Electronic effects live through the PA

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Harpcat
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Electronic effects live through the PA

Post by Harpcat » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:48 pm

Anyone using effects such as autowah, flangers, etc. for live performance? What's working for you?
Thanks!
SaigonSlide
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Re: Electronic effects live through the PA

Post by SaigonSlide » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:05 am

I'm experimenting with this now. I use a Yamaha Silent Brass mute + effects module. If you're not familiar with it you can design different sounds and save them. There are about 50 presets that you can modify if you like. I mostly use a distorted sound, and a synth-y one. I also have a wah pedal, and a Ditto looper. I send output to guitar amplifier. So far so good. The silent brass is nice because it completely cuts out any 'normal' sound of the trombone, so virtually anything that is produced sounds like the effect w/o any acoustic bleed. However, the mute itself is bulky and a bit clunky so you have to be careful with it. I also have a stand alone mic that I use w/o effects, so I can use plunger, etc. I'm definitely still learning about all this. WOuld love to hear what others use.
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Re: Electronic effects live through the PA

Post by JLivi » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:08 pm

I have a small board, but I use the following:

Voco Loco (effects loop switcher brings mic level to line level)
Crybaby mini wah
micro POG
MXR carbon copy

Here's my route
Microphone > Voco Loco > mini wah > POG > Carbon Copy > Voco Loco (patch cable) > PA
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RMCarson
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Re: Electronic effects live through the PA

Post by RMCarson » Sun May 05, 2019 9:23 pm

Thanks. What brand and model of microphone? I would appreciate brands and models on the others, as well.

Would it work on a bass amp?
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Re: Electronic effects live through the PA

Post by JLivi » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:05 am

RMCarson wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 9:23 pm
Thanks. What brand and model of microphone? I would appreciate brands and models on the others, as well.

Would it work on a bass amp?
Not sure if it will work with a bass amp, but a simple Shure SM57 is fine for effects. You don’t need anything too crazy. I know some horn players prefer a clip on on microphone with effects. So I would recommend either the Shure Beta 98H/C or the Audio Technica PRO 35. I just recently spent time on the entry level Shure clip on and it’s not great, but probably good enough for a live show.

Were you asking for recording with effects or playing live?
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Nhtrombone
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Re: Electronic effects live through the PA

Post by Nhtrombone » Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:55 pm

Effects are tough if you’re only playing through one channel when playing live . The engineer is likely mixing to your live sound which may not be coming through the pa all that much so the effects may get lost. Mark Mullins in Bonerama plays through two channels - one for straight trombone and another with a mic to a pedal board and through a fender guitar amp which is mic’d. Recording almost anything is possible.
walldaja
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Re: Electronic effects live through the PA

Post by walldaja » Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:37 pm

Bass amp should be perfect to play through, pretty much the same note range between a trombone and a bass guitar. I heard Rick Braun play (yes, the trumpet one) and he used effects quite a bit. He was playing in a smaller venue and I suspect he had the effects turned up pretty high to compensate for the sound coming out of his horn.
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Bluesfish
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Re: Electronic effects live through the PA

Post by Bluesfish » Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:11 pm

I used to use a Sure mic that could switch between low and high impedance, plugged into a Zoom programmable guitar effects pedal and the pedal went to the board.
slidewriter
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Re: Electronic effects live through the PA

Post by slidewriter » Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:04 pm

Anyone have any videos of their playing with effects? I'm starting to explore the pedal world and would like hear what others are doing. Recently bought an EH4800 phaser and liking it so far.
SaigonSlide
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Re: Electronic effects live through the PA

Post by SaigonSlide » Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:13 pm

I've continued to go down this rabbit hole...i now use an Eventide Mixing Link to brink to line level, which is a really nice pedal/preamp designed specifically for horn players using guitar pedals. You can also splice in other instruments into it, and use it has a small mixer. I use mainly loop pedals, delays and reverbs, and i got an old wireless Pro-35 clip on. WOrks ok but i actually think a standard dynamic mic sounds better. I use bass amp at home for practice, but keyboard amp sounds so much better IMO. Plus you can use two channels and mix them if need be.
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Re: Electronic effects live through the PA

