Valve Oil

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Geordie
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Valve Oil

Post by Geordie » Wed May 23, 2018 12:07 pm

Not wishing to replicate the great slide lube debates, I have acquired a King valve trombone and was wondering what valve oil/lubes you might recommend.
Life is not a rehearsal
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BGuttman
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Re: Valve Oil

Post by BGuttman » Wed May 23, 2018 12:31 pm

I like Blue Juice for my Euph.

UltraPure also works well.

For years we used to use Al Cass.

Lots of good products out there.
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
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ghmerrill
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Re: Valve Oil

Post by ghmerrill » Wed May 23, 2018 12:44 pm

I use only Yamaha Synthetic valve oils for my euph and tuba valves. It comes in different viscosities to accommodate tighter/looser/more worn valves. I use the light version for my Mack Brass euphonium and Wessex tuba, and for lubricating spindles on rotary valves. I use the regular or vintage on my 1924 Buescher horn. I love the Yamaha stuff. It's odorless, tasteless and seems to last for a decent time.

Many people adore Blue Juice. I can't use it mostly because the smell makes me want to puke. I don't even like sitting beside someone who's applying it. I've tried a wide variety of oils (including things like mixing my own from things like ultra-refined lamp oil), but for me the Yamaha is absolutely the best.

Just pick one you like and go with it. Then maybe try another if you aren't completely happy. If you do change, it can be very important to thoroughly clean off/out the old one before applying the new one. Some of them don't play well together.
Gary Merrill
Wessex EEb Bass tuba
Mack Brass Compensating Euph
Amati Oval Euph
1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba
Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K9/112 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)
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FeelMyRath
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Re: Valve Oil

Post by FeelMyRath » Wed May 23, 2018 1:30 pm

I use Al Cass or Holton Electric Valve Oil on my Euph, trumpet and cornet as well as in my Hagmann valve. I can't stand Blue Juice as it stinks and leaves a horrible residue in the valve casing. When I bought my euph (2nd hand) I gave the valves and casings a good clean and they were covered in a blue stain (there was a bottle of the evil Blue Juice in the case). That went straight in the bin.
Making the world better, one note at a time

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ghmerrill
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Re: Valve Oil

Post by ghmerrill » Wed May 23, 2018 2:41 pm

There have been extensive discussions of valve oil and related topics on Dave Werden's forum. It seems pretty clear to everyone involved in those that one of the variables is body chemistry and it's interaction with particular oils or types of oils. It also seems coupled (at least some evidence suggests this) with the chemistry/metallurgy of the instrument involved. This is why you see such wildly different results for the same valve oil across different players and instruments. So something that works absolutely fantastically for one person may well be a total mess for another.
Gary Merrill
Wessex EEb Bass tuba
Mack Brass Compensating Euph
Amati Oval Euph
1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba
Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K9/112 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)
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nbulgarino
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Re: Valve Oil

Post by nbulgarino » Sat May 26, 2018 4:06 pm

Personally, I like Hetman oils for my valve instruments. I used the number 3 for euph valves and number 2 for valve trombone. Ghmerrill brings up a good point about how the instruemnt’s chemistry effects the oil’s performance. I’d add to that saying your personal acidity of your saliva also has a lot to do with performance of those oils. That’s a debate we had on the trombone forum in regards to Yamaha vs slide-o-mix vs everything else. You jus gotta ten and see what you like.
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ghmerrill
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Re: Valve Oil

Post by ghmerrill » Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:12 am

nbulgarino wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 4:06 pm
Personally, I like Hetman oils for my valve instruments.
Hetman oils are a good example of the wild variability (at least in the tuba and euphonium world) of results people report. Some people absolutely love them and wouldn't think of using anything else. Others report weird, almost science-fictionish results of using Hetman products in their instruments (in terms of residues or "gunks" that form: strange colors, odd consistencies, etc.).

I stay away from the Hetman oils, but I do use the Hetman Hydro-Slide in my water bottle and it seems to work well with no scary effects.
Gary Merrill
Wessex EEb Bass tuba
Mack Brass Compensating Euph
Amati Oval Euph
1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba
Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K9/112 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)
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Geordie
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Re: Valve Oil

Post by Geordie » Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:03 pm

Useful comments, thanks. I’m going with ultra-pure and will see how it goes.
Life is not a rehearsal
SimmonsTrombone
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Re: Valve Oil

Post by SimmonsTrombone » Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:19 am

I’ve been using lamp oil from Walmart on my piston tuba valves. Works well and is so cheap I use plenty. Mine was about $3.50 for 32 ounces. There are no detergents, but be sure to get unscented.
timothy42b
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Re: Valve Oil

Post by timothy42b » Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:51 am

SimmonsTrombone wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:19 am
I’ve been using lamp oil from Walmart on my piston tuba valves. Works well and is so cheap I use plenty. Mine was about $3.50 for 32 ounces. There are no detergents, but be sure to get unscented.
There's been some discussion on the tuba forum about lamp oil and there are some strong supporters. I haven't tried it.

I think the mistake I made when I played valves was to not use enough oil. With slide lube, too much is bad. With valves, tuba players at least recommend much more liberal (and often) application.

I did notice on my wife's trumpet if I didn't get all the old oil off with mineral spirits the new oil didn't do any good. Old oil seems to form deposits or something.
LarryPrestonRoberson
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Re: Valve Oil

Post by LarryPrestonRoberson » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:05 am

Regardless if it's a new acquisition or a horn that you've owned for years, it's a good idea to clean the instrument when changing valve oils. Or at the very least, clean the valves and casings. This is a particular consideration when going from traditional valve oils (e.g. petroleum distillates) to synthetic based oils and vice versa. Otherwise, the valves will likely gunk up.

One of the resident chemists, such Bruce Guttman, can give a more scientific explanation. But, I know it is not a good combination.
Bonearzt
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Re: Valve Oil

Post by Bonearzt » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:14 am

A thin valve oil like UltraPure, Al Cass or Hetmans #1 or 2 inside the valve, and a heavier key oil or Hetmans #13 13.5 or 14 on the spindle.


Eric
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ghmerrill
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Re: Valve Oil

Post by ghmerrill » Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:59 pm

timothy42b wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:51 am

There's been some discussion on the tuba forum about lamp oil and there are some strong supporters. I haven't tried it.
You may notice that the strong proponents of lamp oil (aka ultra pure kerosene) are old guys in my age range. They have strong beliefs about "natural" oils vs. synthetics. They're also of the "you can never oil it enough" school (which is a consequence of their other views because those oils flush off with water a lot faster than synthetic oils). Finally, they like a real low price for their valve oil because (did I say this already?), you can never oil the valves enough.

At least, as an old guy, that's my take on the lamp oil fanatics. :-)
Gary Merrill
Wessex EEb Bass tuba
Mack Brass Compensating Euph
Amati Oval Euph
1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba
Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K9/112 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)
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