Is it me? Awkward Band Situation

ttf_Doug Elliott
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Is it me? Awkward Band Situation

Post by ttf_Doug Elliott » Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:56 pm

It's not "too late" to learn to play jazz.  All it takes is great ears, which I suspect you have, and a high tolerance for sucking at it and hating what comes out while you gradually get better at playing what you want to hear.

Not that there are any actual jazz gigs, but it's a worthwhile skill to have.
ttf_BillO
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Is it me? Awkward Band Situation

Post by ttf_BillO » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:46 pm

Quote if a singer jumps a verse to head to the bridge, you aren't thrown and can move with them immediately).
This sort of thing can play havoc with the rhythm folks and if that happens, things tumble a bit when the group are new to each other.  Consider the spot Megan is in.  She's never really played in this group before and has no idea of what people are likely to do.  That's why I suggested she try to get together with the section.  It would give her some first hand experience with them and learn from their experiences.

Circus music is frenetic.  If Megan can handle that, she has skills.  She just needs to transfer them and pick up some new ones to help the effort out.  Playing with her band-mates as much as possible will help.

4 days to go before the vocal workout.  Will you attend that?  How are you feeling Megan?   Did you get to play with any of the section?  I hope you've been listening to and mimicking the bone player in Phil Collins stuff 24/7 (well, ya know hat I mean) up till now.


ttf_BGuttman
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Is it me? Awkward Band Situation

Post by ttf_BGuttman » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:53 pm

Quote from: Doug Elliott on Jul 25, 2017, 07:56PMIt's not "too late" to learn to play jazz.  All it takes is great ears, which I suspect you have, and a high tolerance for sucking at it and hating what comes out while you gradually get better at playing what you want to hear.

Not that there are any actual jazz gigs, but it's a worthwhile skill to have.

Whoo!  I can understand that.  I'm at that "geez, I suck" point where I can't get the right notes out in a solo.  I guess the more I do the better it gets, but I don't get as much opportunity in the jazz band I play in since I'm bass trombone.  Ah, well.  There are always the play-alongs like Geezer uses.

Megan, I learned to play Dixieland at age 45.  You aren't too old.  Btw, a Dixieland band gets happy audiences.  And since it's somewhere between 5 and 7 musicians the venues can often afford to hire them.
ttf_MikeBMiller
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Is it me? Awkward Band Situation

Post by ttf_MikeBMiller » Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:52 am

Megan - please check your email, assuming the address in your profile is correct. I have a friend from KC who has some contacts out there.
ttf_ddickerson
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Is it me? Awkward Band Situation

Post by ttf_ddickerson » Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:41 am

Quote from: Jhereg on Jul 25, 2017, 07:34PM...it's really just that I don't know what direction to move in next. I feel frozen in place.


Life is a long journey and you never know what lies right around the corner in your life, so always look forward to what's next.

You may be feeling that you're in a dead end right now where you're at, and tomorrow has the potential to bring about opportunities you didn't even know existed today.

So, what to do?

Keep working on your skills and adding to them while you're in this 'frozen state', and keep what you're doing here; let people know what you're looking for. There are a lot of fellow trombone players on this forum, and eventually, one may be the exact one to help you.


 
 
ttf_BMadsen
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Is it me? Awkward Band Situation

Post by ttf_BMadsen » Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:01 am

Quote from: BillO on Jul 25, 2017, 09:46PMThis sort of thing can play havoc with the rhythm folks and if that happens, things tumble a bit when the group are new to each other.  Consider the spot Megan is in.  She's never really played in this group before and has no idea of what people are likely to do.  That's why I suggested she try to get together with the section.  It would give her some first hand experience with them and learn from their experiences.

Circus music is frenetic.  If Megan can handle that, she has skills.  She just needs to transfer them and pick up some new ones to help the effort out.  Playing with her band-mates as much as possible will help.

4 days to go before the vocal workout.  Will you attend that?  How are you feeling Megan?   Did you get to play with any of the section?  I hope you've been listening to and mimicking the bone player in Phil Collins stuff 24/7 (well, ya know hat I mean) up till now.



Fair enough, about the group being new. But, the bands REALLY doing top-40 work? They can do it without a second thought. Just like when playing with a jazz group with a vocalist, and the vocalist jumps in on the bridge of the tune even though it's supposed to be the top? Experienced sections move right with them - inexperienced don't and get flustered.

I believe she has the skills. Playing circus music is one of the toughest gigs out there. My point is that when moving into the top-40 world, so many of us horn players have deep seated expectations about what is provided, and the reality is, IF you want to work, you have to let them go. There IS work out there - and, some of it really well paying - but you have to be willing to step up, and learn the material as well as the band. And they likely won't have any charts for you. So, you learn it by ear at home, or write your own charts. A good strategy is to form a section that tries to book work together, and charge a little more than each of you would take to play the gig, and give the person writing the charts the overage for their efforts. If the section is tight and on top of it, it's usually possible to sell the slight overage.

I do know that a lot of these top-40 bands (or tribute bands, or anything involved in modern pop music) can be poorly run. And, if the money isn't there to make it worth it to deal with that, then it's worth skipping over them (or, if you are new in a scene, sticking with them for a time while you develop skills and a network). But, lack of charts, and lack of understanding why horn players might need charts, doesn't fall under that umbrella - it's a different world, a different way of learning and thinking about music, and it's important that we as horn players don't judge a band because they don't get that. Some of the tightest, busiest bands I've had the pleasure of playing with are run by rhythm section players (or singers) who have no charts and can do exactly what I've described. Embracing that mentality in the longer run can get you busier.
ttf_Jhereg
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Is it me? Awkward Band Situation

Post by ttf_Jhereg » Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:00 pm

Quote from: Doug Elliott on Jul 25, 2017, 07:56PMIt's not "too late" to learn to play jazz.  All it takes is great ears, which I suspect you have, and a high tolerance for sucking at it and hating what comes out while you gradually get better at playing what you want to hear.

