Freelance Trombone Playing Query

ttf_LX
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:01 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_LX »

I just got a nice note from a young trombonist who is figuring out where he wants to live and how to go about establishing a career in music. He asked me for some general advice and I thought I'd share it here too.

Best wishes,

LX
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi _______,

Thanks for writing.

As I see it, success as a freelance trombonist requires a combination of well-rounded competence, personal reliability, musical consistency, patience, trustworthy-ness, diligence, humility, knowledge of your own strengths and weaknesses, a total love of music [regardless of the kind of musical situations you find yourself--if the music on a given gig is not "your thing", you play the gig the best you can, you keep quiet, you take the money and go home], and there's also a significant amount of plain old luck.

Luck enters with regard to where and when certain critical people hear you play, so it's always important to play and be your best in whatever situation you agree to commit to [no matter how "lame" it may be or how much/little it pays!!]. It is important to always...above all, actually....to do something to remind yourself why you took up your instrument in the first place every single day. Before music was a business for any of us, it was something we LOVED to do. Certain players usually get hired in part because they vividly communicate this love they have for Music, so it is not trivial to a successful music BUSINESS outlook. Any given gig might be a drag, but Music is what we really love. People [not just audiences, but the people who hire you] will pick up on this important characteristic. I have witnessed world-class players not get hired back because they just looked like they were having a lousy time on the gig. And I am not talking about "schmoozing", or just trying to be funny or popular, or pretending to be something you're not. It is a part of successful player's total character.

As I say all this, keep in mind I "broke into" the business starting about 25 years ago. A lot has changed since then. The musical demands for players has changed, the taste/s of the public has changed, the music business has changed, technology has changed. Anyone who is successful NOW probably went about certain things quite differently than someone expecting to establish themselves STARTING today! Watch, observe,listen and treat people with respect. You play WITH not THROUGH other people. Freelancing is not a race, it is a more of a potluck dinner. Everyone brings something for everyone else to enjoy. Sure, there are comparisons between who is the better player [or who makes the best potato salad!], but leave that to others to judge you in comparison to other players. You focus on what comes out of your horn and what comes [or DOESN'T come] out of your mouth.

For all but the two or three players I can think of making their living as soloists, professional trombone playing is still centered around the ability to BLEND in an ensemble situation. The players I like to play with the most [even though many of these players might also be well-known soloists!!] make the act of playing music comfortable and easy for everyone around them-regardless of the "style"! They pay attention, they listen, they play with a great sound. Since they pay attention THE FIRST TIME, they don't feel the need to ask too many questions in the process; they take in more than they "put out".

Again, given the chance, they can "step up and be noticed"--often on a world class level-- but they also know when to tuck in and blend. They play with consistent time, pitch and dynamics. If placed in a "lead" chair, they treat others with respect and instantly remove any doubt as to what they are going to do musically while remaining open to alternative approaches. If they are placed in a section chair, they do so without complaint or fanfare [yes, that was a 'round about trumpet player reference Image]

Sure, we all have egos and each of us wishes we were getting the acclaim as players we deserve. But we also deserve the chance to prove ourselves in a section position. One of the busiest and most well-known lead trumpet players in the world has said, "I pay my bills playing second and third trumpet on movies." So he is in-demand in either case...lead or section. Diversification can lead to more opportunities.

The players I like to play with "check their egos at the door" and focus on making the most of the music in front of them.

They know how to tap and communicate the music in whatever style of the music they are asked to play--whether they "like" that kind of music or not. If there are kinds of music you cannot hide your hatred or discomfort from, save everyone [including yourself] the hassle--turn the gig down next time!!

In other words, successful freelancers tend to know what they are getting in to!! If it is something they don't feel like they can do, they know when to admit it to the leader, composer or conductor and even recommend someone who does. They avoid these types of situations, however, by constantly seeking out new musical opportunities and putting in the time and effort to learn how to deal with them. They have curiosity and use it to grow and adapt.

Successful freelancers have well-rounded abilities in many things inside and/or outside music. They adjust, they cope, they tend to help others do the same.

Successful freelancers are usually easy to get in touch with. Even if they are NOT available for the gig, they are available to reach. They return phone calls. They're pleasant to talk to. They don't complain much, but are usually quick to address or point out important/controversial issues of concern to whatever group they are a part of.

Out here in LA, these days, it feels like our business has been changing on almost a daily basis!! No one has a crystal ball which outlines what the future holds for us as musicians--and trombonists are at the bottom of this particular food chain too. Trombone players have lived with the "Last hired, first fired" joke/philosophy ever since the last of the big bands were replaced by rock and roll bands at school dances. But many of us have managed to survive these changes. Perhaps we provide an example to other "busier" instruments of how to adapt to the ever-changing world of the "music business". I predict it will continue to become less and less likely that a trombonist in his/her 20's will be able to make their living ONLY as a player. There will be exceptions. A few great players will get a few of the necessary "breaks" and get in there, but the bad news is very few of us [since we are basically "fired" when we leave a gig] ever feel completely "in there".

I think some people new to this world tend to consider music from a very personal point of view, and only judge what it must be like to play trombone professionally based on what they hear on certain players solo cd's. That's fine,but there are many ways of making a living in music and there are often alternatives that you must consider when you decide to do it for a living. Sometimes that might include teaching, arranging, producing, contracting groups, or even a flexible NON music job.

Each person I work with has arrived at his/her current position of the "pecking order" [which doesn't really exist on paper anywhere!] in his/her own way. Some have self-promoted quite a bit, others totally let their playing do all the talking. One thing I say to many of my students is that no one really wants to hear "what you can do" they want to "hear you do it"!!

Also, a very wise freelance oboist I know said, "Everyone I know who talked themselves IN to a job has immediately or eventually talked their way OUT of it!!"

No matter where you end up living, just keep listening and sharing your love of music!!

Best wishes,

Alex
-----------------------------------------------------------
ttf_ghenly
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:37 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_ghenly »

Thanks for a great posting! This strikes me as good advice for anyone who wants to play 'professionally,'  regardless of whether they expect to be reimbursed monetarily.
ttf_Gabe Langfur
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:00 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_Gabe Langfur »

Thank you Alex. Very well put.


ttf_ctingle
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:00 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_ctingle »

Go Alex! 

One of the best posts on this forum I've ever seen.