Post by bbocaner » Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:18 am

I played a piece on baritone that required a delay/echo effect. I used a Sennheiser clip-on condenser mic with a wireless transmitter pack. The wireless receiver had the option of a balanced line-level out or a mic-level out, so I set it to do line-level and found a T.C. Electronic delay pedal which was designed for a guitar-level signal, but also had the option to accept a balanced TRS 1/4" line-level signal. I came out of that in stereo into a pair of self-powered JBL EON PA speakers. The whole setup worked really well! While you can make things work with guitar effects, they are expecting a high-impedance low-level signal from a guitar. This introduces noise and can get you a thin sound. It's better if you can find effects that are designed either for use with microphones or at line level and use a preamp of some kind before your effects.

Saigonslide - the Eventide Mixing Link box you posted about looks PERFECT for achieving this!
SaigonSlide
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Re: Electronic effects live through the PA

Post by SaigonSlide » Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:59 pm

Options are mixing link, voco loco, zorg effects Blow!, and maybe DIY fix. So many variables come into it when you begin the process.
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Re: Electronic effects live through the PA

Post by ssking2b » Fri May 01, 2020 9:58 am

I have used a pedal board with a variety of effects on it since the early 2000's . I use an AKG bell mic wireless to the pedal board, and then out to a Pevey keyboard amp. It works great! I then Mic the Pevey amp on stage which works a lot better than depending on the sound person. They will generally let a mic-ed amp on stage do anything, but seem to want to behead any horn players they can. Rarely, you get work with a sound person who has a concept of what is going on with acoustic instruments, and that's a treat. Mostly these days I seem to suffer from sound people who only care about how loud and over-produced that can make the sound.
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Kingfan
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Re: Electronic effects live through the PA

Post by Kingfan » Fri May 01, 2020 11:32 am

An early adopter of electronic effects for brass was Don Ellis on trumpet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0hR-HASR6Y. This is from 1970, a double album Live At Fillmore. Don't ask me how he did it!
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are still missing! :D
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Bach5G
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Re: Electronic effects live through the PA

Post by Bach5G » Fri May 01, 2020 11:49 am

It’s amazing to me from this perspective (2020) that the Don Ellis band was so popular. I recall the liner notes to this album referring to a “ring modulator“ that Don used at that concert.

My Alexa couldn’t find the album. Don seems to be largely forgotten now.
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Kingfan
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Re: Electronic effects live through the PA

Post by Kingfan » Fri May 01, 2020 9:19 pm

Bach5G wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 11:49 am
It’s amazing to me from this perspective (2020) that the Don Ellis band was so popular. I recall the liner notes to this album referring to a “ring modulator“ that Don used at that concert.

My Alexa couldn’t find the album. Don seems to be largely forgotten now.
I still have the album. From the liner notes: "... electraphonic trumpet with a Ring Modulator and some octave doublings"... "The effects are all done on a solo trumpet using a Ring Modulator and various echo and amplifying devices." Some of the charts can be found on Youtube.
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are still missing! :D
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quiethorn
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Re: Electronic effects live through the PA

Post by quiethorn » Fri May 01, 2020 11:09 pm

Live in gigs, not much. Live at home, yes, improvised trombone with live electronics is a large part of what I do. See here:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... hO8oYqLcbg

Forget pedals: I've moved onto tape delays with old handheld cassette recorders :biggrin:
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Re: Electronic effects live through the PA

Post by quiethorn » Fri May 01, 2020 11:31 pm

Also, not trombone, but as far as brass players, Jon Hassell has been around forever and has the most tasteful, individualistic use of live electronics I've ever heard. I've modeled a lot of my playing after his, consciously and unconsciously.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7IRnin9gF0
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