Not that there are any actual jazz gigs, but it's a worthwhile skill to have.

Lol!! Thanks  Image Then I will work on my tolerance haha.
ttf_Jhereg
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Is it me? Awkward Band Situation

Post by ttf_Jhereg » Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:08 pm

Quote from: BillO on Jul 25, 2017, 09:46PMCircus music is frenetic.  If Megan can handle that, she has skills.  She just needs to transfer them and pick up some new ones to help the effort out.  Playing with her band-mates as much as possible will help.

4 days to go before the vocal workout.  Will you attend that?  How are you feeling Megan?   Did you get to play with any of the section?  I hope you've been listening to and mimicking the bone player in Phil Collins stuff 24/7 (well, ya know hat I mean) up till now.

I will try to take your advice here and be more objective about it. The opportunity just needs to present itself.

As far as I know, I won't be attending the vocal rehearsal (tomorrow). Have not had contact with anyone in this band since I first posted this topic.

No, I have not been listening to/mimicking the Phil Collins dude 24/7. My main income right now is music retail, and it's rental season (back to school). I haven't even been able to practice lately because my only spot to do so was at the retail store after hours, and interruptions there have been constant. People can see me through the windows, and will knock or pull on the door until I wait on them.

Starting this week I'm trying a local community college that has four practice rooms. Also starting this week the retail store goes into extended rental season hours, 10-6 Mon-Fri and Saturday 10-2, so I'm really banking on those practice rooms being open from 7pm on.
ttf_Jhereg
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Is it me? Awkward Band Situation

Post by ttf_Jhereg » Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:12 pm

Quote from: BMadsen on Jul 28, 2017, 06:01AMFair enough, about the group being new. But, the bands REALLY doing top-40 work? They can do it without a second thought. Just like when playing with a jazz group with a vocalist, and the vocalist jumps in on the bridge of the tune even though it's supposed to be the top? Experienced sections move right with them - inexperienced don't and get flustered.

I believe she has the skills. Playing circus music is one of the toughest gigs out there. My point is that when moving into the top-40 world, so many of us horn players have deep seated expectations about what is provided, and the reality is, IF you want to work, you have to let them go. There IS work out there - and, some of it really well paying - but you have to be willing to step up, and learn the material as well as the band. And they likely won't have any charts for you. So, you learn it by ear at home, or write your own charts. A good strategy is to form a section that tries to book work together, and charge a little more than each of you would take to play the gig, and give the person writing the charts the overage for their efforts. If the section is tight and on top of it, it's usually possible to sell the slight overage.

I do know that a lot of these top-40 bands (or tribute bands, or anything involved in modern pop music) can be poorly run. And, if the money isn't there to make it worth it to deal with that, then it's worth skipping over them (or, if you are new in a scene, sticking with them for a time while you develop skills and a network). But, lack of charts, and lack of understanding why horn players might need charts, doesn't fall under that umbrella - it's a different world, a different way of learning and thinking about music, and it's important that we as horn players don't judge a band because they don't get that. Some of the tightest, busiest bands I've had the pleasure of playing with are run by rhythm section players (or singers) who have no charts and can do exactly what I've described. Embracing that mentality in the longer run can get you busier.

Thank you. I appreciate your insight a lot. After Sunday, I'll poke the group and see if there are any resources for us, as far as writing charts. If we could even just pick five and get started, that would be great.
ttf_Jhereg
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Is it me? Awkward Band Situation

Post by ttf_Jhereg » Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:17 pm

Quote from: ddickerson on Jul 26, 2017, 07:41AMLife is a long journey and you never know what lies right around the corner in your life, so always look forward to what's next.

You may be feeling that you're in a dead end right now where you're at, and tomorrow has the potential to bring about opportunities you didn't even know existed today.

So, what to do?

Keep working on your skills and adding to them while you're in this 'frozen state', and keep what you're doing here; let people know what you're looking for. There are a lot of fellow trombone players on this forum, and eventually, one may be the exact one to help you.

Thank you. I will try.
Totally exactly how I feel right now, especially as I've had to stop practicing for a bit and look for a new space. I was hoping not to let my circus inertia fall off but it was pretty much bound to happen. The other thing is I'm trying to get back into the large bore AND keep up the small bore at the same time, and it's been a little weird switching between them haha. I'm sure many people here can relate to that issue!

You are right, and I need to decide what I'm looking for.
ttf_Jhereg
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Is it me? Awkward Band Situation

Post by ttf_Jhereg » Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:17 pm

Quote from: ddickerson on Jul 26, 2017, 07:41AMLife is a long journey and you never know what lies right around the corner in your life, so always look forward to what's next.

You may be feeling that you're in a dead end right now where you're at, and tomorrow has the potential to bring about opportunities you didn't even know existed today.

So, what to do?

Keep working on your skills and adding to them while you're in this 'frozen state', and keep what you're doing here; let people know what you're looking for. There are a lot of fellow trombone players on this forum, and eventually, one may be the exact one to help you.

Thank you. I will try.
Totally exactly how I feel right now, especially as I've had to stop practicing for a bit and look for a new space. I was hoping not to let my circus inertia fall off but it was pretty much bound to happen. The other thing is I'm trying to get back into the large bore AND keep up the small bore at the same time, and it's been a little weird switching between them haha. I'm sure many people here can relate to that issue!

You are right, and I need to decide what I'm looking for.
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