Keep on spreading the good word,
ttf_Thomas Matta
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:01 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_Thomas Matta »

Beautiful, Alex!

Tim Coffman, my dear colleague and free-lance trombonist buddy here in Chicago, has a great bit of advice he is always reminding me of when I start wanting to speak up or "go-off" on someone - and he credits Keith Brown with the wisdom:

"Never pass up an opportunity to shut the f%#+ up!"

(Sorry for the profanity!)
ttf_LX
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:01 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_LX »

Thanks for the nice responses. I am always altering this little "speech" I give students and I love hearing other people's ideas on the subject. Most young people who usually pose this question are very sincere and I really do think it's important to offer constructive suggestions.

Tom, I love Tim's line. I am reminded of one of trombonist Bruce Otto's many memorable one-liners ...

"Think before you speak. Then DON'T."

 Image
ttf_martian
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_martian »

Dispite my lack of interest in playing trombone professionally (I'm just not good enough) I found your post interesting and thought provoking. I like your philosophy and your honest and articulate voicing of it.

good post

 Image
ttf_bassclef
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:01 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_bassclef »

thanks for the free lesson, lx.

erudite advice from someone who has been out there doin' it just about was well as it can be done.

may i suggest that a moderator sets this thread to stick around at the top of this board going forward?

valuable stuff.

ttf_fsgazda
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:24 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_fsgazda »

Outstanding, valuable advice!  The kind of thing that I need to remind myself of from time to time.
ttf_denny seifried
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:00 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_denny seifried »

Hi Alex----A great bunch of advice for all of us to ponder.

Thanks for sharing it with all of us! Image
ttf_djdekok
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:59 am

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_djdekok »

Quote from: Thomas Matta on Nov 19, 2007, 10:46PMBeautiful, Alex!

Tim Coffman, my dear colleague and free-lance trombonist buddy here in Chicago, has a great bit of advice he is always reminding me of when I start wanting to speak up or "go-off" on someone - and he credits Keith Brown with the wisdom:

"Never pass up an opportunity to shut the f%#+ up!"

(Sorry for the profanity!)

LOLOLOL

How true!

I LOVE LOVE LOVE the advice LX gives.

It's solid advice that can be applied to ANY walk of life, really.  Do the job, even the parts you don't like; Find something to love in the most impossible people and build them up; Love your Music; Take care of yourself, spiritually, emotionally, physically, and Musically.
ttf_ntap
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_ntap »

Good stuff, Alex, thanks.

It's been a while since this screen has been enlightened.




ttf_BoneCall
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:23 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_BoneCall »

What a great post! Nice responses too. Thanks LX.
ttf_slidemansailor
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:00 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_slidemansailor »

I'm thinking the advice applies just as well to amateurs who want opportunities to play with other musicians. If you are in a group of any kind, blending, contributing and fitting in as a person, people around you can visualize inviting you to do more of that in other places.  Fitting well in a church band could get you invited to a chair in a dance band... and so on.
ttf_anonymous
Posts: 0
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:09 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_anonymous »

I was told, some 20 years ago, that you have to be so good that they miss you when you're not on the gig.  It's very nice to read your advice Alex, and be reminded of that. 

I have noticed that many of the younger cats that show up on the scene have the wrong idea.  They're busy trying to show everyone what they can do without checking out what the older cats can do.  If you're in a section next to Benny Powell, why are you trying to impress him?  Think about all the situations that he has experienced.  Think about the great players that have sat next to him...or in front of him and behind him.  Listen to what he says.  Watch what he does.  If you want to be sitting in that chair for the next 40 years, there is a template readily available. 

You are, in my humble opinion, right on the mark about loving Music.  I, like most of us who freelance, have an opportunity to experience plenty of musicians who are "burned out" or jaded.  They "never got their due" attention or respect and now they're making us all pay for it.  One such experience started me thinking recently.  It started me thinking critically about myself, too.  I tried to remember what it was to first understand an altered dominant chord.  I remember being able to connect to timbre to a definition in my mind.  I remember when I found the notes I liked in the chord.  I remember being so excited and energized.  Why has that joy of discovery subsided?  It's difficult to keep that kind of excitement and energy if we don't continue on the journey of discovery....and most importantly, if we need someone else to notice.  When we're in school, there is always someone there telling us when we did it right, or on which things we need to improve.  But, in the real world, we have to adjust our minds to be both critical and rewarding to ourselves. We have to do the internal work and take the results to the bandstand.  If we go to the bandstand looking for someone to notice our progress or reward us for it, we'll probably be disappointed.  It is expected that we'll sound great....we're professionals. 

Thanks for spurring further thought, Alex.  I hope we'll have a chance to sit in a section some time.  Right now....it's a little too far to commute. 


DG
ttf_LX
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:01 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_LX »

Quote from: D Gibson on Nov 27, 2007, 09:31AMI was told, some 20 years ago, that you have to be so good that they miss you when you're not on the gig.  It's very nice to read your advice Alex, and be reminded of that. 

I have noticed that many of the younger cats that show up on the scene have the wrong idea.  They're busy trying to show everyone what they can do without checking out what the older cats can do.  If you're in a section next to Benny Powell, why are you trying to impress him?  Think about all the situations that he has experienced.  Think about the great players that have sat next to him...or in front of him and behind him.  Listen to what he says.  Watch what he does.  If you want to be sitting in that chair for the next 40 years, there is a template readily available. 

You are, in my humble opinion, right on the mark about loving Music.  I, like most of us who freelance, have an opportunity to experience plenty of musicians who are "burned out" or jaded.  They "never got their due" attention or respect and now they're making us all pay for it.  One such experience started me thinking recently.  It started me thinking critically about myself, too.  I tried to remember what it was to first understand an altered dominant chord.  I remember being able to connect to timbre to a definition in my mind.  I remember when I found the notes I liked in the chord.  I remember being so excited and energized.  Why has that joy of discovery subsided?  It's difficult to keep that kind of excitement and energy if we don't continue on the journey of discovery....and most importantly, if we need someone else to notice.  When we're in school, there is always someone there telling us when we did it right, or on which things we need to improve.  But, in the real world, we have to adjust our minds to be both critical and rewarding to ourselves. We have to do the internal work and take the results to the bandstand.  If we go to the bandstand looking for someone to notice our progress or reward us for it, we'll probably be disappointed.  It is expected that we'll sound great....we're professionals. 

