plan is changing or you want to change plans, enroll by December 15th to avoid a lapse in coverage.

December 31, 2014. The day all 2014 Marketplace coverage ends, no matter when you enrolled. Coverage for 2015 plans can start as soon as January 1st.

February 15, 2015. The last day you can enroll in 2015 coverage before the end of Open Enrollment.

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Post by ttf_robcat2075 »

Open Enrollment for 2016

Reminder for US citizens and residents that Open Enrollment for healthcare marketplace policies, with coverage to begin on Jan 1, ends in a couple days... Dec. 15.

QuoteImportant dates for 2016 enrollment

   
    December 15, 2015: Last day to enroll in or change plans for new coverage to start January 1, 2016
    January 1, 2016: 2016 coverage starts for those who enroll or change plans by December 15.
    January 15, 2016: Last day to enroll in or change plans for new coverage to start February 1, 2016
    January 31, 2016: 2016 Open Enrollment ends. Enrollments or changes between January 16 and January 31 take effect March 1, 2016.

My insurance company for the past year offered me an automatic re-enrollment with a much higher premium.

I went to the Healthcare.gov site and found a plan with a different company that covers the same things for less cost than what I had this year.

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Post by ttf_robcat2075 »

Open Enrollment for 2017

The open enrollment deadline for choosing a policy at Healthcare.gov has been extended from yesterday, Dec 15, to Monday Dec 19.

QuoteConsumers will now have until midnight Monday, Dec. 19, to sign up for coverage that begins Jan. 1 and avoid paying a tax penalty for not having coverage. The marketplaces remain open for weeks beyond that for consumers to continue to shop, but for coverage dates that start later in the year.
The Affordable Care Act has been great for me.  I couldn't get health insurance before, now I can and it is indeed affordable.

I shall be very disappointed to see it go.


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Post by ttf_BGuttman »

Trump campaigned on "Repeal and Replace".  Unfortunately, it seems a lot of the Republicans only heard the "Repeal". Image
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Post by ttf_anonymous »

Quote from: robcat2075 on Dec 16, 2016, 09:11AMOpen Enrollment for 2017

The open enrollment deadline for choosing a policy at Healthcare.gov has been extended from yesterday, Dec 15, to Monday Dec 19.

The Affordable Care Act has been great for me.  I couldn't get health insurance before, now I can and it is indeed affordable.

I shall be very disappointed to see it go.


Who said it's going anywhere?
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Post by ttf_ronkny »

Quote from: BGuttman on Dec 16, 2016, 09:28AMTrump campaigned on "Repeal and Replace".  Unfortunately, it seems a lot of the Republicans only heard the "Repeal". Image
Who are these Republicans?  Insurance companies are dropping out of the exchanges. It's not sustainable.  The new plan will be much better.
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Post by ttf_BGuttman »

Quote from: ronkny on Dec 16, 2016, 01:17PMWho are these Republicans?  Insurance companies are dropping out of the exchanges. It's not sustainable.  The new plan will be much better.

Are you on to something I am not/  I haven't heard a peep about a replacement for Obamacare.  Or are you talking about the Health Savings Accounts (which need money to work)?
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Post by ttf_robcat2075 »

Quote from: ronkny on Dec 16, 2016, 01:17PM Insurance companies are dropping out of the exchanges. It's not sustainable. 

There are at least two reasons I believe the insurance companies are disingenuous on this.

-Several of them only announced withdrawals after the Justice department moved to block competition-eliminating mergers they wanted. This pure revenge to try to wreck the ACA.

-Some insurance companies are claiming they have to withdraw because of losses but they are actually still highly profitable. They are trying to make the ACA appear unworkable even while other insurers do just fine in it.

I looked up earnings info for Aetna, one of the big withdrawers.  Booming profits every year of Obamacare with projections for continued growth.

They want to go back to the good old days when they could collect your premiums for years and then drop you once you got an expensive illness. Of course that would be more profitable... but that's not what we need health insurance for.


