Self Evaluation, how good are you at the trombone?

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DakoJack
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Self Evaluation, how good are you at the trombone?

Post by DakoJack »

I spend a lot of time thinking about my skill level on the trombone both in terms of personal goals and in comparison to others as well as how I let that affect me in different situations such as practice, looking for gigs, performance etc....
My question is how do you evaluate yourself as a trombonist and how do you deal with that when it comes to different aspects of playing performance or progression?
I think it would be interesting to gather everyone's thoughts. I am interested in how you view yourself as a player and if this has an effect on playing situations. I think this could be an interesting study from anyone highschool student all the way to a Joe Alessi type. We're all different as people but also maybe we could learn from each other.
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DakoJack
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Re: Self Evaluation, how good are you at the trombone?

Post by DakoJack »

To answer my own question since I'm asking for others opinion and for anyone thats curious since I did ask. I think in general I am super humble and at times maybe even self defeating this probably extends to my personality outside of the trombone and I don't think I was always this way in different periods of my life I've been in different places with this. I think that this attitude comes from a lot of factors, in general I admire humble players at high levels as well as the trombone not being the trumpet it's not an arrogant instrument (no offense trumpet players but you know what I mean). I think that this mentality serves me well in a lot of situations, when I practice I am able to be honest with myself and never being satisfied with where I am pushes me to be better and is probably how I am where I am now. That being said there is a definite negative to this I frequently struggle to find joy with my playing or how I am playing and that leads to a bad headspace. I have in recent years learned to "turn off self doubt" in a lot of playing situations I don't have 100% success rate with this but I think a lot of these thoughts have come from a sports mentality if you go to the plate thinking your gonna strikeout results are worse than when you think you are gonna hit a homerun. I don't feel I have this figured out, I'm not sure anyone does but I do think an open conversation about it is important especially when interacting with students and trying to handle their mindset in a way that is not harmful.
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harrisonreed
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Re: Self Evaluation, how good are you at the trombone?

Post by harrisonreed »

You didn't actually answer your question. "How good are you at the trombone?" Dare you to! :biggrin:

Here's mine:



I suck! Hopefully I suck a little less each day. But I struggle in a way that is unique to me.
imsevimse
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Re: Self Evaluation, how good are you at the trombone?

Post by imsevimse »

Actually I do not think of this as a problem anymore, but I did in the past. When I studied at the Royal Accademy of Music in Stockholm 1984-88 I thought of myself as the "worst player" and my confidence wasn't very good. I was also always very nervous. After I graduated I took care of my anxiety problem and that changed things to the better and I started to freelance, but realized this wasn't the life I wanted. After I switched carreer 1996 to become a computer programmer I never think of music as competition anymore. Now I just want to play. If someone can play higher? I don't care. Lower? I dont care. Faster? I don't care. Louder? Softer? Knows all patterns? I don't care, good for them, but it has nothing to do with me. I do my best to improve all aspects of my playing but to me what is most important is what music feels like, and my friends

If you want more you can read my profile :-)

/Tom
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BGuttman
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Re: Self Evaluation, how good are you at the trombone?

Post by BGuttman »

Tom's analysis is my feeling as well. I never was as adept as some of you who are professional. I was once called "almost professional" by a conductor and have adopted that as a comical rating. I know I won't pass most orchestral auditions. I'm never going to be a good fill as 1st or 2nd in a Jazz Band, nor am I that good a bass trombone to win a paid chair. I think I play a little better than most amateurs and I leave it at that. Now I'm effectively "retired" from regular playing and don't have the need to constantly improve my skills so my practice sessions are more for enjoyment than anything else.
Bruce Guttman
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Mr412
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Re: Self Evaluation, how good are you at the trombone?

Post by Mr412 »

I also agree with Tom! Mike drop!
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Re: Self Evaluation, how good are you at the trombone?

Post by Burgerbob »

:idk:
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Re: Self Evaluation, how good are you at the trombone?

Post by atopper333 »

I was being prepped for High School All-State/college band/lead jazz trombone, all that good stuff in high school. I had a real joy of playing which I ALLOWED others to take that away by letting them push me to work on my improv, solo concert skills, and take over being a low brass section leader. It was pushed so hard it became more of an obligation with me letting others define my skills and ability by some unknown standard.