Thanks for spurring further thought, Alex.  I hope we'll have a chance to sit in a section some time.  Right now....it's a little too far to commute. 


DG

Somebody once said to me that he thought great players he'd observed tend to "take in" more than they "put out", even when they are "putting out" a lot!!

Listening means so much more than we usually realize.

Bob McChesney often tells students who want "quick" answers that he won't give them because he does not want to get in the way of the student's own discovery process. As you say so clearly, Dave; it is often the act of discovery itself [and not someone just giving you the "answer"] that makes the things you learn that much more vivid and long-lasting. There are many pieces of the jigsaw puzzle right in front of us. What a great feeling it is when you find a couple of them that fit together just right.

Maybe this is something that students in educational institutions seem to over-look: The act of learning itself [not necessarily "what" you learn] is one of the greatest rewards of education.

Great ideas, Dave.

I too, look forward to playing/hearing some music with you sometime.

The work commute just around town here is getting too far sometimes... Image

Best wishes,

LX

ttf_dj kennedy
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_dj kennedy »

thanks  lx
 that was  great  !!!!!!!
-----
its  the  free  part 
to  jump  on the  bus
 the ship
the  plane
-------
the   movie  music
  theres another  story
sinatra  and streisland   elvis   even
live  and  lifestyle
  ----------
dick  nash  for  sure  --man  he  coulda sold  cars  !!!!!!!!!! lotsa  cars  !!!!!!!
-----------
day  gigs  -------?????????????
------------
piano -keyboards -writing --arranging  --[reggie  watkins]
-----------
genius  guys  and  gals 
incredible  talent  and  smarts[[[[and  a few weirdos]]]]]
------------
SUPPORT  GROUP  !!!!!!!!!!!!!
--------------
FORGEDDIDABOUT   ----------
ever see  a  trombone on american idol  ?????????????????
===========
hey  lx  are   you  going to  salt  lake  ??????????
mc  chez     is  wanting to  do something too
================
rodney  lancaster 
came  over  yesterday
 hes  shipping  out  on the  8th
---------
new  guys  at  semo  and  siu
 -----
the new  guy  at  siu ---thats  the  way   i  like   uh  huh    uh     ----kc  band
 his  buddy  is  the  new sax  guy  too
===============
==============
more advice [[ha  ha  ]
get  a buddy  who is  a  sax player[roland  barber -delfayo]
==================





ttf_LX
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:01 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_LX »

QuoteFORGEDDIDABOUT   ----------
ever see  a  trombone on american idol  ?????????????????
Well, yes. His name is Arturo Velasco and he is one of the cats in the band making everyone else sound great [or at least "better"]. Image
ttf_anonymous
Posts: 0
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:09 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_anonymous »

There's no shortage of first-rate trombone playing. When you show up in a big city and want to work,there are a couple of things to bear in mind-there are already plenty of good players who have been at it for a while. If you play really well,you may get some work. If you play better than anyone(Highly unlikely),but not impossible,you may be busy sooner than later. The other thing is versatility-How many styles of music can you feel really comfortable in? How quickly can you adapt to a situation and become almost invisible in a constructive way?
ttf_Dan Satterwhite
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:59 am

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_Dan Satterwhite »

QuoteMaybe this is something that students in educational institutions seem to over-look: The act of learning itself [not necessarily "what" you learn] is one of the greatest rewards of education.
VERY wise words!
ttf_anonymous
Posts: 0
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:09 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_anonymous »

Most of my teaching is in a liberal arts context.  I feel that learning is the only goal.  I receive much joy from helping students develop a higher and more sophisticated awareness of all of the facets of music.  By recognizing all of the nuances present in the art of making "music", they can either enjoy music more or create music better....or both.  This ends up being my most rewarding teaching, since the agendas of the students are limited.  They are only there to "learn". 

But, when I have students with designs on being a professional musician, the situation can get much more dicey.  They have, in many of the difficult cases, already established an agenda and begun on a path.  If I think they should back up and notice something they may have missed, they are more inclined to resist my implied indictment of them or their agenda.  These students are wasting time for both of us.  I always offer that I am not better than my students, but just further along a path that they may be on too.  I share what I have noticed and learned along the way.  I don't have all the answers, but I do have experiences to share.  I can see immediately when someone is bs'ing me and themselves.  Sometimes, students approach me in hopes of me getting them a gig.  That rarely happens.  That would require me to have too much work and decide to give extra work to someone I just met instead of someone else who has been living in NYC for years with a family and a track record of excellent performance and professionalism.  There are cases wherein I might throw something to a new guy, but it probably won't pay anything....or be such a terrible situation that I couldn't call certain people to do it.  So...these students lose all the way around.  They don't "get a gig" and they don't learn anything.  Too bad. 

DG
ttf_Pyrepapayabeast
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:59 am

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_Pyrepapayabeast »

As a trombonist who is just breaking into the world of freelancing, I want to echo the wisdom of many of the other trombonists on this post.  I'm 25 and hopefully going to grad school in the fall, and I spend a little time freelancing.  I'm from an insanely small state, so I don't depend on freelancing gigs for any type of income, it's more gaining experience, and the extra bucks certainly can come in handy.  I just thought I'd relate some of my experiences as someone just starting.

In high school, my teacher told me to simply play as much as possible.  I got into a couple community bands as well as playing in my high school bands and festivals.  This proved to be a really good place to start, because it was a lot of fun and I made many contacts ... several of whom are still the people who most often hire me for paid gigs.

The common thread in this ... well, thread ... seems to be the willingness to be diverse.  My paid gigs are insanely varied ... I've played for church events, in orchestras, jazz groups, a funk/rock band, on the local late night TV show, pit orchestras for community theaters and school musicals, parades (on Sousaphone ...).  I've done my best to always show up with a positive attitude with the music prepared (granted, that doesn't always require hours and hours practice depending on the nature of the gig  Image ).

There has never been a gig I've done that I haven't learned something from, no matter what the "level" of playing is.  I use every experience to make me a better musician, and that attitude has a positive effect on everyone.  I've also found that it occasionally leads to moving up on the "list" of players, even past people who have done specific gigs for years.