Here's another analysis...

Cry me a river, Aetna.

QuoteRetreating carriers whine that exchanges bruised their bottom lines; meanwhile, their profits are off the charts, thanks to ... Obamacare.





 



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Post by ttf_ronkny »

Quote from: robcat2075 on Dec 16, 2016, 05:03PMThere are at least two reasons I believe the insurance companies are disingenuous on this.

-Several of them only announced withdrawals after the Justice department moved to block competition-eliminating mergers they wanted. This pure revenge to try to wreck the ACA.

-Some insurance companies are claiming they have to withdraw because of losses but they are actually still highly profitable. They are trying to make the ACA appear unworkable even while other insurers do just fine in it.

I looked up earnings info for Aetna, one of the big withdrawers.  Booming profits every year of Obamacare with projections for continued growth.

They want to go back to the good old days when they could collect your premiums for years and then drop you once you got an expensive illness. Of course that would be more profitable... but that's not what we need health insurance for.


Here's another analysis...

Cry me a river, Aetna.





 



Actuaries look into the future.  Not just the present.  Yes, they may be profitable now but what about to the future?
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Post by ttf_robcat2075 »

Here in Texas, some companies pulled out but mine (Molina) and several otheres stayed and my rate went up only about $20/month this year over last year.

How is that their "actuaries" say can make money at it and other's can't?  Maybe it's not Obamacare.  Maybe some of those other companies are just damn wasteful and inefficient. Or crooked?

Why do we presume that it's Obama's fault that some companies do badly? Maybe they are just lousy at the insurance business?

Now that they have to actually do the thing they claim to do and can't just take your money... It turns out some of either weren't very good at it or just don't want to be.


Are any of these companies really getting their money's worth out of compensation like this? Is your healthcare any better because they do? 


Image


Image


One thing is certain. After Obamacare is ruined, those guys salaries will go up. That's why they are rooting for repeal.


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Post by ttf_harrison.t.reed »

"Health insurance premiums had previously been going up about 10% each year. Now they are actually edging down."

Hmmm...
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Post by ttf_ronkny »

Quote from: robcat2075 on Dec 18, 2016, 10:26PMHere in Texas, some companies pulled out but mine (Molina) and several otheres stayed and my rate went up only about $20/month this year over last year.

How is that their "actuaries" say can make money at it and other's can't?  Maybe it's not Obamacare.  Maybe some of those other companies are just damn wasteful and inefficient. Or crooked?

Why do we presume that it's Obama's fault that some companies do badly? Maybe they are just lousy at the insurance business?

Now that they have to actually do the thing they claim to do and can't just take your money... It turns out some of either weren't very good at it or just don't want to be.


Are any of these companies really getting their money's worth out of compensation like this? Is your healthcare any better because they do? 


Image


Image


One thing is certain. After Obamacare is ruined, those guys salaries will go up. That's why they are rooting for repeal.


Joseph Molina compensation for 2015 10.3 million.  It doesn't matter what the CEO makes. I don't care what they make.  Good for them.
Molina is in now but what about the future? You could have been in any number of the companies that pulled out and said the same thing before they left.

You realize that obama already "ruined" health insurance for millions. So what is ruined for you may be great for others and vice versa. My deductible went to $10,000  a year. So obamacare sucks for me.
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Post by ttf_BGuttman »

Obamacare is based on a Republican program for Massachusetts (Romneycare).  He chose this over single payer because he thought the Republicans would support something of their own devising.  He was wrong -- the hatred of that "Uppity N*****" exceeded his offer to nearly capitulate.

Note that if he was able to get single payer, your deductible would probably be something like Medicare: around $500 per year.
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Post by ttf_ronkny »

Quote from: BGuttman on Dec 19, 2016, 09:15AMObamacare is based on a Republican program for Massachusetts (Romneycare).  He chose this over single payer because he thought the Republicans would support something of their own devising.  He was wrong -- the hatred of that "Uppity N*****" exceeded his offer to nearly capitulate.

