I really need help in figuring this out. Can someone help me?

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ttf_anonymous
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I really need help in figuring this out. Can someone help me?

Post by ttf_anonymous » Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:36 pm

I have a question on hitting notes on trombone. There are so many ways to hit a note on trombone. Like you can make a note sound high or you make it sound low and big. Should I try to keep it consistent with how I hit notes or does it not matter too much? When I slur up to a note, it generally sounds higher than if I was to attack it alone? Does this technicality matter? When I try to slur notes with a big sound, I usually I have trouble. any help would be appreciated as I am in a state of confusion and don't know what to do.
ttf_Posaunus
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I really need help in figuring this out. Can someone help me?

Post by ttf_Posaunus » Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:32 pm

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1. Ask your band director (if she / he knows anything about trombone playing) for help.

2. Ask your band director to give you a recommendation for a good, patient trombone teacher.

3. Take trombone lessons, and do what your trombone teacher asks.

You will be amazed at how quickly you progress!   

 Image
ttf_Georgilocks
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I really need help in figuring this out. Can someone help me?

Post by ttf_Georgilocks » Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:15 pm

Okay, I'll make sure to do so. I've been playing trombone for a pretty long time now. It's just that I want to figure out the kinks and technical stuff.
ttf_timothy42b
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I really need help in figuring this out. Can someone help me?

Post by ttf_timothy42b » Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:24 pm

Without hearing you play, totally guessing what you're asking

steady air.  That's much harder to do than it sounds.

consistent tone across as much of the register as you can.

And then, fit it to the music.  If a note speaks much louder because of the range of the horn, but it's not an important note in the musical phrase, you're doing it wrong. 
ttf_Georgilocks
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I really need help in figuring this out. Can someone help me?

Post by ttf_Georgilocks » Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:31 pm

Basically what I'm asking is if I should strive for a more lower backend to a note or a more higher and bright sound to a note?
ttf_LowrBrass
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I really need help in figuring this out. Can someone help me?

Post by ttf_LowrBrass » Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:31 pm

Ah. I thought you were asking about intonation.


Sound-concept-wise, that's up to you, innit? I usually strive for a big fat mellow melted-chocolate liquid-gold sound, especially when I'm playing symphonic stuff, but that's me.

It can depend heavily on the style of music you're playing.

You can choose to play however you like, but it should be a conscious choice, not something you do because you can't do it any other way.

I would definitely advise you to strive for a consistent tone within a single piece of music.


Quote from: Georgilocks on Yesterday at 01:36 PMWhen I slur up to a note, it generally sounds higher than if I was to attack it alone? Does this technicality matter? When I try to slur notes with a big sound, I usually I have trouble.
^ This worries me. Without seeing you play, and without being a Real Expert Trombonist... I'd say that yes, it matters, and you should make sure you can play with a consistent sound, no matter what the articulation.

Someone once pointed out to me that my low range was weak because--short version of the story--I wasn't going directly to where my embouchure needed to be to produce that note--i.e. I wiggled my face around a little (while playing) as I was trying to find my embouchure for the note, which resulted in wobbly pitch, inconsistent tone, and a tendency to clam notes.

Maybe that's what you're doing, too--when you attack, you're setting your embouchure exactly where it needs to be, so your tone is "big"; but when you slur, you aren't fully adjusting your embouchure from the previous note, so you're trying to play a note with the wrong embouchure, and the tone is "small."

What I did for *my* problem--which might help you, if it's similar to your issue--was slow (and eventually sped up) slurring mouthpiece drills, off and then on the horn, practicing precision in transitioning from note to note. Note -> note, not Note -> wiggle-around-uhhhh-THERE'S-the-Note.




P.S. Don't move your mouthpiece on your face.

P.P.S. I agree that a real-life teacher would be able to diagnose the problem/solution better than we can.
P.P.P.S. And I agree with everything else Tim and Posanus said.
ttf_robcat2075
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I really need help in figuring this out. Can someone help me?

Post by ttf_robcat2075 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:32 pm

Quote from: Georgilocks on Yesterday at 06:31 PMBasically what I'm asking is if I should strive for a more lower backend to a note or a more higher and bright sound to a note?

Words are very imperfect ways to describe sound. 

Backend? Back end?   

To me that means the end of the note but I'm guessing you mean something else. I did  a search, it's not a term anyone uses to describe trombone sound on this forum other than the very end of a note.

Rather than look for verbal advice on a forum I'd suggest yo find an example of trombone sound you like and strive for that.

ttf_Georgilocks
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I really need help in figuring this out. Can someone help me?

Post by ttf_Georgilocks » Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:17 pm

I appreciate the responses. I was inded moving my face in trying to hit the tones tgys making way for a weak and "puny" sound. I just wanted to know if that was correct or not. I have no idea why I worded it as "lower backend",poor choice of words by me. I was referring to a darker tone with more of a lower end to it. A comparison being, should I strive for a big sound like Joe Alessi, or a more bright sound, like Jorgen Van Rijen(my perception at least, this is open for interpretation).

Thanks for the help,

Now I know exactly what to do. Image
ttf_Matt K
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I really need help in figuring this out. Can someone help me?