I have nothing really "new" to add, I just really want to reinforce these ideas, because there's a lot of wisdom in this post, and all of it has worked for me.  I have the chops, sure (not that I don't need an insane amount of work, mind ...  Image), but a willingness to take every gig possible with a smile on my face has done wonders for my freelancing, my playing, and (of course) myself as a person!

Edit: oh yeah, and believe me, I got a TON out of reading these posts that I can use myself!!
ttf_griffinben
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:59 am

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_griffinben »

This is great...

I would only say one other thing:  Know Thyself

There's a lot of really fine musicians that take different paths. 

The ones that get a charge just out of playing will make the freelancing scene better.  Enough has been said already about what to do in that department.

The ones that only want to make art should maybe think of making a backup plan to support themselves so they can pursue music in a way that is untouched by the necessities of eating.  Yeah yeah, when you're young and excited you maybe want to live that poor lifestyle, pay those dues, not eat well, live in a dive and just play.  It's romantic for a while and exciting.  But that stuff gets old as you get older, and sooner or later you'll wish you had something else to get you out of the poor house.  Nobody you play with will care what you do to pay the bills if you're good enough to make the music. 

I know quite a few people who are really happy doing the both the former and the latter.  And there's quite a few who might be happier had they chosen the latter rather than the former.

Know Thyself!

-Ben

PS i hope I haven't violated the rule of "thinking about what to say and then not..."
ttf_BGuttman
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:15 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_BGuttman »

This becomes a very interesting discussion, especially for our younger members.

When you are in High School, you really don't see what options are available to you in the world.  Often you are a member of the Band/Orchestra/jazz band, etc. and you think "wow, this is great fun and I'd love to do this as my job".

There are several thousand high schools in this country and each one has at least 50-75 kids who are making music.  That means there are tens of thousands of musicians out there.  And the market for these people is in the range of a few hundreds.  This is a really tight market!!

Our young players need to sit back and see what options there are in the world.  Some of us work in High Tech.  Others of us work in Merchandising.  Still others in Finance.  Others work in Education.  And some, a glorious few, actually make their living playing trombone.  I know it sometimes makes me look like the Grinch, pouring cold water on everybody's dreams, but I feel that a cold, sober decision has to be made about what you want to do.  I have met indifferent players who are excellent music teachers and music store owners/employees.  To be a good teacher requires really connecting with kids.  To be a good music store owner requires knowledge of business and a very people-directed attitude.  Not necessarily the traits that will make you the Lead Trombone in Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra or the New York Philharmonic.

I don't think any High Schooler has an appreciation of what being a Mechanical Engineer, Tax Accountant, or Database Programmer involves.  It might actually be fun!  Some of us wear our vocations on our sleeves, and I for one invite all the kids who might be interested in my situation to either open a topic or PM me to find out what it's like to be working as a Chemical Engineer or Chemist and free-lance sometime player.

ttf_Pyrepapayabeast
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:59 am

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_Pyrepapayabeast »

Absolutely!  I get tired of hearing people tell kids that they can be anything they dream to be ... it's not bad to dream, but they always leave out the part "... if you work your butt off for it."

I definitely don't know if I have what it takes to make money playing trombone, but I'm certainly going to try.  I dream of getting a full time job as a musician, but as BGuttman points out, there are a lot of folks vying for a very few jobs.

There are so many things to do in the musical world besides just playing.  If I don't become a full-time trombone player, I certainly want to do something else related to music.

Some of my musical buddies are computer programmers who play and teach part-time.  They love it.  There really isn't an end to the options available.
ttf_Chris Fidler
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:41 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_Chris Fidler »

Live it, dream it, eat it, believe in yourself AND WORK YOUR BUTT OFF!!!!!!!!!

I remember going to careers advice and telling them i wanted to be a professional trombonist....... They almost laughed me out of the room!!!!!

I didn't listen to a word of their doubting confidence.

I've been a professional trombonist for 25 years.
It is tough but worth it.

BUT you REALLY have to WANT to do it........ Come what may!!!!!!

P.S. I knew that i wanted to do this from about the age of 11.
ttf_anonymous
Posts: 0
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:09 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_anonymous »

In the freelance world, there is no such thing as stability.  Getting a great gig and doing a good job are good for your resume, but even the best gig is akin to being elected President for one day.  The next day, you're back at the beginning again.  That is what many fail to remember.  You are your own business and you're the product.  Work is never guaranteed.  For those who wish to own their own business, realize that there are much more profitable ways to make a living.  For those who wish to make music, realize that you always struggle to find the next gig. 

When I moved to NYC, I spent my first summer traveling with Slide Hampton.  Next, I toured with the Dizzy Gillespie Alumni.  Next, I worked in the sales department at Boosey and Hawkes.  Then I played a bunch of weddings.  Then I worked a temp job doing data entry.  Then I made a record.  Then I did some more weddings.  Then I toured with the Dizzy band again.  Then I led my own gigs at clubs in the city.  Then I did some teaching.  Then I played more weddings. 

What I enjoy as much or more than music is people.  I like being around good people.  I'm lucky that I get to do this...but not always.  There are plenty of work situations that involve folks with which I would rather not work.  But, I have to eat.  And, I have to make music. 

DG
ttf_Bonefide
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:59 am

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_Bonefide »

Wonderful thread!!!

A lot of the ideas apply to more than just freelancing, and I have definitely tried to make a point of "checking my ego at the door".  Hopefully, more trombone players will catch on to that idea.   Image

Although it is a little disheartening to realize how hard it is to make a living strictly playing trombone, it doesn't necessarily mean "give up faith".  I haven't quite decided what I want to do with my life, nor do i feel immediate pressure to.  I could go the BGuttman way and pursue physics and be a civil or mechanical engineer to pay the bills, and play with local bands and whatnot.  Then again, I could toss physics on the backburner and just use it for some light reading, and becoming a music teacher.  Who knows.

Regardless of my rambling, this thread was a great read, and I'm loving all the words of wisdom.
ttf_LX
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:01 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_LX »

There seems to be another couple of important themes emerging here related to self awareness, and an individual's musical diversity.

When Dave said

QuoteIf you want to be sitting in that chair for the next 40 years, there is a template readily available.
 it reminds me how important it is to really listen and observe everything about how established players and colleagues conduct themselves as musicians and as humans. You learn more than just the musical stuff this way.