Note that if he was able to get single payer, your deductible would probably be something like Medicare: around $500 per year.
There's no "hatred for the uppity N*****". You have quite a guilt complex about that Bruce. You've posted that statement quite a bit.
Who cares who's plan it is.  It's a crummy plan and only good in a couple of respects which Trump and Ryan said they'd keep.
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Post by ttf_BGuttman »

Dunno how crummy it is.  It works pretty well in Massachusetts.

Also, while I don't think you or Dusty have it in for Obama because of his race, I think there are a lot out there who do.  Just like there are a lot out there who are convinced that Hillary Clinton will mess things up simply because she's a woman.
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Post by ttf_ddickerson »

Quote from: BGuttman on Dec 19, 2016, 09:15AMObamacare is based on a Republican program for Massachusetts (Romneycare).  He chose this over single payer because he thought the Republicans would support something of their own devising.  He was wrong -- the hatred of that "Uppity N*****" exceeded his offer to nearly capitulate.

Note that if he was able to get single payer, your deductible would probably be something like Medicare: around $500 per year.

Actually, the base of the republican party and the tea party cautioned against having Mitt as the nominee because he was the author of his states healthcare, and he would not be able to argue against the implementation of Obamacare.

The base stayed home, and Mitt lost.

Please get over this myth that you guys keep trotting out by Obama's race, and Hillary's gender, and when you nominate an Hispanic, you'll float that out too. It really makes you guys look childish and laughable.

Get better policies and you'll get better results. Of course, since we're a two party political system, it will always be about the communists and the capitalists.


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Post by ttf_BGuttman »

I wouldn't say anything about Hispanics.  You folks nearly nominated Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz.  Plus you had another nominee who was married to a Hispanic (and speaks fluent Spanish).

Instead you elected a guy who ridicules them.

Dusty, you and I were both growing up before the Equal Rights act.  We both had family who were prejudiced.  Just because a law was passed saying it's not nice any more doesn't change the fact that some people still are prejudiced.
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Post by ttf_snorsworthy »

"If you have your plan, you can keep it!" (Obama's promise, repeated over and over again)

Obama was privately informed prior to that statement that it would only apply if you had your plan prior to 2010, but he did not say that.

"Let's pass the plan so we can see what's inside the plan." (Nancy Pelosi)

Passed without one Republican vote. So much for Obama's compromises and lack of leadership.

He promised lower premiums.

My plan, which I had prior to 2010, well, I was able to keep it. But the plan went up 200% higher over the next few years. I checked to see if I could get a lower premium on an ObamaCare-qualified plan, and it would have been 100% even higher than the 200% increase I was getting on the non-Obama-care plan and for less total coverage!


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Post by ttf_BGuttman »

I don't really have an answer for your comment.  Obamacare was intended to be a way for people who didn't have health insurance through an employer to get health insurance.

One thing I kept hearing during my time as an employee was that health insurance premiums were increasing faster than any other cost.  This probably would be the same time as your stint at Motorola.  The health care expense problem long predated Obmamcare.
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Post by ttf_ronkny »

Quote from: BGuttman on Dec 19, 2016, 10:25AMI wouldn't say anything about Hispanics.  You folks nearly nominated Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz.  Plus you had another nominee who was married to a Hispanic (and speaks fluent Spanish).

Instead you elected a guy who ridicules them.

Dusty, you and I were both growing up before the Equal Rights act.  We both had family who were prejudiced.  Just because a law was passed saying it's not nice any more doesn't change the fact that some people still are prejudiced.
How about a black supreme court justice? Just for starters.
Condeleeza Rice, Conservativeblackchick.com, Mia Love,Dr Ben Carlson, Sheriff David Clarke,....
The anti black nutjobs are a small minority.
The left has racists just like the right Al Sharpton, the black panthers, many people in black lives matter. ...
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Post by ttf_timothy42b »

Quote from: snorsworthy on Dec 19, 2016, 10:47AM"If you have your plan, you can keep it!" (Obama's promise, repeated over and over again)

Obama was privately informed prior to that statement that it would only apply if you had your plan prior to 2010, but he did not say that.

