This may be a daft question... but is first position with the slide completely shut? And if so, how do you avoid knocking your teeth out at high speed?
(I accept the answer may just be "practice more")
First position
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ttf_anonymous
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ttf_BGuttman
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First position
Many of us adjust the tuning slide so that 1st is just a little out of completely closed. This can allow adjustments like for D above the bass staff which usually needs to be shortened.
Another choice is to have springs mounted on the slide. Conn and King had them on the large bore instruments. Many players take the springs off, but they can cushion the blow if you are really whonking the slide home into first.
Also, make sure the felt or rubber bumper on the end of the slide (under the cork barrel) is in good shape. It also acts as a cushion when you pull the slide in all the way.
Why are you pulling into first so hard?
Another choice is to have springs mounted on the slide. Conn and King had them on the large bore instruments. Many players take the springs off, but they can cushion the blow if you are really whonking the slide home into first.
Also, make sure the felt or rubber bumper on the end of the slide (under the cork barrel) is in good shape. It also acts as a cushion when you pull the slide in all the way.
Why are you pulling into first so hard?
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ttf_tanstaafl
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First position
I can't see a felt or rubber bumper under there. Maybe that's why it's thudding a bit?
It's an Antoine Courtois... best not stuff something down the gap though. I think it's just habit and my teacher is making me play faster than I'm used to!
It's an Antoine Courtois... best not stuff something down the gap though. I think it's just habit and my teacher is making me play faster than I'm used to!
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ttf_BGuttman
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First position
You can avoid a lot of those slams if you learn some common alternate positions: Bb in sharp 5th, D in 4th, F in sharp 4th, and low Bb in T3 (if you have an F-attachment).
Next time you visit a Tech, ask if the bumpers need to be replaced.
Next time you visit a Tech, ask if the bumpers need to be replaced.
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ttf_Graham Martin
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First position
Most people do not tune their trombone with the slide completely shut. Apart from anything else, some notes on most trombones need to be sharper than the normal Bb tuning note. The normal practice, with the slide about 1/2" from closed, was best explained in this diagram by Erling Kroner, an old forum friend who is no longer with us.
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ttf_BillO
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First position
Hmmm, my Fs are only a tiny tad sharp compared to 'tuning' Bb as first position, nothing I usually need to worry about. However the first one is not both sharp and flat like shown in the diagram. What explains that?
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ttf_robcat2075
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First position
Quote from: tanstaafl on Dec 12, 2016, 12:01PM... how do you avoid knocking your teeth out at high speed?
Even with tuning so 1st is slightly out, a good part of it is learning to put the slide at first position rather than sliding until can go no further. You have to place all the others without a hard stop, you do that with 1st also.
Even with tuning so 1st is slightly out, a good part of it is learning to put the slide at first position rather than sliding until can go no further. You have to place all the others without a hard stop, you do that with 1st also.
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ttf_harrison.t.reed
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First position
Quote from: BillO on Dec 13, 2016, 09:15AMHmmm, my Fs are only a tiny tad sharp compared to 'tuning' Bb as first position, nothing I usually need to worry about. However the first one is not both sharp and flat like shown in the diagram. What explains that?
Instruments are designed in such a way so that where the notes fall can be changed by fiddling with the acoustic nodes that are located in different places on the instrument. The overall shape of the instrument, leadpipe, and bracing are just some of the things that affect nodes.
In this way, the adjustments needed for certain notes depends on the design of the instrument. F can be sharp on some, and flat on others.
In my experience, making the decision to play your current gear with the tuning slide nearly 100% closed will teach anyone a lot about what the designer was going for and may even fix bad habits their chops have developed. Trying to play any new instrument that you are not familiar with (like a new alto or a small bore tenor if you only ever played an 88H) in this same manner usually will help speed up the adjustment period. Once you learn how far out 1st is (a lot more on small bores and altos than on most large bores), the rest of the positions usually start to be where they are supposed to be in relation to the bell.
The 36H alto is a great example. Tune the Eb to a closed 1st position and the rest of the slide will not make sense. Tune Db to be at the bell (ie, close the tuning slide) and suddenly everything works properly. And it's not a big deal that 1st is an inch out.
A 3B is the same. Tune Ab at the bell (for me this is with the tuning slide out about a half a centimeter) and suddenly everything makes sense except 1st position. Until you realize that now you can pull in for Ab in 1st and use slide vibrato there too. Then you feel like thanking the designer of the 3B for knowing what was up.
If you have an F attachment, you can now actually tune that to a closed 1st position and have a true low C as well, rather than the common "F in first is too flat to use" baloney.
Instruments are designed in such a way so that where the notes fall can be changed by fiddling with the acoustic nodes that are located in different places on the instrument. The overall shape of the instrument, leadpipe, and bracing are just some of the things that affect nodes.
In this way, the adjustments needed for certain notes depends on the design of the instrument. F can be sharp on some, and flat on others.
In my experience, making the decision to play your current gear with the tuning slide nearly 100% closed will teach anyone a lot about what the designer was going for and may even fix bad habits their chops have developed. Trying to play any new instrument that you are not familiar with (like a new alto or a small bore tenor if you only ever played an 88H) in this same manner usually will help speed up the adjustment period. Once you learn how far out 1st is (a lot more on small bores and altos than on most large bores), the rest of the positions usually start to be where they are supposed to be in relation to the bell.
The 36H alto is a great example. Tune the Eb to a closed 1st position and the rest of the slide will not make sense. Tune Db to be at the bell (ie, close the tuning slide) and suddenly everything works properly. And it's not a big deal that 1st is an inch out.
A 3B is the same. Tune Ab at the bell (for me this is with the tuning slide out about a half a centimeter) and suddenly everything makes sense except 1st position. Until you realize that now you can pull in for Ab in 1st and use slide vibrato there too. Then you feel like thanking the designer of the 3B for knowing what was up.
If you have an F attachment, you can now actually tune that to a closed 1st position and have a true low C as well, rather than the common "F in first is too flat to use" baloney.
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ttf_anonymous
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First position
...I don't see how this is possible, but I do see your concern; I knocked my own tooth out with this thing a few months ago, and not even during suicides.
If your slide moves that fast (If it does, could you tell me your secret?), be sure not to slam the slide to first when you're playing, and you should be fine.
You shouldn't really have a problem; your lips are a little tight playing the trombone, which provides a cushion whilst changing positions. Or this may just be me, I have to adjust my embouchure a little differently because my mouth is positioned weirdly, so I don't know if this is the same for everyone else...
If your slide moves that fast (If it does, could you tell me your secret?), be sure not to slam the slide to first when you're playing, and you should be fine.
You shouldn't really have a problem; your lips are a little tight playing the trombone, which provides a cushion whilst changing positions. Or this may just be me, I have to adjust my embouchure a little differently because my mouth is positioned weirdly, so I don't know if this is the same for everyone else...
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ttf_anonymous
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First position
Quote from: Graham Martin on Dec 12, 2016, 03:14PM The normal practice, with the slide about 1/2" from closed, was best explained in this diagram by Erling Kroner, an old forum friend who is no longer with us.
I stumbled upon this years ago, and its treated me very well in the interim.
I stumbled upon this years ago, and its treated me very well in the interim.
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ttf_anonymous
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First position
Quote from: Graham Martin on Dec 12, 2016, 03:14PM The normal practice, with the slide about 1/2" from closed, was best explained in this diagram by Erling Kroner, an old forum friend who is no longer with us.
I stumbled upon this years ago, and its treated me very well in the interim.
I stumbled upon this years ago, and its treated me very well in the interim.