I found Ben’s saying, "Know thyself" so true on many levels. The first person you need to be “true” [honest] with is yourself. Again, listening and observation are the tools at your disposal. But you have to also be open to realize that there might be parts of yourself you have not yet discovered so don't jump to too many conclusions there either. In other words, don’t ever stop GETTING to "Know thyself"!

Some people see themselves within a box; "I don't improvise." or "I don't play [this or that] kind of music." But you don't really know anything like this until you've given yourself the right amount of concentrated exposure combined with how much you really know and love about the music at hand.

When you were a 2 month old baby, if someone said, "Ok, stand up and put that cup of water on that coaster." You wouldn't have been able to do it--you couldn't walk, let alone stand up... you didn't know what "cup", "coaster" or "put" meant and you didn't even have the language skills to understand that this was even a sentence directed at you in the first place! But, in less than 3 years you would. Luckily for you, you didn't know how little you knew!!  You learned to do thousands of things you once hadn't the foggiest clue how to do!

At the risk of sounding redundant...

There are many ways of being "diverse".  Image

As Bruce said so well [and even was kind enough to volunteer time to privately answer inquiries  Image Image Image] it is wise to remain realistic about the way you are going to make a living. If you have a way to tolerably make a living and still create and/or play music...that could be the way to go for you. It worked t various times for Charles Ives and JJ Johnson [both of whom worked non music jobs at the heights of their music careers].

But just because you might end up making your living outside music does not mean you EVER have to sacrifice pursuing your musical path. A path that should, in my opinion, be there REGARDLESS of the make-a-living part.

And this is a path without a foreseeable final destination!

Commit to being the best and most realized musician you can be. The "destination" is merely a by-product.

That is why for a young musician to say, "one day I am going to be in a major symphony orchestra" or "...be a studio musician" or "...be a jazz musician" seems kind of illogical in the music world as I have observed it to be. If you are that singularly focussed, fine, but there are MANY ways to make music and there are just as many if not MORE ways to make a good living.

I once had a sax player friend [very committed to jazz and improvisation who reached a VERY respectable level] who, in his frustration with lack of work tell me, “You know, I think that’s it!! I’ve had it. I am going to make a smooth jazz/Kenny G kind of recording. I’m done trying to convince contractors and leaders that they should hire me based on the way I’ve been playing.”

My response was this....
“You want to record a bunch of music that contradicts everything you stand for musically? And you also then want to be hired instead of people who DEFINE THEMSELVES MUSICALLY by that genre you can’t stand? Who are hiring agents more likely to chose to hire to play that music?”

Thanks for all the great responses to this topic.

Keep 'em coming!!

LX


ttf_BoneCall
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:23 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_BoneCall »

Quote There are plenty of work situations that involve folks with which I would rather not work.  But, I have to eat.  And, I have to make music. 

Having to play in those situations is the disadvantage to being dependant on a freelancing lifestyle. If you care about the music inside yourself, playing jobs simply for the income they generate can be very destructive. I can testify about that first hand - after a year of Cats I wanted to throw my horn in the river. Maybe JJ and Charles Ives had the right idea, at least for future generations of trombonists who will, it seems, have even less opportunity than there is today.

On the other hand if playing the trombone becomes a more flexible undertaking, who knows what the future will bring.
ttf_Chris Fidler
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:41 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_Chris Fidler »

Quote from: BoneCall on Dec 29, 2007, 02:29AM I can testify about that first hand - after a year of Cats I wanted to throw my horn in the river.

A year of playing the same stuff (especially Lloyd Webber) night after night would make anyone want to throw their horn in the river.

However with the right attitude to keep everything else going whilst having a regular gig like that can work to your advantage.
You ARE allowed nights off...... 28 days paid holiday too, plus you can give other players sub work!!!
That will also pay off as they will more than likely book you back.

The right Attitude works wonders for survival in this biz!!!!!!!
ttf_anonymous
Posts: 0
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:09 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_anonymous »

I hear you, Jerry. The times when I am tempted to get upset about the quality of the music or musicians with which I am working are really opportunities for me to "grow up" and work on things other than music. I can work on my mental strength by clearly defining my expectations from a given situation. Or, I can focus on my airstream or my attacks. There are always challenges to be found and work that I can be doing. But, if I was doing one of these jobs every single day for a year, I would probably want to throw your horn in the river too....errrr...my horn in the river. Image

I can usually deal with a poor musical situation if I am encountering interesting and friendly people. Without the friendly folks, the challenge is much greater.

DG

ttf_BGuttman
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:15 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_BGuttman »

There have been other famous amateurs in the past.

The Russian "Mighty Five" (which included Balakirev, Borodin, Cui, Moussorgsky, and Rimsky-Korsakov), all students of Glinka, made their livings from something other than music.

Borodin was a Professor of Chemistry.
Moussorgsky was a customs inspector (when he was sober).
Rimsky-Korsakov was a naval officer.

Their contemporary, Tchaikowsky, made his living as a Professor of Music.

There are people who should be professional musicians.  I see them a lot.  What they have in common:

1.  They would rather play music than anything else in the world.  Rather than eating, playing sports, or even sleeping.

2.  They are diligent in pursuing the minutiae of their instrument.  Wynton Marsalis was said to have left a lesson and worked on nothing but attacks for 8 hours straight.

3.  They have an aptitude and feel for musical style and interpretation that the "mechanical clock" players never master.

Sure, it's a tough business.  But some guys do make it.  It wasn't me.  I preferred to eat.  But I still love to play.  So I can do both.

ttf_LX
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:01 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_LX »

One of the things that I have learned from observing several well-established freelance players...

You bring your BEST game--whatever the gig. Great musicians who are true to Music sound great even in less-than-great musical situations. You are missing an opportunity if your perspective is so fogged up by your desire to be doing something else musically at that moment. As a professional musician, you are paid to make that music sound as great as you can make it regardless of the gig at hand. Some may see this as "turd polishing"...maybe sometimes it is... Image

And that might mean playing night after night in an orchestra pit.

It's really not that hard to change your perspective sometimes.

We all know Dick Nash, right?

Dick's son, Ted is one of the most respected and sought-after jazz saxophonists in NYC. He's played in the LCJO and also leads, tours and records extensively with his own groups. He also played in the pit for Cats on Broadway for several years. Maybe he's thought of that steady gig as his own miniature/personal version of the National Endowment for the Arts.

