Notation question

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ttf_jackbird
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Notation question

Post by ttf_jackbird » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:30 pm

I've got a question about notation, not sure how to interpret it. In a big band 1st bone part I have an Eb above the staff with a turn (sideways S) going to up to an F. If it went down, I'd know how to deal with it - just a flip. But it goes up, so I'm massively confused about what to do. What sort of jazz ornament is that and does anyone have a recorded instance of it? Maybe some sweet technologically endowed soul would record and post a 10 second clip for me.

Thanks!
ttf_harrison.t.reed
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Notation question

Post by ttf_harrison.t.reed » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:40 pm

3rd 4th 1st 1st

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Or maybe down to a C?

Lip slurred

maybe?
ttf_Full Pedal Trombonist
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Notation question

Post by ttf_Full Pedal Trombonist » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:09 pm

Is it a line you’re playing with other horns? Or do the other trombones have a turn also but to lower notes? Could be that it’s an arrangement by someone not thinking of all the elements like when you see impossible glisses. Or an engraving problem and it was supposed to be a scoop or a gliss.
ttf_Doug Elliott
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Notation question

Post by ttf_Doug Elliott » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:40 pm

Don't always take ornaments like that too seriously.  Lots of arrangers who don't play trombone (and even some who do) write things like that that aren't even possible.  Like plunger on a trigger note....  Or cup mute on a low G or below.
ttf_jackbird
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Notation question

Post by ttf_jackbird » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:52 pm

Quote from: Full Pedal Trombonist on Oct 15, 2017, 08:09PMIs it a line you’re playing with other horns? Or do the other trombones have a turn also but to lower notes? Could be that it’s an arrangement by someone not thinking of all the elements like when you see impossible glisses. Or an engraving problem and it was supposed to be a scoop or a gliss.

I only have the 1st bone part. Haven't read it with the band yet. Its a hand written part.

I was thinking maybe a flip up to G and back down to F. Not a strictly correct classical turn or mordent, but stylistically in the neighborhood.
ttf_Full Pedal Trombonist
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Notation question

Post by ttf_Full Pedal Trombonist » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:59 pm

I’d leave it out until I’m with the band and ask the leader or the stranger if possible. To a degree stylistic cues can really be left to the ones playing assuming the players know what’s appropriate for the tune.
ttf_robcat2075
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Notation question

Post by ttf_robcat2075 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:14 pm

If Eb is primary note and F is the target, doesn't the turn go F-Eb-D-Eb?

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ttf_SilverBone
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Notation question

Post by ttf_SilverBone » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:26 pm

In big band charts, I frequently see turns notated when a classical turn is not what's expected.  I would play the OP's described example like Eb, gracenote G, F.
ttf_jackbird
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Notation question

Post by ttf_jackbird » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:34 pm

Quote from: robcat2075 on Oct 15, 2017, 09:14PMIf Eb is primary note and F is the target, doesn't the turn go F-Eb-D-Eb?

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Yeah, but we're not talking about Rochut here. Its White Christmas by Irving Berlin, arranged by Roger Holmes. Copyright 1942. Happens twice in the tune. You guys have probably played this a hundred times. I was just looking through the Christmas book.

 QuoteIn  big band charts, I frequently see turns notated when a classical turn is not what's expected.  I would play the OP's described example like Eb, gracenote G, F.
That's what I'm going with unless I get a better suggestion. Thanks for the ideas, all!
ttf_Stan
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Notation question

Post by ttf_Stan » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:38 am

Sounds like Eb(do a flip) end on F.  Just a little wiggle really, between long 3 and F in 4.
ttf_Stan
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Notation question

Post by ttf_Stan » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:38 am

Sounds like Eb(do a flip) end on F.  Just a little wiggle really, between long 3 and F in 4.
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