Schumann on a 160 year old trombone

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ttf_Tim Dowling
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Schumann on a 160 year old trombone

Post by ttf_Tim Dowling » Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:39 pm

I had the pleasure today of playing on a J.C. Penzel alto trombone that was probably built in the 1850's or earlier. There is no date on it but the decorations and materials ( no nickel silver or snake decorations) point to an early date Penzels career. This is an instrument very much in the Sattler tradition. I made a little demo. It's a superb instrument!

http://youtu.be/-9ci8mdM108

ttf_anonymous
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Schumann on a 160 year old trombone

Post by ttf_anonymous » Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:19 pm

Fantastic! It seems to be closely related to the later Heckel design, which was copied by Arno Windisch in the 1950s. (See https://www.edwardsolomon.co.uk/about for my Windisch alto.)
ttf_Dukesboneman
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Schumann on a 160 year old trombone

Post by ttf_Dukesboneman » Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:21 pm

Bautiful sound. Thanks
ttf_harrison.t.reed
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Schumann on a 160 year old trombone

Post by ttf_harrison.t.reed » Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:33 pm

 Image
ttf_Tbonedude
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Schumann on a 160 year old trombone

Post by ttf_Tbonedude » Thu Jul 07, 2016 5:56 pm

I would never have expected that fantastic of a sound to come out of that little bell!
ttf_robcat2075
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Schumann on a 160 year old trombone

Post by ttf_robcat2075 » Thu Jul 07, 2016 6:06 pm

that was great to hear!
ttf_Tim Dowling
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Schumann on a 160 year old trombone

Post by ttf_Tim Dowling » Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:31 pm

Quote from: Edward_Solomon on Jul 07, 2016, 02:19PMFantastic! It seems to be closely related to the later Heckel design, which was copied by Arno Windisch in the 1950s. (See https://www.edwardsolomon.co.uk/about for my Windisch alto.)

Also the Kruspe altos I've seen have this size bell. Bell measures 150mm. But the flare is dramatic. Like he used a trumpet bell form and extended it. The bell throat is fairly narrow. And the bell bow is hardly conical at all. No tuning slide of course...
ttf_OneStepBeyond
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Schumann on a 160 year old trombone

Post by ttf_OneStepBeyond » Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:35 am

Quote from: Tbonedude on Jul 07, 2016, 05:56PMI would never have expected that fantastic of a sound to come out of that little bell!

I have to second this. As someone who grew up in a family of violists and crossed over to the trombone, I've always wished to find some with more history but not at the expense of quality. The sound was clear and still had a darker tone than a trumpet, even with such a small bell. Fantastic!
ttf_bbocaner
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Schumann on a 160 year old trombone

Post by ttf_bbocaner » Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:47 am

lovely! thanks for sharing!
ttf_Gabe Langfur
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Schumann on a 160 year old trombone

Post by ttf_Gabe Langfur » Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:38 pm

Wonderful!

Toby Oft of the Boston Symphony very much likes the Thein alto that seems to be patterned on this style of instrument, and several of his students in Boston are playing Theins with small bells like that. There's a similar character, with a very dense and focused core but also a beautiful bloom and aura around it.
ttf_Tim Dowling
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Schumann on a 160 year old trombone

Post by ttf_Tim Dowling » Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:02 pm

The Thein is a beautiful alto (I have played on one) and I think the bell is modelled after a Kruspe alto, which has a rather larger slide bore than the Penzel. But the bell diameter is similar for sure. The throat of the Penzel bell is probably considerably narrower although I don't have a direct comparison. What struck me immediately was the excellent intonation up the partials on the Penzel. The only Kruspe alto I played was also superb, and without tuning slide like the Penzel.
ttf_Edward_Solomon
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Schumann on a 160 year old trombone

Post by ttf_Edward_Solomon » Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:48 pm

Quote from: Tim Dowling on Sep 27, 2016, 11:02PMThe Thein is a beautiful alto (I have played on one) and I think the bell is modelled after a Kruspe alto, which has a rather larger slide bore than the Penzel. But the bell diameter is similar for sure. The throat of the Penzel bell is probably considerably narrower although I don't have a direct comparison. What struck me immediately was the excellent intonation up the partials on the Penzel. The only Kruspe alto I played was also superb, and without tuning slide like the Penzel.

Ditto that for my Arno Windisch alto, which I remember you trying several years ago when you were in London, Tim.
ttf_anonymous
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Schumann on a 160 year old trombone

Post by ttf_anonymous » Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:58 pm

Very interesting.

thanks for posting this!
ttf_sackbut-Nate
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Schumann on a 160 year old trombone

Post by ttf_sackbut-Nate » Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:10 pm

Dear Mr. Dowling,

Thank you for sharing this clip of you playing on the original Penzel alto - that instrument is a treasure, and you make it sound absolutely lovely.

Do you think the collector would mind if I paid a visit with a camera and some measuring tools? I think a good Romantic alto is something the market could use...

Also, please keep me posted on when you're in Belgium; I'm spending a lot of time near Brussels these days, and if we happened to overlap there, it would be fun to meet up for a pint. (Brussels Beer Project always has interesting things on tap!)

With warmest wishes, currently from frosty Amsterdam,
Nathaniel Wood
ttf_baroquetrombone
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Schumann on a 160 year old trombone

Post by ttf_baroquetrombone » Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:39 am

Quote from: sackbut-Nate on Feb 11, 2017, 05:10PMI think a good Romantic alto is something the market could use...

Yes please! I've been looking for an original for years and missed out on the ONE I saw for sale.
ttf_baroquetrombone
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Schumann on a 160 year old trombone

Post by ttf_baroquetrombone » Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:39 am

Quote from: sackbut-Nate on Feb 11, 2017, 05:10PMI think a good Romantic alto is something the market could use...

Yes please! I've been looking for an original for years and missed out on the ONE I saw for sale.
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