Andy Martin, besides being a well-known jazz and studio player is probably the top call player out here for Broadway shows. He's been doing Wicked for nearly the last year. And, let me tell you, he's at the TOP of his game right now. AND he plays that show the best he can night after night--and he does that VERY musically.

You cannot measure yourself [or anyone else] by what gig you [or he/she] are doing at any given moment. If a given gig "makes you want to throw your horn in the river" you are probably better off doing something else FOR A LIVING.

But Music will always be there!!

The music that successful freelancers care most about inside might have little to do with the gig they are doing on the outside. They just bring the best of what they have to share musically and personally to the job at hand,then take the check and head home.

Bass trombonist/teacher Terry Cravens has a great line about this idea. "Your main job you get paid to do is to take all that music piled on the right hand side of the music stand and get it all turned over face down to the left hand side of the music stand." The people who do that job MUSICALLY get invited back.

In the meantime, you listen and you practice and stay on your journey.

LX
ttf_Chris Fidler
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:41 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_Chris Fidler »

Great post Alex!

My attitude is that I'd rather be out every day/night playing the horn than sitting at home moaning!!!!

Even the Broadway musical situation ain't that bad when you consider that you only have to work for 3 hours leaving around 15 waking hours a day to do whatever you want and not have to worry about putting food on the table.
Bob Mintzer told me he played Cats on Broadway!!!

 
ttf_BoneCall
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:23 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_BoneCall »

I've been lucky enough to be awarded a National Endowment grant LX, and I can tell you it has nothing whatsoever in common with playing in the pit at Cats.  Image

If the music that successful freelancers care most about inside has little to do with the gig they are doing on the outside then its a terrible indictment of the profession. Like Chris Fidler I knew early on that I wanted to be a musican but I also knew that whatever talent I had was not to be squandered on the "turd polishing" that makes up too much of freelancers schedule. I'd seen the toll freelancing took on older musicans who were robbed of any individuality they might have contributed to the music by being turned into sound alike plug and play modules. Only the very strongest retained any semblance of a really distinctive sound or indeed any real desire to make good music.  

But successful freelancers are able to make a living with their horn. And many pay a high price for it if they have any artistic aspirations. Perhaps freelancing as an artist is the modern equivalent of selling /surrendering your soul. Perhaps for many of the best artists their soul might be too important to part with.

Quote"Your main job you get paid to do is to take all that music piled on the right hand side of the music stand and get it all turned over face down to the left hand side of the music stand."
What a wonderful career to aspire to.
ttf_Chris Fidler
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:41 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_Chris Fidler »

It is possible to mix the 2 I call Bread and Butter gigs and Artistic gigs.

Both contribute to having a career in music and making you a better musician!!!

Jerry I know that you play a few bread and butter gigs with your wedding band. You simply can't make a decent living here only playing Jazz!!!!!



What's the National endowment grant you've been awarded then?
Is that that a recent thing here in Hamburg?
ttf_ctingle
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:00 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_ctingle »

I don't think you're getting it, Jerry.  Could you change your perspective to look at your Cats gig as subsidizing your more artistic goals and projects?  Don't many, many players on Broadway and in pits everywhere do exactly this?  I'm thinking of the Vanguard Jazz Orch, for instance, and how many of the guys over the years have been on the longest running shows while making sure they preserve their Monday night jones.  I'm sure we could all come up with a decent list of players with similar situations, though far fewer than during the "glory" years.

OR

I'm remembering Dave Liebman's take on all of this, saying he would far prefer to substitute teach in the NYC schools by day so that all of his music making was in artistic/creative mode.....no weddings, studio work, or shows.....another approach that he probably only had to use in the early years, though I'm not sure.

Interesting to read the various perspectives here...

Quote from: BoneCall on Dec 29, 2007, 01:48PMI've been lucky enough to be awarded a National Endowment grant LX, and I can tell you it has nothing whatsoever in common with playing in the pit at Cats.  Image

If the music that successful freelancers care most about inside has little to do with the gig they are doing on the outside then its a terrible indictment of the profession. Like Chris Fidler I knew early on that I wanted to be a musican but I also knew that whatever talent I had was not to be squandered on the "turd polishing" that makes up too much of freelancers schedule. I'd seen the toll freelancing took on older musicans who were robbed of any individuality they might have contributed to the music by being turned into sound alike plug and play modules. Only the very strongest retained any semblance of a really distinctive sound or indeed any real desire to make good music.  

But successful freelancers are able to make a living with their horn. And many pay a high price for it if they have any artistic aspirations. Perhaps freelancing as an artist is the modern equivalent of selling /surrendering your soul. Perhaps for many of the best artists their soul might be too important to part with.

What a wonderful career to aspire to.

ttf_BoneCall
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:23 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_BoneCall »

QuoteWhat's the National endowment grant you've been awarded then?
Is that that a recent thing here in Hamburg?

Nope, that grant is ancient history. I used part of the money to finance The New York Tapes.

http://cdbaby.com/cd/jerrytilitz1

Wedding band?! Don't let my guys hear you describe them like that. The beauty of leading party gigs over here as opposed to the ones I used to do in NY is that people over seem to be a bit more sophisticated and are greatful for the music that we feel good doing. With the occasional Girl From Ipenema thrown in for the less experienced punters.  Image Doesn't matter, its fun to turn on the sexiest voice I can muster and try for some response from the ladies. Then its back to Lazybird or one of my own compositions or some standards that I like to sing. I don't know how "jazzy" you would consider our party repetoire but we never do a tune the same way twice and we all get to solo on almost every piece. The most satisfying thing is that I shape the evening the way I want. That in itself is * high art *.  I find when I please myself the audience is likely to be pleased as well.   Image


ttf_anonymous
Posts: 0
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:09 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_anonymous »

I don't think anyone here is trying to compare the satisfaction of getting a grant and working on a project you care about and DESIRE to do with being able to cope with the real word realities of feeding yourself playing music.

I think what is being conveyed is what is realisticly ahead of one who choses to play for a living, and what is expected in those situations.

Regardless of what a person thinks of the music they have to perform, it's how one performs that music that determines if they are hired back or again.

Solid technique, the ability play with others and musicality count, no matter the sitution.  Or at least they count when another guys can be called to take your place the next night.  The more cats in your town, the higher the stakes.

But then again, work is so scarce that most people dare not mess up any gig if they can  help it.

Hell, people don't mess up in REHEARSAL BANDS.