Self doubt? Sure! Was I as good or better than other in the state? Probably and probably not. I think the question is only one you can answer yourself. I guess it depends on the measure. I would imagine if you make a living playing music, you will have to pay attention to what others say about how good you are as you are earning a job. Can’t speak on that too much as I have no experience in that realm of existence. Hats off to you professionals out there, that’s hard work and I’m way to scared not to have a known steady paycheck coming in. That would terrify me honestly.

I agree with Tom and think of playing in the same aspects as harrisonreed…

It is unique to every individual player I think. Every time I pick up the horn I look to enjoy myself and to ultimately….suck less!
blap73
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Re: Self Evaluation, how good are you at the trombone?

Post by blap73 »

Not nearly as good as I'd like to be.
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LeTromboniste
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Re: Self Evaluation, how good are you at the trombone?

Post by LeTromboniste »

Good thread! I think there is one important and too often ignored aspect to this conversation. Some of you might have read Sasha Romero's fabulous post on the Facebook group a few days ago (if you haven't, I strongly encourage you to!), and I would abound in the same direction.

We have a tendency, especially in classical brass circles, and especially in North America, to have a very narrow definition of what "being good" means. It's embodied by very specific qualities and skills that are desirable for very specific types of playing, and anyone who displays qualities that depart from those tend to be stigmatized and seen as "not good" (even when those desirable qualities that they might lack would be seen as plainly unmusical by many other non-brass musicians!). There is this cliché but rather widespread view that spending time learning skills that don't align with this very narrow definition of success is a waste of time, and something to be discouraged (or at the very least, not encouraged), and that musicians who choose alternate paths *must* be doing so because they're just not good enough. It's the "violists are all failed violinists" joke applied to brass. They might or might not have been "good enough" at the very specific skillset to attain the conventional success, and frankly it shouldn't be relevant. Even if they were not, there's a whole world of art outside of that small box, and they might very well be a lot better at certain outside-the-box things than someone who succeeds within the box could ever be.

That doesn't help anyone and certainly doesn't help art, and contributes to too many musicians feeling bad about their playing and dreading "failure" instead of recognizing and exploring their musical and artistic potential, which might be found in other directions.



To answer the question about myself, I was very much stuck in that mindset when studying modern trombone, with lots of negative thoughts, doubts and bad self-esteem despite having some success and also having periods of high confidence. It was just never enough, and a constant fear of "not making it". I found escape from those feelings with conducting, which fueled my love for music and allowed me to keep going with the trombone and consider myself a good musician. I can't say if I was "good" at the trombone or not. For my age and expected level, I guess yes. I thought then (and now) that I might have had the potential to become "good enough" to have success with the conventional path, and eventually win an audition, but I'll never know as I made a conscious decision to not even try to find out, and instead changed directions. And a gigantic weight lifted off my shoulders that I never knew was there. A whole world of possibilities opened up, and prospects for the future became so much more positive because now it was all in my hands, my future career was mine to build. I learned more new skills in the first few weeks than I had in years before. Suddenly I wasn't just trying to hit the same nail with the same hammer more and more efficiently and reliably, I was using a drill, a saw, a knife....

How good am I now? I don't know if I can ever quantify that, and I'm not sure I care. I'm having some success, I'm happy with my playing, and most importantly, I'm just having a huge amount of fun. I'll keep improving and try to always become better at the skills I already have, and learn new skills, and actually push the enveloppe of my playing, and try to have always more fun.
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hyperbolica
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Re: Self Evaluation, how good are you at the trombone?

Post by hyperbolica »

35 years ago I was pretty good technically on the trombone. I could do a lot of things physically that I can't today. But somehow, I'm a better musician today. I used to practice all sorts of technical stuff I can't even begin to do. I used to have a lot of lung capacity I don't have today. But now I can read music a lot better. I understand rhythm a lot better. I think I play better in tune. I can lead a group now where I couldn't do that before. I do arranging now that's much better than 30 years ago.

I'm sad about what I've lost, but I've gained a lot of other things to be happy about.

Also, 35 years ago I aspired to be a pro player. Now having been there and done that, I still aspire to play to the ideal in my head, but I see what musical professionals have to endure, and I wouldn't go back to that. I enjoyed the high level of playing, but at the cost of lowering the level of a lot of other things in life.

Its important to have self-critical skills, but it's also important to see the bigger picture. Being very single minded about something is ok as long as someone has your back with the details of life. Focusing on one thing to the exclusion of all else is in my view unhealthy.
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Mr412
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Re: Self Evaluation, how good are you at the trombone?

