How do you stop using excessive pressure in the high register?

ttf_trb420 · Post by **ttf_trb420** » Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:48 pm

I can play relaxed with an appropriate amount of pressure up to about F, maybe Eb when I'm tired, but from F# and up I can't really stay relaxed and I start forcing the mouthpiece against my face. I practice a lot already, so I don't know whether it will eventually resolve itself or if I'm doing something wrong. I know what my embouchure motion is and how to pivot so that's not the issue. I just want to eventually get that effortless high range that good players have and I don't really know how to get there.

ttf_baileyman · Post by **ttf_baileyman** » Sat Apr 08, 2017 4:41 pm

You may have to do some exploring in the way things work.

Pressure helps a little to play higher, and you probably do that because you have some success with it. But there are other things to do that help better.

In another thread I listed three of them: more "air", smaller aperture, tongue moving forward and up. It's easy to try to isolate these on some easy notes like F -> Bb in the staff. Try getting from F to Bb and back by suddenly adding air. Then try by contracting the aperture. Then try by moving the tongue. Heck you can even try adding pressure for comparison.

If you can get that working, then you have your work set out for you. All over the horn work the same ideas and let your body figure out how it works. Good time and lots of repetition is key.

You'll likely find later that there are notes that behave funny anyway, but for different reasons that these. sabutin has methods to iron it all out.

ttf_bigbassbone1 · Post by **ttf_bigbassbone1** » Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:38 pm

My favorite way is just matching registers. By tgat i mean, for example, play just one line from your bordogni etude book as written. Work on making that short phrase sound super easy. Make your best possible sound on every note. Once you have those few bars working as best as you are able to, play exactly the same phrase in tenor clef. Really focus on demanding the same quality of sound as you achieved at the original pitch. Focus on having your body expect it to feel just as easy. If something doesn't work, thats fine! Go back to playing the original pitch where everything sounded and felt great! Remind yourself of what to expect, and try in tenor clef again.
Once your tenor clef version sounds as good as your original pitch, do the same thing but in alto clef, treble clef etc....

Of course, if one line in a bordogni is too long, it really doesn't matter how small you start, one bar, 2 notes whatever! The important thing is getting used to expecting trombone to feel and sound easy.

Then when you are feeling brave, do it all again but articulated, trying to match articulations. Thats hard!

ttf_timothy42b · Post by **ttf_timothy42b** » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:29 pm

If you know your motion you've seen a good Reinhardt teacher like Doug.

Obviously there is more to that high range than just motion. You might want to ask somebody what your personal next step should be.

Failing that - you may not have access - try to play near some people who have it and listen to what they're doing. There are some exercises in the Reinhardt routines book that are supposed to help. I think they probably will, if you do them right. I'm never sure I'm doing anything right! But compression 3, flip, and approach are all supposed to get you up there, and all a bit tricky to do right.

ttf_Pre59 · Post by **ttf_Pre59** » Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:31 am

Try diverting some of that pressure inwards i.e. concentrate on creating a smaller buzz. Flexibilities should help you to do this.

ttf_bonenick · Post by **ttf_bonenick** » Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:43 am

Quote from: Pre59 on Apr 09, 2017, 01:31AM Flexibilities should help you to do this.

Agreed, better in soft dynamics. And frequent short rests.

ttf_vegasbound · Post by **ttf_vegasbound** » Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:53 am

Have a skype lesson with Doug Elliott

ttf_cigmar · Post by **ttf_cigmar** » Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:45 am

One thing that helped me immensely with this is to create a better seal between the lips ins the area from outside the mouthpiece rim to the corners. For lack of a better description, I think of "pressing" the upper and lower lips together being careful to confining the "pressing" to outside the mouthpiece while the same time leaving the lip area inside the mouthpiece relaxed. As you ascend think of increasing this "pressing" while at the same time compressing the lips toward the center to create a smaller aperture. The other things mentioned, i.e. tongue level, proper air amount and support, also play a huge role of course. For me, I think I was substituting mouthpiece pressure to compensate for the lack of a proper seal. My security, tone quality, and intonation also greatly improved not only in the upper register, but in all registers. Just my two cents.

ttf_hyperbolica · Post by **ttf_hyperbolica** » Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:39 am

To get a good high range, I make sure I'm getting a good buzz. Practice buzzing with no mouthpiece. Small aperture, big air support. Buzz ascending scales just a couple minutes a day, and you will feel a difference in a few days. If the chops can make the high pitch just from buzzing, you don't need mouthpiece pressure beyond what it takes to make the seal.

ttf_bonenick · Post by **ttf_bonenick** » Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:48 am

Quote from: hyperbolica on Apr 09, 2017, 06:39AMTo get a good high range, I make sure I'm getting a good buzz.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-ZMQ1xvzJM

ttf_blast · Post by **ttf_blast** » Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:59 am

Quote from: hyperbolica on Apr 09, 2017, 06:39AMTo get a good high range, I make sure I'm getting a good buzz. Practice buzzing with no mouthpiece. Small aperture, big air support. Buzz ascending scales just a couple minutes a day, and you will feel a difference in a few days. If the chops can make the high pitch just from buzzing, you don't need mouthpiece pressure beyond what it takes to make the seal.

That works....
Sounds simple... as most good advice does, but can be tricky to do by yourself..
best see a good teacher one-to-one. I am not convinced that skype is a good medium for this kind of work.

Chris Stearn

ttf_Doug Elliott · Post by **ttf_Doug Elliott** » Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:06 am

I have had extremely good results from Skype lessons and it has enabled me to teach players all over the world who otherwise wouldn't have access. Quite a few from this forum.

ttf_blast · Post by **ttf_blast** » Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:00 am

Quote from: Doug Elliott on Apr 09, 2017, 08:06AMI have had extremely good results from Skype lessons and it has enabled me to teach players all over the world who otherwise wouldn't have access. Quite a few from this forum.

And I've had to deal with players who have ended up more confused after Skype lessons... I will have to respectfully differ from you on this one Doug.

Chris Stearn

ttf_blast · Post by **ttf_blast** » Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:00 am

Quote from: Doug Elliott on Apr 09, 2017, 08:06AMI have had extremely good results from Skype lessons and it has enabled me to teach players all over the world who otherwise wouldn't have access. Quite a few from this forum.

And I've had to deal with players who have ended up more confused after Skype lessons... I will have to respectfully differ from you on this one Doug.

Chris Stearn