Post by ttf_Matt K » Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:35 am

QuoteA comparison being, should I strive for a big sound like Joe Alessi, or a more bright sound, like Jorgen Van Rijen(my perception at least, this is open for interpretation).
There is no other objective way to say whether you "should" sound like a dichotomy of two great trombonists. That and I would suggest that most of the differences you hear from those two are from recordings where the audio engineers have modified the sound to work better on a recording.  If you can sound like either of them you are doing fine!

What you "should" do is try to figure out what those two players have in common, not what is different between them! Because there is a whole lot of similarity between them.  And really all great trombonists and further out... really great musicians in general. And the way they got to where they were is they all had at least one great mentor who helped them along the way. 

At least that's my 2c!
ttf_Posaunus
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I really need help in figuring this out. Can someone help me?

Post by ttf_Posaunus » Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:36 am

Quote from: Matt K on Today at 08:35 AMAnd the way they got to where they were is they all had at least one great "mentor" who helped them along the way. 

 Image

If not a "mentor" at least a fine trombone teacher.  And a good ear, so you can learn from how other trombonists are playing. 
ttf_timothy42b
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I really need help in figuring this out. Can someone help me?

Post by ttf_timothy42b » Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:38 am

Quote from: Posaunus on Today at 09:36 AM Image

If not a "mentor" at least a fine trombone teacher.  And a good ear, so you can learn from how other trombonists are playing. 

Still, we have something most of them didn't:  youtube. 
ttf_Matt K
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I really need help in figuring this out. Can someone help me?

Post by ttf_Matt K » Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:46 am

Quote from: timothy42b on Today at 09:38 AMStill, we have something most of them didn't:  youtube. 

For better, or for worse  Image
ttf_savio
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I really need help in figuring this out. Can someone help me?

Post by ttf_savio » Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:34 pm

From what you write I'm guessing you have not played that long? The important thing is to have a pitch in your head. There is many methods, long notes, scales, a known melody, slow lipslurs, glizz from one pitch to another. Do it in a register you feel comfortable and then expand it.  Listen your favorite trombone player and listen what they really do. Don't except to sound the same but strive for a direction. We all have our own sound in the end. A good teacher, pation and lot of trying is your friend. Enjoy every step you make and always be curious!

Leif
ttf_trb420
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I really need help in figuring this out. Can someone help me?

Post by ttf_trb420 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:36 pm

Have you considered posting a recording of you playing? Because (although I'm totally unqualified to give advice), it would be easier to assess your strengths and weaknesses if people actually heard you play
ttf_ntap
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I really need help in figuring this out. Can someone help me?

Post by ttf_ntap » Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:57 pm

It's great that you are considering the color of sound coming out of your bell, and you seem to be in control of the mechanics to make those changes. This is a good thing!

Strive to use the colors based on the musical context, where you feel the trombone needs to cut through the band or match certain instruments.  When I am blending with a higher instrument, like trumpet, I use the higher, brighter sound. If I am playing a passage with a lower saxophone or cello, I use a darker sound.  Use your musical compass for this, strive to produce the sound in your head that matches the music context you are in at the time.

Develop this musical compass by listening to lots and lots of music.  Check out Fritz Reiner conducting the Chicago Symphony Orchestra and Quincy Jones' big band albums for great examples of trombone sections that blend well with others.   

Master the attacks (the very fronts of the articulation) with these colors - practice making your attacks clear and consistent with a metronome - the start of the note should be clear and hit exactly when the metronome beat hits. 

Make sure your pitch is right on - play your scales with a drone pitch or a tuner.  Even better, put on a drone and practice clear consistent articulations with the metronome and drone at the same time. 

Don't let your confusion close you off to what you are discovering!  Get some lessons with a professional, face to face is always best, but sometimes Skype works too.  Good luck!  Have a wonderful time! 
ttf_ntap
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Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am

I really need help in figuring this out. Can someone help me?

Post by ttf_ntap » Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:57 pm

It's great that you are considering the color of sound coming out of your bell, and you seem to be in control of the mechanics to make those changes. This is a good thing!

Strive to use the colors based on the musical context, where you feel the trombone needs to cut through the band or match certain instruments.  When I am blending with a higher instrument, like trumpet, I use the higher, brighter sound. If I am playing a passage with a lower saxophone or cello, I use a darker sound.  Use your musical compass for this, strive to produce the sound in your head that matches the music context you are in at the time.

Develop this musical compass by listening to lots and lots of music.  Check out Fritz Reiner conducting the Chicago Symphony Orchestra and Quincy Jones' big band albums for great examples of trombone sections that blend well with others.   

Master the attacks (the very fronts of the articulation) with these colors - practice making your attacks clear and consistent with a metronome - the start of the note should be clear and hit exactly when the metronome beat hits. 

Make sure your pitch is right on - play your scales with a drone pitch or a tuner.  Even better, put on a drone and practice clear consistent articulations with the metronome and drone at the same time. 

Don't let your confusion close you off to what you are discovering!  Get some lessons with a professional, face to face is always best, but sometimes Skype works too.  Good luck!  Have a wonderful time! 
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