Post by Mr412 »

Like a few others above whom I can identify with, I am experiencing old age vs the trombone. There are some days where my chops - - - - fracture, for lack of a better term and they want to vibrate differently in different areas on the same lip. It's fatigue from the previous day. It'll go away if I warm up long enough. Otherwise, I require very little, if any warm-up.

I too understand music a whole lot better and have made great advances in understanding chords and progressions.

The sound that comes out of my horn, while not on a tremendously high level in terms of technique, is the best it's ever been; very consistent through the registers. I can play pretty, if not busy.

So, all-in-all, I am happy that I can play well enough for my own enjoyment and I now play for pure entertainment.
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Re: Self Evaluation, how good are you at the trombone?

Post by Mikebmiller »

I am the best player in my house and possibly on my street. I am good enough to get frustated at community band people that can't play hard music, but not good enought to win any audition that pays much money. I can play lead bone in my jazz band as long as you don't ask me to do any solos that aren't 12 bar blues. I can play one or two Broadway shows a year at my local theater, but never get called by touring Broadway shows. I can lead a brass quintet but will never get mistaken for the Canadian Brass. I subbed a couple of times in my local symphony but they will never call me again as there are new guys in town that have actual music degrees and more orchestra experience. On a 1 - 10 scale, if a beginner is a 1 and Joe Alessi is a 10, I'm probably a 7.35. But I really love playing and it's the one thing I can still do at a higher level than when I was young, unlike cycling and other outdoor persuits.
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Re: Self Evaluation, how good are you at the trombone?

Post by deanmccarty »

After 43 years I’m still working at it… there’s always room for growth. I don’t know anyone who is 100% happy with their playing.
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Re: Self Evaluation, how good are you at the trombone?

Post by Chronos91 »

Honestly, not that good. I grew up playing saxes and kept it up in community band in college and beyond but only came to trombone in 2021. If I had to guess, on trombone I'm probably around the level of an 8th-9th grader that actually practices some at home.

Especially coming from an instrument that I'm pretty comfortable on, it's pretty easy to get frustrated that I'm not in the same sort of place on trombone. In the community jazz band I just joined, I'm definitely the least proficient trombonist and I'm feeling almost in over my head. It's definitely making me really self-conscious when I mess something up in the rehearsals, even with us sight reading basically all the music we run through. I'm considering joining the community orchestra the director also runs and I know that will be the same way, just with more rests. That said, I know the experience of playing in these groups will make me a lot better in the long run and that continuing lessons and practice will too. Since this isn't how I make a living though, it's okay that I'm not good. I'll be fine if I just keep improving.
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Re: Self Evaluation, how good are you at the trombone?

Post by Lamplighter »

I just started playing bass trombone in July, having not played at all for over 3 years, and had never played a horn with an F attachment, let alone a second trigger. I'm playing in a big band, and while clearly the least proficient trombone, I'm steadily improving. I haven't been asked to leave, so at least I am that good. My wife says I'm too much a perfectionist in whatever I'm doing, whether it's painting the bedroom or mowing the yard. I was that way in my career as well, before I retired. So it is a hard for me know. My teacher says I'm making progress. And I'm good enough that I don't play notes when I'm not supposed to and play the ones that are essential, even if I can't quite (yet!) hit every 8th note in the measure at 180 bpm!

I think for me the important thing is not how good am I right now, but that I'm continuing to improve.
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WilliamLang
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Re: Self Evaluation, how good are you at the trombone?

Post by WilliamLang »

I'm ok at trombone, but wish I had known more about the non-trombone side of the industry at a much earlier age.
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Re: Self Evaluation, how good are you at the trombone?

Post by AndrewMeronek »

I'm pretty good at music in general, and at trombone. I feel like I'm still improving, but I also know that I still have inherited that "competitive" mentality from when I was studying music in school, that isn't necessarily all that healthy. That said, of any particular aspect of my trombone skills that I have, even of those which I think I'm pretty good at, I can point to many trombonists just around the Detroit area that are better than me with a particular skill.

The thing I feel I'm probably best at: intonation. I don't think I have the best ear - it's decent but definitely not the "best" - but because I've dedicated a lot of my own time to studying microtonality. More than a lot of my peers.