Ya gotta eat.

Or, you chose a different lifestyle or different avenues so that you don't have to put yourself in that situation.

I've always found it best to make that decision myself, before someone else makes it for me.  Dig?

-Ben
ttf_LX
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:01 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_LX »

Quote from: BoneCall on Dec 29, 2007, 01:48PMI've been lucky enough to be awarded a National Endowment grant LX, and I can tell you it has nothing whatsoever in common with playing in the pit at Cats.  Image

If the music that successful freelancers care most about inside has little to do with the gig they are doing on the outside then its a terrible indictment of the profession. Like Chris Fidler I knew early on that I wanted to be a musican but I also knew that whatever talent I had was not to be squandered on the "turd polishing" that makes up too much of freelancers schedule. I'd seen the toll freelancing took on older musicans who were robbed of any individuality they might have contributed to the music by being turned into sound alike plug and play modules. Only the very strongest retained any semblance of a really distinctive sound or indeed any real desire to make good music.  

But successful freelancers are able to make a living with their horn. And many pay a high price for it if they have any artistic aspirations. Perhaps freelancing as an artist is the modern equivalent of selling /surrendering your soul. Perhaps for many of the best artists their soul might be too important to part with.

What a wonderful career to aspire to.

Jerry's perspective is very valuable to this discussion!

A couple things...

1. A lot of musicians I know take of a portion of their income from their "soul-less" gigs and turn them around to fund the music they want to create themselves. Mike Davis comes to mind. I think someone can have all the artistic aspirations they want and still play their horn to fund the endeavor.

2. Not sure that working for a living counts as "an inidictment". The freelance life is not for everyone, that is for sure, but what bothers me are people who expect their artistic endeavors alone to be enough to live ON...to the contrary, art is something to live FOR. I know many older musicians [as I enter those ranks myself  Image!!] who continue to maintain high personal artistic standards DESPITE the fact that they might earn the majority of their incomes playing in less-than-optimum musical situations. This topic has largely been about this very dilemma, and despite the flow of words from the bitter and jaded I have been hearing for the past 30-40 years of being a musician, there are ways to make a living playing your instrument while still maintaining a commitment to Music.

3. If you notice, Terry Craven's quote starts with "Your main job...etc". I was not referring to what he describes as a musician's ONLY job or anything close to that. Terry likes to speak in broad metaphor. Sorry if that didn't come across. However what he describes IS ONE aspect of the total career I DO aspire to and I must accept the idea to a certain extent. It is, after all, a job. We all have to "pay dues" in so many ways to get to be invited to work at that job...you gotta practice long tones and scales, practice tunes you know turn up on jam sessions you're not crazy about, you have to be personable, show up on time, etc etc...and...

Yes, you have to figure out ways to just get through some gigs the way Terry describes. I think that the people who accept ALL these challenges and make music in the process are creative artists in their own right.  It only becomes soul-less when you stop bringing your best musicianship to the table. When that happens, save yourself, bandleaders, and your colleagues a lot of time and hassle: Go do something else for money and pursue the music you want whenever you feel like it!! Just make sure you learn how to write a killer grant proposal!

4. As artists, I've always thought that one of our responsibilities is to bring our art to people. Sometimes, what might be a dumb gig to you is the BEST place to do just that! I have played casuals [club dates] alongside several jazz artists most of you have heard of. Many of them, without changing one thing about their artistic standards played THEIR way and it still fit the gig. I think sometimes we have this romantic image of "the Artist" in our minds. Maybe it's time to re-think that image. Art can sneak into a wedding gig [as Jerry says!] or into the way a trombone section blends on a chord for a second-tier off-Broadway show. Art can be found outside those exclusive art-house settings where we were all once so inspired.

I also think some players, after years of study and practice, develop a strong sense of entitlement when it comes to "their art". Granted, some people are meant to make music ONE way. That's fine, but if anyone still thinks the world owes them anything for having pursued a single minded musical journey, they are sadly mistaken.

LX


ttf_griffinben
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:59 am

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_griffinben »

Nice points Alex,

this discussion is rapidly changing from "How to be a freelance trombonist" into "what to expect as a..." or rather "What NOT to expect..."

The simple fact of the matter is that playing music to make a living involves performing music that isn't art (most of the time) and is not (for the most part) the kind of music that one has endevours throughout their study to play.

So...

if that is the truth...

and we're telling you the truth...

you either deal with it, do something else, or lead a sad existence.

Period.

As someone close to me once said after working at Radio City Music Hall for 12 years said:  "Art's the doorman".

So, you make art on your own.

And you thank your lucky stars when you get a great gig that is spiritually rewarding.  If it's spritually and financially rewarding (it does sometime happen) be even happier.

No one should be in the dark as to the state of live music today. 

If you are in the dark, look around...

Knowing that, knowing what's popular in music, knowing what kind of work you might get as a trombone player...

Or thinking about it at least...

You have some choices to make.

Decide who YOU are, and make a decision accordingly...

Or explore who you are, and find out...

The problem is that very few people ever go into trombone playing, or are trained in the western classical or jazz traditions in american universities/colleges, to play the music that they are most likely going to play for a living. 

What's worse, most folks involved in getting younger folk involved in making music aren't ever going to tell them that.  Univeristies, un-wordly private teachers, a public that doesn't understand what regular working musicians have to do are all part of that problem.

So listen to the good advice and experiences that are being given to you here, by real people out there actually doing what you want to do and decide. 

It's a persoanl path you take and no path is wrong as long as you'll be happy.

-Ben
ttf_BoneCall
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:23 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_BoneCall »

Great points Ben and LX et al. I hope all the young trombonists on the forum are reading your very informed posts along with me.

The fact is I might be a bit spoiled over here. I remember years ago when a friend of mine, the drummer Bob Moses, told me over a beer that he was leaving NY because he only got to play with the people he wanted to (at that time Hal Galper, Mike Brecker and that crew) on the average of once a month. I thought to myself I'm in exactly the same position although not in such classy company. I'd gotten everything I could out of the rehearsal band, show and clubdate scene and it was becoming apparent. Trombonist Keith O'Quinn came right out with it at one point - "Hey Jerry the first half was great and then you lost interest". It was time to go too. It was a good move although I still miss you guys. Now and then.  Image  Over here as a leader I get to do things my way, in other words, never the same way twice. There MUST be some art in that somewhere.  Image


QuoteI don't think you're getting it, Jerry.  Could you change your perspective to look at your Cats gig as subsidizing your more artistic goals and projects? 
But think of the effect months of Cats was having on my playing and my head (shutter). Some guys are strong enough to deal with that kind of a situation and still be creative but think of the energy it takes to ward off that routine and mindset and still be an effective artist! If the Klingons had access to that kind of forcefield Kirk wouldn't have stood a chance. 

