Arrows in Cherry excerpts

[harrisonreed]

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Here is a sample showing arrows in the Cherry excerpts for orchestra. Whoever annotated the parts put them everywhere, and I'm trying to figure out what they were supposed to indicate to the performer. Mostly the annotations in the parts are welcome, but the arrows are puzzling to me. Sometimes the arrow goes up, but mostly the arrows point down. I had some ideas, but maybe someone here just knows. I don't use arrows this way on my parts, so when I get the answer I'll probably think "oh, duh".

My ideas:

1. Arrow indicates the ictus of the conductor. Mostly the notes are played with the ictus, indicated by the down arrow. But sometimes the conductor gets a little crazy so you play slightly after the ictus (up arrow). If that's the case, these arrows are totally useless to me and I can ignore them.

2. Arrows indicate bringing the pitch up or down based on the chord being played. Looking through the parts, this doesn't really make sense since a lot of them fall on notes that are the root or tonic.

Any ideas?

[Bach5G]

Email the publisher

[GBP]

It is pitch. Those notes in context of being played in the orchestra might be high.

[CalgaryTbone]

My personal parts look much like that - it indicates that the note is a major 3rd or dominant 7th of a chord, and should be played a bit low to sound in tune. Often I'll also have an arrow pointing up to remind me that a note that was just played low for this purpose is now the root or fifth of the chord and needs to be back up in pitch. It's good to have a reminder before you actually play the note so that you're hearing where it needs to sit before the attack, and aren't having to adjust it after the note sounds.

Jim Scott

[harrisonreed]

Ok. Interesting. I wonder why the person was raising or lowering the tonic in a lot of these parts. I do this too, but I don't use arrows. Thanks guys!

[CalgaryTbone]

If it is a tonic that has an upward arrow, then either it is either a reminder to go back to status quo, or it is to match a colleague who is playing the note higher than the trombonist was expecting. I will tell you that the Vancouver Symphony has had a history of great trombone sections - Gordon Cherry, Greg Cox and Doug Sparkes were a fantastic section from the late 70's - the 2000"s, and the new players there are also fabulous players. I know that sometimes I move a note higher or lower than where I hear it to match a colleague that doesn't have a slide to use to adjust that note. Such is life - sometimes tuning is a "do no harm" situation - you find the best place for the circumstances.

Jim Scott

[CalgaryTbone]

Sorry, a quick follow up.

We were just playing a New Year's Viennese concert. The Von Suppe - Light Calvalry Overture starts with a brass fanfare where the 1st trombone plays a series of C sharps in the first entrance. It starts as an A major chord so I marked the entrance with a downward arrow to remind me to play those notes a bit lower. Then it becomes an F# minor chord, followed by a C# major(?) chord (sorry, I don't have a score, and don't remember exactly). Anyway, the C# is no longer a major 3rd, and needs to sit higher, so I marked an upward arrow to remind me to move back to regular 2nd position. Anyway, the point is that the chords "rang", and sometimes an upward arrow is just a reminder to play the note higher than where you just played it, or where it was in a previous entrance.There aren't too many times where a player needs to play higher than "tuner pitch", so sometimes an upward arrow is just a reminder to go back to status quo. No matter what, listening to where you fit with your colleagues is a must.

Jim Scott

[harrisonreed]

FWIW one of the parts had all the positions written in for the alto trombone ... So...

That all makes sense though! I mark intonation for pitches within chords as well, but don't use arrows like that. I figured that was what it was.

[CalgaryTbone]

Alto positions written in - I can relate. Some of us of a "certain age" started using altos later in our careers. Learning that horn "on the job" provides challenges. I still sometimes write a reminder when there are a couple of tricky intervals, or a non-intuitive spelling like E or B sharp.