The thing I'm probably worst at: triple-tonguing. I've always had a hard time with it and I have to work it constantly just to maintain a basic level of competency where many of my peers just can do it effortlessly.

I also am really just a "part-time" musician, who pays the bills with a "day job", so at least right now I'll never really have that edge that comes from being able to focus only on a music career all day.
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Re: Self Evaluation, how good are you at the trombone?

Post by BrassSection »

Gotta admit if you put music in front of me I’m probably weakest on trombone, compared to euphonium or trumpet. As a side note, I’ve never had an actual “lesson” on a trombone, self taught...as are trumpet, French horn, and tuba. For improv at church, the trombone is probably my favorite horn. Tone and range are fine on the horn, and if there are some other non-guitar players that are above average playing in the group we can play well off of each other. This has included bass guitar, sax, and trumpet, and even occasionally a good drummer. Every ensemble we’ve put together in church with actual music I’ve primarily played trumpet or euph, for some reason I’m just not comfortable with music…but once I played the 2nd trumpet part on my trombone to help a weaker trumpet player get the music figured out during practice, and had no problem doing so. Mostly just a mental thing for me. Bottom line rating on trombone: With music maybe a 4. Without music an 8. I never give myself the highest rating on anything…there’s always room for improvement!
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JohnD
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Re: Self Evaluation, how good are you at the trombone?

Post by JohnD »

Well, no matter what I can play currently, I always will keep striving for more and better.... not a professional, but a maniac :D
Last edited by JohnD on Sun Mar 05, 2023 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Self Evaluation, how good are you at the trombone?

Post by Crazy4Tbone86 »

As long as I can accomplish any of the following, I am happy with my playing:

1. I have improved a piece of music that I am working on.
2. I have improved a particular skill or learned a new skill.
3. I have learned some new music.
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Re: Self Evaluation, how good are you at the trombone?

Post by maherbone »

I used to be "good" in college, but after developing TMJ post wisdom teeth surgery which hindered my ability to practice for hours like I used to, and getting extremely sick my junior year causing me to be bedridden and lose a lot of weight/breathing issues, that all changed. The idea of grad school went out the window and I didn't feel like myself again until maybe 2 years after I graduated. By that point I needed a job so went into the corporate world and have been stuck there for years. Now I'm finally getting back into music and I couldn't be happier. Right now I just want to get back to where I was in college, and then progress from there. I'm not sure my end goal but I'm enjoying the process right now and feel musically rejuvinated.
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spencercarran
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Re: Self Evaluation, how good are you at the trombone?

Post by spencercarran »

In the settings I play - mostly community groups - I am, at least, not so bad that the rest of the musicians get openly annoyed with me.
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Ozzlefinch
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Re: Self Evaluation, how good are you at the trombone?

Post by Ozzlefinch »

I'm extraordinarily average on my best days. I can play decently enough for local community bands and the annual Easter and Christmas pageants. That's the limit of my skill. I am trying to learn more theory and improve my tone and accuracy. I doubt that I will ever be at a pro or semi-pro level, so I just focus on having fun and enjoying my musical journey.
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Re: Self Evaluation, how good are you at the trombone?

Post by MrHCinDE »

I’m good enough to play anything I’ve encountered at the decent local community orchestra and other ensembles but am susceptible to frequent brain farts, at least one or two horrendously split notes per gig and some questionable tuning at ppp-pp or ff-fff.

I’ve improved my musicality, sound, range and endurance quite a bit in the past couple of years. When I sub in other groups quite often people who don’t know me ask if I studied at music college, which I didn’t and would never compare myself with those who did. When everything clicks and I’m fully concentrating, I can make music I’m reasonably pleased with, which can’t be all that bad as I’m a pretty tough self-critic.

I can triple/quadruple/quintuple (alto, tenor, bass, euphonium/tenorhorn, tuba) in the same gig which I suppose is a pretty handy skill. I would probably have been a better player on one instrument if I’d focussed entirely on it, no regrets though, I’ve probably had more fun playing all sorts of instruments in varied groups than I would have had reaching the last few % of my potential if I’d focussed entirely on one instrument.
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Re: Self Evaluation, how good are you at the trombone?

Post by TrryReynolds »

I’d like to improve every day, and temper my self/evaluation so that I can work one one thing at a time, but the truth is, my self-evaluation is subject to change day by day, hour by hour and phrase by phrase😳😂
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