In the end all I can say is that I'm feeling great and still crazy after all these years.  I'll go almost anywhere to bebop - its a gift. But if you want me to sit still in a section and behave you better have a very decent check with my name on it.  Image

ttf_Gabe Langfur
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:00 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_Gabe Langfur »

I think I've posted this here before:

"The highest reward from your working is not what you get for it but what you become by it." - Sydney Harris

I cut this out from the newspaper and pasted it in the front of the binder I put together for audition materials, for the times when I feel like I'm banging my head against the wall practicing tiny fractions of pieces of music for a pointless audition.

I'm not going to tell anybody how this thought is or is not relevant to their particular situation.

Personally, I love freelancing nearly all of the time. Occasionally I'll have a gig where the music is so bad it makes me angry (I had one last week in fact), but there's nearly always some saving grace to it, usually with the players around me.

This is an excellent discussion, and I think one of the things arising from the disagreements is that different people have different personality types and different tolerances for music that doesn't tap anything deep within themselves. And I don't think such differences are any indicator of who the better musicians are by any means.
ttf_LX
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:01 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_LX »

QuoteI think I've posted this here before:

"The highest reward from your working is not what you get for it but what you become by it." - Sydney Harris

I cut this out from the newspaper and pasted it in the front of the binder I put together for audition materials, for the times when I feel like I'm banging my head against the wall practicing tiny fractions of pieces of music for a pointless audition.

That's a keeper, Gabe. Image

Just so you know, Jerry...

I DO believe quality music, and arts in general have been under siege for years by a lot of "pop" culture which can defeat the spirit of many artists. However, that same "pop" culture [or "folk culture" which existed before electricity and the internet!] has also given birth to and/or inspired the creation of many forms of art we hold so dearly today. Bartok borrowed from common Hungarian folk songs, Duke Ellington created some of his most significant early work playing for wealthy people in the hugely popular "Cotton Club", a whites-only establishment in Harlem. Charlie Parker re-defined the popular blues and defined a school of improvisation building on the framework of common "popular" tunes of his day. And so it remains so to this day.

 I am sure my fellow forum-ites can think of many [and better] examples of this in history.

If it were not for the very existence of a popular culture, those wishing to hear/see something more significant might not have a standard to compare artistic greatness to in the first place!! Greatness needs to have something to rise above to be seen as great.

Also, none of us knows when or from where the "next" thing will emerge.  Image

A composer friend of mine told me once that inexperienced composers often think of themselves as "inventors" of art. He doesn't totally buy that idea. Rather, he believes the great ones tend to be first and foremost, "discoverers". Many composers often say that a given piece emerges as if it already somehow existed before they started and they are merely unearthing it and committing it to paper. I have had fleeting glimpses of this feeling on a handful of occasions as an improviser.

Sometimes, an artist endowed with a special combination of talent and diligence will find his/herself struggling to make ends meet or struggling to get through a series of unrewarding gigs. History has proven time and time again that these moments, for an even rarer kind of artist, can become the point at which his/her life comes into focus through the music. That stage in life--however wretched it might get for the artist personally--can be when they begin to unearth their voice, their method, their way. Their life's work becomes creating works of art, rather than just "doing the gig". This moment might occur for different people at different times and manifest itself in many different ways.

I sincerely hope that any young person wishing to seriously enter the profession of music strives to keep the Music Business two separate words. If one respects each word in that phrase, one is less likely to become either too surprised or too jaded when he/she hears others use them side-by-side. To me, the only responsibility we have as musicians is to share what we have with the world. For some, that involves following a specific artistic vision, for others, that means sharing their knowledge and wisdom with students, while for others still, that is sharing their best musicianship with what might otherwise be just  another "commercial" musical situation.

LX
ttf_janettem
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:01 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_janettem »

The process of creation and spontaneity ultimately triumphs,regardless of setting,musicians and the type of music you're playing up there.

I think we all should all remember that.

Yes,it can be a drag out there,but that should not be a deterrent to choosing to have a career in music.

In the end,it's all about being happy,and enjoying yourself out there.
ttf_Thomas Matta
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:01 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_Thomas Matta »

Just dropping this in:

My colleague Tim Coffman relates this Keith Brown (Indiana) advice:

"Never pass up the chance to shut the "blank" up!" (expletive deleted!!!)

Wish I could adhere to it some days!!!
ttf_Andy Baker
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_Andy Baker »

I find myself saying from time to time:

"I play the trombone for a living and music for fun"

and:

"It has to be for the music or the money. Hopefully both, never neither"

In other words, as usual, I agree with with what the pros say! We're all in the same world trying to make music and keep roofs over our heads.


ttf_Andy Baker
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_Andy Baker »

Quote from: Thomas Matta on Jan 27, 2008, 08:56PMJust dropping this in:

My colleague Tim Coffman relates this Keith Brown (Indiana) advice:

"Never pass up the chance to shut the "blank" up!" (expletive deleted!!!)

Wish I could adhere to it some days!!!

That's right man!

ttf_brian7599
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:00 pm

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Post by ttf_brian7599 »

Hey. I would like to know more about what these "corporate" / soulless jobs are like. I see people mentioning weddings- what is it that is so bad about weddings? Or do you just get hired for the "here comes the bride" and not the reception? At the weddings I've been to, the people wanted some very specific things from the musicians, after which point they were pretty much free to do their own thing as long as it fit into the event, meaning plenty of romantic songs of different styles and that sort of thing are in the mix.

It seems to me that you get to play with people more than you otherwise would, so what makes you start seeing certain jobs as just bread-earning? Maybe the novelty of playing with others wears off for people who are free lancing, since they do it so much? Where I am now though, I like to play with anyone I can, even if it's not my thing, just because it's a chance to play with people. Of course I've never gotten more than a meal out of playing.

This is an interesting topic.
Post Reply

Return to “The Business of Music”