Plunger with a Bass Trombone

[Tromboned]

Greetings Trombone Chat Forum. I double on bass trombone and I was sitting in with a new jazz band last night as a sub. We were playing a piece with plungers mutes. As I was reading along, I came across some low Eb's and D's. Does anyone have a tip for hitting those notes when both hands are occupied? I just played them an octave up but I wanted to see if there are any tricks from people much more experienced at this than I am.

[Jimprindle]

1st laugh out loud with your section players that some idiot arranger doesn't get it

2nd I just do it with dynamics, super soft for the closed notes, louder for the open. Like the doo-wah singers of the 1950's

[imsevimse]

This is the trick you ask for: You have to do them as fake notes. Other names of that technique is factitious notes, falsett notes or false notes. You find them on the straight horn one position lower than the high octave. E-flat is on 4:th, D on 5th and D-flat on 6th.

I've heard great plunger playing by Sven Larsson in close up where he used those notes with a plunger. Before the use of the double valve bass trombone many players knew about this technique to play the low C on T2 and B on T3 (most practical use). Both notes can be found also on the straight horn. You just go on. After D-flat on 6:th the C is on 7:th and then we have the possibility to force a B on a raised 6:th. That B is a bit harder, but down to C everything is good. If you study this technique alot until you get this then to add a plunger is possible. Unfortunately this takes time to learn for most people. I've studied them since 1982 and it is not until recently I begin to master them as to use them in every day situations.

This is the only possible method to solve that puzzle. All other tricks will fail (or you do not use the plunger as you should).

/Tom

[BGuttman]

Jim has the most practical solution. Here are a few other ideas:

1. Attach some fishing line to the trigger so you can pull it with your left hand at the bell.

2. Develop your falset tones so you don't need the valve for Eb, D, and Db.

3. Clamp the plunger to your stand and point you bell toward and away from it as needed.

[JohnL]

3. Clamp the plunger to your stand and point you bell toward and away from it as needed.

Even better, grab an old Hamilton folding stand and rig a way to attach the plunger to it. I've seen pictures of big bands back in the swing era where the trombones and trumpets did the same sort of thing with their derby (hat) mutes.

[Burgerbob]

1st laugh out loud with your section players that some idiot arranger doesn't get it

2nd I just do it with dynamics, super soft for the closed notes, louder for the open. Like the doo-wah singers of the 1950's

Yup. No need to MacGyver a solution for someone's bad writing.

[JohnL]

1st laugh out loud with your section players that some idiot arranger doesn't get it

2nd I just do it with dynamics, super soft for the closed notes, louder for the open. Like the doo-wah singers of the 1950's

Yup. No need to MacGyver a solution for someone's bad writing.

To allow one's musical vision to be thwarted by something as pedestrian - nay, plebian - as the bass trombonist being possessed of but two hands? Why, that is blasphemy, sir. Absolute, utter blasphemy of the vilest stripe!

But realistically, I usually figure plunger effects are partly visual. The groundlings need to SEE the plunger work.

[baileyman]

... I just do it with dynamics, super soft for the closed notes, louder for the open. Like the doo-wah singers of the 1950's

This is right. Plunger sounds dopey on a bass trombone unless it's one of the very few with a bright tone quality, else there's no timbre to change with the plunger. Just ghost the plunged notes and inflections.

[imsevimse]

This is right. Plunger sounds dopey on a bass trombone unless it's one of the very few with a bright tone quality, else there's no timbre to change with the plunger. Just ghost the plunged notes and inflections.

This can be true if the bass trombone player can not do better. Often the plunger is to small, then buy a bigger plunger. There are larger plungers made to fit a bass bell better.

Play any mute with air, also a plunger. Often there is a belif that a mute should be to soften playing. This is not right. The mute is mostly used to change the character of the sound. To do that you need to push more air in the mute or else you do not get the same volume as without the mute and the character will not change much, just the nuance will be effected. I do believe some bass trombone players have a sound that is to woofy to be effective with a plunger. A sound that have no core to change? Who would want such a sound? Not me.

To use the plunger on low Eb and other trigger notes? If you can not play the notes as false notes then do what ever you want

If the plunger effects is together with the rest of the section and is a simple "do-wop, do-wop", then you can change the arrangement and play another note maybe the octave. You could even change the chords that the trombones are playing and have the others play something else too. That could work. There are more voicings than one that can fit backgrounds. You can also lean back and skip your part entirely or just move the plunger and let the others take care of the playing. Play only the "do-wop" you can do. If you skip it entirely then look as if you have a pause and dig a solo with a great smile. Never tell anyone you can't play that "do-wop". Plunger effects are visual as all performances are. Either you are seen by an audience or by your section mates. It is important you do something that looks good or else some will ask why you are making such a strange appearance. If you tell there is a problem at a particular "do-wop" then everybody will listen especially for this problem, maybe EVERY time. Is this what you want?

If you are a professional you will solve the problem and still get the next call The only choice you have to do it right is with false notes. Work 30 years on your false notes.The plunger will make it more difficult because the balance to hold the horn needs the emboushure to be even stronger.

This is how I practice false notes.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source ... O_U5VCRMix

/Tom

[afugate]

This is how I practice false notes.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source ... O_U5VCRMix

/Tom

30 years of practice makes that sound so easy and lush!

--Andy in OKC

[ssking2b]

When you get to the big time, simply have your assistant fan the plunger as needed in front of your bell!

Seriously - fake tones, do-wop syllables, half valve articulations, change octaves - you do what you have to do. Then you send a note to the arranger and let him know you don't have 3 arms, and advise him to read the Henry Mancinni book on arranging which completely explains the ranges and technical limits of the bass trombone ( as well as almost all other instruments). None of it will do you any good, since many erstwhile arrangers know our instrument better than we do, but it feels good to vent!