What should have been explained is if you have a plan that meets all the legalities (preexisting conditions, etc.) then you can keep it.

Most states regulated their insurance agencies and so most plans did meet the new requirements.  Some states let insurance agencies do anything they wanted to maximize profits and those agencies did not meet requirements. 

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Post by ttf_ddickerson »

Actually, leading up to the implementation of Obama care, my health insurance thru my employer was good and not near as expensive as it is now. This so called crisis was just that. It was a manufactured crisis for the democrats to create a one player, gov controlled healthcare provision. They didn't get the one payer, but they planned on going there next after the latest failures.

Then Trump.

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Post by ttf_anonymous »

Quote from: snorsworthy on Dec 19, 2016, 10:47AM"If you have your plan, you can keep it!" (Obama's promise, repeated over and over again)

Obama was privately informed prior to that statement that it would only apply if you had your plan prior to 2010, but he did not say that.

"Let's pass the plan so we can see what's inside the plan." (Nancy Pelosi)

Passed without one Republican vote. So much for Obama's compromises and lack of leadership.

He promised lower premiums.

My plan, which I had prior to 2010, well, I was able to keep it. But the plan went up 200% higher over the next few years. I checked to see if I could get a lower premium on an ObamaCare-qualified plan, and it would have been 100% even higher than the 200% increase I was getting on the non-Obama-care plan and for less total coverage!


I feel your pain.

My wife and I covered each other (double insurance). But thanks to Obama Care - no longer.
I have less coverage now.
My premiums JUMPED (they go up every year a minimal amount, but have jumped drastically since Obama Care).
I lost my plan, and had to settle for less.
I lost some Doctors, as they left this new plan.
I have higher deductibles.
I have higher Co-pays.
I have higher prescriptions.

Everything went up, even with loosing coverage, and with less family covered.

Obama is a liar, but then again - so are most politicians.

T.
ttf_timothy42b
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Obamacare explained for musicians

Post by ttf_timothy42b »

Quote from: tsmart on Dec 19, 2016, 12:06PM
My premiums JUMPED (they go up every year a minimal amount, but have jumped drastically since Obama Care).
I lost my plan, and had to settle for less.

That does make sense. 

You lost your plan, because it didn't cover everything that was required. 

Your new plan cost more, because it covered more things. 

For you it is lose lose, because you were happy with what you were getting, even though it didn't meet the new standards.  For a larger group it was a win. 
ttf_ronkny
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Obamacare explained for musicians

Post by ttf_ronkny »

Quote from: timothy42b on Dec 19, 2016, 12:18PMThat does make sense. 

You lost your plan, because it didn't cover everything that was required. 

Your new plan cost more, because it covered more things. 

For you it is lose lose, because you were happy with what you were getting, even though it didn't meet the new standards.  For a larger group it was a win. 
Sounds like Karl Marx. Image
ttf_BGuttman
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Obamacare explained for musicians

Post by ttf_BGuttman »

Quote from: ddickerson on Dec 19, 2016, 12:01PMActually, leading up to the implementation of Obama care, my health insurance thru my employer was good and not near as expensive as it is now. This so called crisis was just that. It was a manufactured crisis for the democrats to create a one player, gov controlled healthcare provision. They didn't get the one payer, but they planned on going there next after the latest failures.

Then Trump.


You had employer provided health insurance.  How about the folks who either were self-employed, worked for very small companies, or worked for a Cheapskate like Wal-Mart?

Obamacare was not intended to replace employer provided health care.  In fact, there were parts of the law that imposed severe penalties on employers who removed healthcare insurance in favor of Obamacare.

Now a single payer or Government provided health care is a different animal...
ttf_mbarbier
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Obamacare explained for musicians

Post by ttf_mbarbier »

maybe time to move this thread to the PP section?
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